A compiled list of what We are learning from Sandy

page: 3
17
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 06:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by hououinkyouma
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 


It's westerners problem. Here in Japan we didn't have loots or this kind of trouble. And the people united and shared what they had, even if it was not much.

Eastern society has a group mentality, while westerners nowadays are almost all ndividualists.
edit on 2-11-2012 by hououinkyouma because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-11-2012 by hououinkyouma because: Typing problems


Well the Government seems like ours


Japanese lawmakers earned an average of ¥22.23 million in 2009, down by ¥2.59 million in 2008. Japanese governors earned an average of ¥16.33 million in 2009. The winter bonus for the average central government official was ¥592,000 in 2010, down 8.4 percent from the previous year. The winter bonus for similar local officials was ¥549,500. Many legislators are considered old and out of touch with ordinary voters. They are often seen napping during Parliament sessions. Sometimes, though, sessions get quite rowdy Legislators raise their first and cheer "ganboro," a vow to fight on. Water has been tossed by one legislator at others, scuffles have broken for control of the microphones and fist fights have occurred. The ox walk is a filibuster technique in which legislators walk extremely slowly to the podium to delay voting.

factsanddetails.com...




posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 06:50 PM
link   
wow... i have now read it all...


lets see how do you help 66 MILLION people all at the same time? goodness... people get ugly during a crisis..go out and help your neighbors!!



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:14 PM
link   
I think all gas stations in the country should be required by law to install emergency hand-operated fuel pumps for use in the event of mass power outages. I also think there should be a "privatized" push for businesses to have manual cash registers on-hand for businesses which choose to purchase them to enable them to better capitalize on natural disasters.

I think the federal government should install an emergency program within the welfare system that allows low-income recipients to go to the local welfare office, if feasible, to receive paper vouchers in place of their "cards" for the duration of the emergency and even several days before an anticipated disaster.

I think that all civilized societies should push for each and every building to have its own means of sustainable off-grid energy for at least the purposes of heating/cooling homes and the refrigeration of food.

I also believe a study needs to be undertaken to determine an efficient alternative means to continue monetary transactions optimally under such emergency conditions which does not rely upon civilians keeping cash on-hand in the event of an emergency. Perhaps credit or ATM machines which can be battery operated that allow you to "swipe" and purchase up to a certain amount, which store all transactions locally to be transfered and verified later? Of course, the introduction of such machines would have to come with severe legal and civil penalties for individuals making purchases for things which they know they cannot purchase and other such problems would have to be worked out, but I think it could be done.

Other similar preparations could be made too, which would allow society to function very well in extreme catastrophes, the government need only hire some "doomy-prepers" found throughout the world wide web to come up with some ideas on how to keep the whole thing flowing rather than just as individuals.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 


Last Monday I was on the city bus going to an appointment (I'm in Seattle); and I pulled out of my back pack a small battery operated transistor radio; plugged in my ear phones and tuned in to a station; the driver looked at me, smiled and said that transistor radios are a thing of the past.

I then said that I bet a lot of people back east are using them right now; or they wish they had one right now.

I think that perhaps what a lot of people might of learned is that some of the so-called (old-fashioned) things can come in handy; like transistor radios and pay telephones. Also I think a lot of people learned too that they need to have emergency bags packed and ready at all times.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:51 PM
link   
everybody knew this storm was coming, at least a week to ten days in advance.

why wasn't fema mobilised and set up in the outskirts of the cities.

large fields could have been set up with tents and those famous fema trailers, canteens with warm food, tables, supplies, blankets etc.

at least people could have had a place to go before, during and right after.

i blame the lack of leadership and initiative on fema leaders. i bet they can't move a muscle without going thru 15 chains of command directly to the president.

the head of fema should be the one to make that call, not rely on 10 middlemen to get the o.k. from the president.

he should have had a convoy headed straight to the eastern seaboard as soon as hurricane sandy was designated "frankenstorm".

nothing changes in the u.s., no one gives a crap about anybody else unless they have something to gain or lose from them.
edit on 2-11-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Char-Lee
 


No governments are diferent nowadays. I was talking about normal people.

In the Kobe eartquake the politicians in Japan donated their annual earnings to the victims. But I guess those in power now would never do that.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 08:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by randomname
everybody knew this storm was coming, at least a week to ten days in advance.

why wasn't fema mobilised and set up in the outskirts of the cities.

large fields could have been set up with tents and those famous fema trailers, canteens with warm food, tables, supplies, blankets etc.

at least people could have had a place to go before, during and right after.

i blame the lack of leadership and initiative on fema leaders. i bet they can't move a muscle without going thru 15 chains of command directly to the president.

the head of fema should be the one to make that call, not rely on 10 middlemen to get the o.k. from the president.

he should have had a convoy headed straight to the eastern seaboard as soon as hurricane sandy was designated "frankenstorm".

nothing changes in the u.s., no one gives a crap about anybody else unless they have something to gain or lose from them.
edit on 2-11-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)


The city opened hundreds of shelters I just don't see all the bad stuff the official sources have done that everyone is angry about. A disaster is never going to run smoothly!



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 08:16 PM
link   
For days before the incident they were warning people that it was coming and to stock up.

On this site it was downplayed and was even considered a conspiracy by at least one post and we should
wonder what they were trying to sneak by us.

While it's true the government is slow to act to help after an incident like this....

IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB NOR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE YOUR SAFETY !

It is YOUR job to ensure your families safety. If you leave your life in their hands, you deserve what you get.

It does not matter where you live, you can prepare. It is just different depending on your location.

One person wondered how you have a generator if you lived on the 30th floor. Honda makes an excellent VERY small one that is the size of a small suitcase, weighs about 30 lbs, and is extremely quiet. It is plenty to run your refrigerator, charge phones or whatever. It uses 1/2 gallon in about 9 hours of fuel.
Honda

They make bathtub bladders that you lay in the bathtub and fill with water (before the storm hits, like when they warn you for instance)

And you can store enough food for a couple weeks if you buy pasta, beans, rice for fairly cheap and it will fit in 2 large suitcases which you can slide under a bed.

There are millions of excuses why you couldn't prepare but none are valid.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 08:45 PM
link   
I learned that peoples "normalcy bias" can be very high. They can be told to be prepared all you want. Many people simply think that it won't happen to them simply because it never has.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:26 PM
link   
How about this idea (and I am know I am a bit of an idealist but someone has to be. lol)
What about what I saw one Doomsday prepper doing called Armageddon Inn. She has prepped for 30 yrs for 1000 people!
Now I know that we are looking at a much shorter time frame but even saving a few is better than none at all.

Well how about block leader ; these people would the one everyone knows. That person if poor, calls a bank of preper warehouse that is donated. If rich AND altruistic. (Told you it was idealistic.)

And that person say, looks after the food and mylar blankets for that block.
Maybe we can someone visit that person who oversees say 20 blocks.
Like a pyramid scheme. And the pyramid leader could be a prepper and survivalist expert and has already assessed what emergencies could hit their local area and advise the Block leaders, with meetings or just leaflets.

It could be charity based or not. Donations could be individual or some rich person's philantropist hobby?
It could even be like a Christmas scheme, put a dollar or more in a week and someone looks out for your emergency needs. (FEMA isn't .)

Make a list of what a block would need for say three weeks or one month.
Then get water bladders for those who can't afford it=Water (check)
Cheap food noodles/rice and tuna/meatballs. IDK what is cheap in US but that is what the Block leaders could work out.


I didn't have central heatring as a kid, and we were so poor that in one year it was so cold we had to sleep under our wool coats as we run out of blankets. And another time we all had to sleep in the front room next to the gas fire.

So I have been poor and we got through the 1976? Winter of Discontent and the 3 day week and the electricity blackouts and the heatwave that year, with the resulting standpipes and baths in the sink, and then the dustbin men strikes. That era is what makes me think of ways of how I could help myself in case that happened again, when I grew up.

I know this is so idealistic to be a dream but I like dreaming. And I know it would be open to abuse but that's when you get the neighbours to chose the Block leader (like a neighbourhood watch scheme that actually works right.) And that block leader would be held responsible for the people's lives in that block. He/She would have to be trustworthy and keeps calm in situation, a big Pop/Mamma figure.

Hey it could work.

You also find out what skills people have, like firefighting, ex nurse or seamstress. Garage to store donated clothes, instead of taking clothes to a charity shop, you take them to Block leader to store for emergency.
If your block goes, then you fall back on Pyramid leader.

Tons of ideas but no one to listen to me.
I prep and I camp every year now to keep the off grid ideas alive and well.

Lets pull together, not bitch about who was responsible for Sandy, as I believe that it was God having a joke on TPTB in letting everyone know the 1997 Sandy exercise, and then following it to show people what gits TPTB really are.

As soon as everyone realises that TPTB want you dead anyway they can, the sooner people will not trust the Govt to look after them and start looking after themselves. (And I know I am preaching to mostly the converted.)
But this is where the Block leaders would look after those who don't believe and don't prep.
BUt after Sandy maybe it could catch on.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:41 PM
link   
reply to post by AriesJedi
 


Brillant idea however what saddens us the most living outside of the USA looking in is the lack of humanity; Correct us if our media is wrong.......I'm also hearing some electricians volunteering from innerstate were turned back in some areas of NYC because they did'nt have a union green card. A woman who lost her two little ones screaming for hours for help to save her boys while people watched on and no one lift a finger, Red Cross finally showing up in one devastated area only to hand out dried biscuits, and the list just goes on!

Yes we dealt with a few looters during our Qld floods in early 2011 that devastated 3/4 of a state but everyone pulled together, many volunteers arriving from interstate (with or without a union green card) and from New Zealand to help out. We all banded together and helped out even though Govt agencies lacked in some areas but civilians - many, strangers to the flooded communities, pulled their resources together.

Did the Americans not learn from Hurricane Katrina? If I was caught in any natural disaster, I'd rather be caught up in one any where but the USA!



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:26 PM
link   
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 


How about we add to your list: Some catastrophes are too big to be protected against.

Sometimes the center cannot hold.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 01:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by NotThat
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 


We have learned---
-people won't leave even when told to
-people won't stock up on enough food or water or fuel even when told to
-people will loot/steal if they think they can get away with it
-people will blame the government
-people will threaten/beat up/kill others to get what they want first
-people waiting in lines will become violent
-most people are stupid/ selfish, and impatient

this is exactly the point and real problem especially the last line.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 08:43 AM
link   
reply to post by ABNARTY
 


yeah the non sustainability of large city populations is definitely a concern. i do not think it's at all possible to deliver the needed attention within a large city.

i think a larger forced evac. was in order because if you get the people out ahead of time it gives workers the resources and time needed to make repairs without worrying about rescue work on top of it.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


walking out is always going to be something we can do in an event like this i mean most people, less the elderly and weak/ill, can walk 5-10 miles a day without a problem and would have been better i think, then staying in the flood zones.

reply to post by Char-Lee
 


the warning's were indeed adequate and in a timely manor, what i would have done different is make the argument that these people cannot or will not be able to think for themselves with a storm like this.

then i would have forced them out, well everyone you can find to force out. i think that in itself would have greatly lowered the population that needed to be rescued or taken care of in the flood zone.

reply to post by gnosticagnostic
 


you cannot help 11 million people in a city surrounded by water during a hurricane of this proportion. again i wonder why they didn't force evac more people. did they really think they could help that many people in a crisis, heck NYC has enough trouble getting by on a good day.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1
 


hand pump at the gas stations is an excellent idea, that and perhaps hand pumps located throughout the city would be a good idea, although in some cases the water will be un drinkable anyway, it's still a good backup plan for large city's.

makes me think of another thread where the banks are pushing hard for a cashless society and i think it would fail hard because of storms etc. like this. your idea of battery backups on atms is excellent, maybe with a 50 dollar maximum per day, although i do not think many places to spend that money would be available, batter certainly would be an option with it.

reply to post by caladonea
 


you just can't beat a portable transistor radio in times like this because as we have seen cell phones don't work in storm damaged ares as well and they take more power to run and the batteries wear much faster.

reply to post by randomname
 


i think you're right on the money there. we have these agencies who supposedly know how to deal with these situations yet they didn't get anything in place ahead of time. they could have forced everyone in the city to move out of the flood zones which i think is the biggest mistake made. when you look at the logistics of a rescue operation in a city this large you quickly realize it's next to impossible due to the geography and flooding.

force these people out and then you just have the ones that hid from them, far less people and much easier to aid after the storm.

reply to post by mwood
 


i disagree on what's the local govts. job though, i think they should have taken a more aggressive approach and forced more people out. you know NYPD doesn't have a problem harassing their citizens on a regular day, why did they hold back now?
they push around the citizens of NY everyday and when a dangerous storm comes they hit it with kid gloves?

generator is usually not possible in a high rise due to no place to safely exhaust. unless they have a widow ledge or fire escape to set it outside, they're out of luck on that. the water/tub idea is excellent and one i have used many times.

reply to post by AriesJedi
 


great ideas and i believe the real solution to disasters etc. is for communities to pull together. organizing ahead of time and planning would go a long way in making survival possible and even pleasurable in some cases.

i think this is the heart and soul of any communities survival because when it comes down to it, all we have is each other for various reasons. i wonder if NYC residents will be more inclined to do these things post storm.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 08:56 AM
link   
I can remember reading reports as far back as the 60's as to what would happen if a hurricane came into New York.
And you know what, it happened, and after all these years, they did nothing to prepare. Just as many of those reports said would happen, and then you have the hundreds of thousands who refused to evacuate.
And people wonder why we have the mess we have now.
One wonders when folks will wake up.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 08:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Caffeineforge
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 


How about we add to your list: Some catastrophes are too big to be protected against.

Sometimes the center cannot hold.


for certain some things are just too large to contend with in a timely manor. which lends credence to preparation ahead of time. i just wonder if they will learn this or not, probably not.

here's a map of the zone A evacuation, if you look at it it becomes obvious it wasn't nearly enough, they should have moved many more people out of harms way.

commerce.health.state.ny.us...

for some reason i'm only able to locate a map for zone A, but i know they have zone B and C somewhere?



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 08:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by herenow
I can remember reading reports as far back as the 60's as to what would happen if a hurricane came into New York.
And you know what, it happened, and after all these years, they did nothing to prepare. Just as many of those reports said would happen, and then you have the hundreds of thousands who refused to evacuate.
And people wonder why we have the mess we have now.
One wonders when folks will wake up.


anyone who "stays by choice", when in a forced evac area, has forfeited any sympathy from me. i think a lot of people will never forget this storm in NYC and if confronted with this in the future, will just leave lest they have to live in muck without resources or medical attention.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 09:14 AM
link   
some news from the city.

Hurricane Sandy Act II: The Aftermath Puts Government (and Bloomberg) on Trial




Tribeca, one of the wealthiest areas in the city to lose power, is deserted. Its residents, it seems, have the means to flee the city. Meanwhile, officials estimate that 49,000 people are trapped in public housing buildings that lack power. Middle-class residents of Brooklyn, Staten Island and the suburbs ringing New York say they are being forgotten. The mayor's foolish decision to proceed with the New York City Marathon this Sunday is provoking a popular backlash. With only an estimated 50 percent of the area's gas stations working and with wind-chill adjusted temperatures expected to drop below freezing Friday night, Bloomberg is flirting with disaster finance.yahoo.com...


seems to be mirroring much of what has been said here and an interesting comparison which i think leads to a lot of confusion in the reports coming out of the city. if you read the below excerpt you can see that those who have power or never lost it are singing praises for the city's efforts which, when you don't have power loss it's much easier to say everything's ok.


More positive responses, unsurprisingly, came from parts of the city that still have power.

"So far, I think they've done a pretty good job," said Bernard Martin, a 70-year-old retiree who lives in the Bronx and has had power throughout the storm. "I think the mayor's done a good job."

As with so many other issues in the election, Republican and Democratic orthodoxy don't fit reality on the ground. Local government should play the central role in preparing for natural disasters. But their efforts will be pointless unless the federal government funds them.finance.yahoo.com...


as you can see those who lost little will always say how good a job they have done and why not they didn't have to do anything.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 09:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by randomname
everybody knew this storm was coming, at least a week to ten days in advance.

why wasn't fema mobilised and set up in the outskirts of the cities.

large fields could have been set up with tents and those famous fema trailers, canteens with warm food, tables, supplies, blankets etc.

at least people could have had a place to go before, during and right after.



You do realize that had they set all that up before the storm it would have blown away with said storm right?



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 10:08 AM
link   
reply to post by eNumbra
 


It would have been compromised by the storm in any case.

You know, it's easy after a huge disaster of this magnitude to look and see where things failed, but no one could predict just exactly what the outcomes of the storm would be- not even the experts. What they did was weigh what they knew with what they thought would happen, and acted accordingly. No, they didn't get it perfect. But there are enormous risks to making a large population evacuate. So, if they had evacuated people who didn't need to go, there would be a lot of criticism for that too.

I think if we had a crystal ball and could have known exactly how this thing would play out over the whole northeastern parts of the country, a lot of things would have been done differently.

For years, I've believed that it is just sane to keep a pantry of food and some means of backup cooking and water. But, this comes not from a prepper mentality, but from having frequent power outages. You learn.

People will, if they are wise, learn from this experience as well. You can't prepare for every contignecy, but the next time people are told it might be good to be ready to evacuate; or that there might be massive, long term power outages, one can hope that they will be aware of individual responsibility for their own safety and take action.

How do they expect that the Red Cross or FEMA could swoop in and make something this huge okay fast? It's the vastness of the areas affected and the severity of the damage that will prevent solutions from being forthcoming any time soon.





new topics
top topics
 
17
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join