Mig-25 vs SR-71

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Pugachev's cobra............LMAO yeah ok. The F-16 ( GENERAL DYNAMICS not Lockheed ). CG is so off it can't fly without computers. Fun manuever to watch. The F-16 can do it all day long. The Fighting Falcon can SUSTAIN a 9 G turn. Cobra LOL..... Remember the Mig29 was the response to the F-16 . No usefull reason to use this manuever *cobra* other than to thrill the crowd. The SU-37 can do a flip. So what?? It would get shot down by a Cessna Birddog before it finishes. Watch Sean Tucker do his stuff. You will see what a plane can do. Every Air Force can point out its hero pilots. The best of the best. The Sierra Hotel jock of the day. I do believe that the era of the close dog fight has come close to an end. BVR. Shoot first ask later. Shoot em before they even know you are there. BUT, Fighter Pilots to this day INSIST on a gun. Missile or no missile. Its the mentality it takes to do that job. I have a lot of dead friends, especially from the early F-16. Call it the Great Santini syndrom. Who's the best pilot ya ever saw??? Yer lookin at him.

umm dude do you know what would happen if you flying at 50 less metres and this guy does a roll?
you fly by and cant get him he kills you.
period.

The Space Shuttle...........Huge mistake NOW. Time to get rid of it. Rutan proved it can be done cheaply. The wing made it possible. Works like a shuttle cock in badmitton. Pure Genious. On May 13 2004 Space Ship One flew at Mach Mach 2.5 to 64.3 km. And you don't think an SR-71 can do Mach 4????? OMG FORGIVE ME, I JUST ABOUT PEED MY PANTS FROM LAUGHING.

actually the space shuttle does mach 20 during re entry.

The United States won the cold war with the B-2 bomber. End of story. It bankrupted the U.S.S.R. as they could no longer keep up the spending pace. It was litterally a dollar for ruble war. The Berlin Wall fell and it was over.

i dont think it was JUST the b2 thats a bit of a stretch of the truth. it may have been a factor but its still only ONE plane.

They WERE brilliant designers. Great a copying things. They manufactured their own B-29's from captured planes and designed an F-4 from a Revell model kit. We stole from them and they stole from us. They stole nuke design and we stole swing wing. Great trade huh???

yeah i suppose the US didnt steal tech huh?
oh lets just borrow that rocket tech and hey look we can put a man in orbit........yeah really lucky we jumped that far ahead in the tech line.
we give you a supersonic plane idea and we get.....................................................................................................................................hmm dont seem to remeber that we got anything oh well.

american mad dog, give me a site that says america spent trillions on their military, its so not true, buddy, i have read books on tyhis, u know that Winston Churhchill wrote a book on the soviets in 1981, this woman that my mom works for, well, her husband knew him personally, i'm not even lyingm her husband is dead now, but i can still ask her about it, if america spent trillions on the military,than that would roughly equal close to 20% of u're economy, ad with an economy that needs to reach so many demands for its consumer neds(americans buy the most products of any other nationality in the world) u guys would fall into an extremely severe economic recession, wore then that of russia's in 1998

actually, ameica might have survived, but if they did, then i can see what the consequences are, a $1.4 trillion dollar debt, which accounts for 70% of the entire, ENTIRE worldss debt cia.gov...

If I am 50 meters behind someone its to late. Split S or reverse Immelman out of the battle for me. Throttle up, go balistic for altitude. Regain composure after I just peed my flight suit ( hopefully it was a short hop so I dont have on a pee bag ). Call the ACS or AWACS if my head didnt snap off looking for you and get a vector. Get more altitude and airspeed. Take the vector with my new found energy and fire a missile. If that doesn't work switch on hotas to guns and say a prayer that I am a better pilot.

Mach 20 at such a high altitude is no big deal.

Trillions someone says???? Dima??? HELLLLLLL of alot more than 1 or 2......... the mega.

Mig-25? What's all this talk about Mig-25's? Mig-25 vs F-15, who do you take to win? Anyone have the exact number of Mig-25's being shot down? 0 F-15's have been shot down if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by Frosty
Mig-25? What's all this talk about Mig-25's? Mig-25 vs F-15, who do you take to win? Anyone have the exact number of Mig-25's being shot down? 0 F-15's have been shot down if I remember correctly.

There would not even be a battle. The Mig driver if smart would firewall the throttle and run like hell.

yo guys severely underestimate your opponent, a MiG-25 can go to 24, 400 meters, and an F-15 can go to, well, i went to do a google search, and i got results anywhere from 18, 200 to 23, 000, so womewhere in between those numbers, a MiG can go ovr Mach 3 for a period of time, and an F-15 can go Mach 2.5?, or 2.8 i forgot now

so it would be a close fight, plus, the russian MiG is armed with more potenet missiles, AA-6, AA-8, and i think AA-9

Originally posted by Frosty
Mig-25? What's all this talk about Mig-25's? Mig-25 vs F-15, who do you take to win? Anyone have the exact number of Mig-25's being shot down? 0 F-15's have been shot down if I remember correctly.

yeah BUUUT has it been in A2A combat with a mig which is of same tech level and haveing a pilot of same training level?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Frosty
Mig-25? What's all this talk about Mig-25's? Mig-25 vs F-15, who do you take to win? Anyone have the exact number of Mig-25's being shot down? 0 F-15's have been shot down if I remember correctly.

yeah BUUUT has it been in A2A combat with a mig which is of same tech level and haveing a pilot of same training level?

I don't know about either planes losses air to air ( officially ) but I do know that training is a huge part of it. Pilot skill is the most importaint ( as of now ) part of the fighter system, Russian or American. The best pilots are generally not the college educated engineer but the door bell repair man type of person. This is because the engineer has to think about why what he is about to do will work and analyze it. The door bell guy just knows it will work. Some of the best stick and rudder guys only graduated from high school with little further education other than initial pilot training.

Regardless what country you are from, there is a universal respect amongst pilots. Espescially the fighter breed. When you can go head to head with a pilot in the SAME airframe and call it a draw is the only time different aircraft with pilots of the same skill will make a difference.

The Mig25 is an interceptor, hopefully with fire and forget missles on board. The F-15 is a fighter, plain and simple and the newest airframe/powerplant is ballistic and can pull 9g's. Great plane it is. F-15 is the Cadilac of fighters, the F-16 the Ferrari. The Mig25 is a dragster, fast but little else.

The F-15 has never been shot down in an air to air battle. Unless you count Red Flag at Nellis or Top Gun at Fallon aka FighterTown. Then its usually a F-16 that gets the newbie on loan from the squadron or fleet command. Red Flag is on hiatus untill further notice.

[edit on 11/30/2004 by just_a_pilot]

I know an Iraqi MiG-25 scored the first A2A Kill in hte '91 gulf war. Bit embarasing as it also escaped and aoutrun the missile fired at it. THere were some shot down in that war though, but what do you expect with Iraqi's flying them? I mean, they buried them this tiem around.

The F-15 has also been rumoured to be based on a MiG-25 the Americans got, but before you dismiss this as silly because "The Americans don't steal, the Russian do" that really isnt true, the Americans have stole alot of tech, but I doubt this is one of those things. Different roles of the plains and all.

They look similar but the F-15 looks more like a MiG-29 to me as opposed to a 25. I still doubt either design is stolen. And a MiG-29 would win in a dogfight, its not the worlds best dogfighter for no reason. Long Range though, it would loose. Its not *that* hard for a good pilot to dodge long range missile though. Note how the majority of modern wars have been with one side having crap pilots. The Iraqi's trained in crop dusters.

poop, double post. I hate IE.

[edit on 30-11-2004 by Teh_Gerbil]

Originally posted by Frosty
...Anyone have the exact number of Mig-25's being shot down?

I don't know the total, but the US has shot down 3 in Iraq.

The first: 1/19/1991, CPT Richard C Tollini (P / USAF), F-15C, AIM-7
The Second: 1/19/1991, CPT Lawrence E Pitts (P / USAF), F-15C, AIM-7
The third: 12/27/1992, LTC Gary L North (P / USAF), F-16D, AIM-120

Here is the complete list from GW1:
Pilot, service, AC, weapon, victim, country, credits, date

CPT RHORY R DRAEGER(P / USAF), F-15C, AIM-7; MIG-29,Iraq,1, 1/17/1991

LCDR MARK FOX(P / USN), F/A-18, AIM-9M; MIG 21,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT ROBERT E GRAETER(P / USAF), F-15C, AIM-7, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT ROBERT E GRAETER(P / USAF), F-15C, MANEUVER, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT JON K KELK(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-29,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT CHARLES MAGILL(P / USMC), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-29,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

LT NICK MONGILLO(P / USN), F/A-18,US, AIM-9M, MIG 21,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT STEVEN W TATE(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/17/1991

CPT LAWRENCE E PITTS(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-25,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

CPT DAVID S PRATHER(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

CPT CESAR A RODRIGUEZ(P / USAF), F-15C,US, MANEUVER, MIG-29,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

LT DAVID G SVEDEN JR(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

CPT RICHARD C TOLLINI(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-25,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

CPT CRAIG W UNDERHILL(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-29,Iraq, 1, 1/19/1991

CPT RHORY R DRAEGER(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/26/1991

CPT CESAR A RODRIGUEZ(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/26/1991

CPT ANTHONY E SCHIAVI(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/26/1991

CPT JAY T DENNEY(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-9, MIG-23,Iraq, 2, 1/27/1991

CPT BENJAMIN D POWELL(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, F-1 MIRAGE,Iraq, 1, 1/27/1991

CPT BENJAMIN D POWELL(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/27/1991

CPT DONALD S WATROUS(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/28/1991

CPT DAVID G ROSE(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MIG-23,Iraq, 1, 1/29/1991

CPT GREGORY P MASTER(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, IL-76,Iraq, 1, 2/2/1991

LT STUART BROCE(P / USN), F 14A,US, AIM-9M, MI 8,Iraq, 1, 2/6/1991

CPT THOMAS N DIETZ(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-9, MIG 21,Iraq, 2, 2/6/1991

LT ROBERT W HEHEMANN(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-9, SU-25,Iraq, 2, 2/6/1991

CDR RON MCELRAFT(RIO / USN), F 14A,US, AIM-9M, MI 8,Iraq, 1, 2/6/1991

CPT ROBERT R SWAIN JR,(P / USAF), A-10,US, GAU-8, HELICOP,Iraq, 1, 2/6/1991

MAJ RANDY W MAY(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, HELICOP,Iraq, 1, 2/7/1991

CPT ANTHONY R MURPHY(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, SU-22,Iraq, 2, 2/7/1991

COL RICK N PARSONS(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, SU-7,Iraq, 1, 2/7/1991

CPT STEVEN S DINGEE(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MI-8 HIP,Iraq, 0.5, 2/11/1991

CPT MARK T MCKENZIE(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-7, MI-8 HIP,Iraq, 0.5, 2/11/1991

CPT DANIEL B BAKKE(WSO / USAF), F-15E,US, GBU-10, MI-24,Iraq, 1, 2/13/1991

CPT RICHARD T BENNETT(P / USAF), F-15E,US, GBU-10, MI-24,Iraq, 1, 2/13/1991

CPT TODD K SHEEHY(P / USAF), A-10,US, GAU-8, MI-8 HIP,Iraq, 1, 2/15/1991

CPT JOHN T DONESKI(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-9, SU-22,Iraq, 1, 3/20/1991

CPT THOMAS N DIETZ(P / USAF), F-15C,US, AIM-9, SU-22,Iraq, 1, 3/22/1991

LT ROBERT W HEHEMANN(P / USAF), F-15C,US, MANEUVER, PC-9,Iraq, 1, 3/22/1991

LTC GARY L NORTH(P / USAF), F-16D,US, AIM-120, MIG-25,Iraq, 1, 12/27/1992

[edit on 30-11-2004 by engineer]

Its interesting to me that only four on your list are 04 or above.

Originally posted by Teh_Gerbil
The F-15 has also been rumoured to be based on a MiG-25 the Americans got, but before you dismiss this as silly because "The Americans don't steal, the Russian do" that really isnt true, the Americans have stole alot of tech, but I doubt this is one of those things. Different roles of the plains and all.

I believe the F-15 was introduced well before the Mig was stolen not by the US but by a syrian or Iraqi in 76.

Pilot, I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out..you're right. I guess it's a young man's game...

[edit on 30-11-2004 by engineer]

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by Teh_Gerbil
The F-15 has also been rumoured to be based on a MiG-25 the Americans got, but before you dismiss this as silly because "The Americans don't steal, the Russian do" that really isnt true, the Americans have stole alot of tech, but I doubt this is one of those things. Different roles of the plains and all.

I believe the F-15 was introduced well before the Mig was stolen not by the US but by a syrian or Iraqi in 76.

The first Mig25 came from the former USSR courtesy of a fine defector who was given quite a bit of money for the task.....Victor Belenko who stole the plane and gave it to the U.S. in 1976. Here is an exerpt from an interview. Yeah what a *fine* piece of hardware

-- an interview with Victor Belenko, MiG-25 fighter pilot who defected in 1976
"Defense Electronics", Vol 20, No. 6, pg. 102
buy cialis cheap cialisOzman's Laws:
(1) If someone says he will do something "without fail," he won't.
(2) The more people talk on the phone, the less money they make.
(3) People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't.
(4) Pizza always burns the roof of your mouth.
cialis cialis onlineDE: The Soviets seem to have difficulty implementing modern technology.
Would you comment on that?

Belenko: Well, let's talk about aircraft engine lifetime. When I flew the
MiG-25, its engines had a total lifetime of 250 hours.

DE: Is that mean-time-between-failure?

Belenko: No, the engine is finished; it is scrapped.

DE: You mean they pull it out and throw it away, not even overhauling it?

Belenko: That is correct. Overhaul is too expensive.

DE: That is absurdly low by free world standards.

Belenko: I know.
-- an interview with Victor Belenko, MiG-25 fighter pilot who defected in 1976
"Defense Electronics", Vol 20, No. 6, pg. 102

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
... When I flew the MiG-25, its engines had a total lifetime of 250 hours.

Apparently India has had a lot of trouble with the RD-33's on their Mig-29's as well. Here is an excerpt about their experience:

65 x MiG-29 single-seat and 5 x dual-seat trainers with 48 x spare engines (sparing factor of 0.7/aircraft) were delivered between 1986 and 1990 at a total program cost of approximately $600 million that included initial spares and support. These aircraft were the first MiG-29's to ever leave the Soviet Union and were not up to the weapons system standard of those that went later to the Warsaw Pact allies. The aircraft were sent disassembled by sea, and re-assembled, and test flown in India. By 1990 three squadrons were operational. Two Flight Data Ground Processing Units were included to help pilots debrief their utilization of flight controls and systems. Expectations were that single-seat aircraft would fly 15 hours per month (180 hrs/yr) and dual-seat aircraft 20 hours per month (240 hrs/yr).

There were extensive problems encountered in operational and maintenance due to the large number of pre-mature failures of engines, components, and systems. Of the total of 189 engines in service, 139 engines (74%) failed pre-maturely and had been withdraw from service by July 1992, thus effectively shutting down operations. 62 of these engines had not even accomplished 50% of their 300 hours first overhaul point. Thus the desired serviceability showed a steadily decreasing trend.

Since the Indian Air Force received early model Fulcrum A's, some just after the 200th production article, there were quality control deficiencies that resulted in numerous pieces of FOD (foreign object damage) and tools being left behind after final construction inside of the aircraft. Remember that the Fulcrum skeleton is made first and then the skin is riveted over top, in the way aircraft were made in the fifties and sixties in the West. Nuts, bolts, tools, etc. all made their way to the engine bays and inlet ducts and when they were loosened up after accelerations they damaged engines and equipment.

On top of all this, it was discovered that the unique FOD doors on the MiG-29's inlets were not stopping material from getting into the engine ducts. Since the doors retracted "up" into the inlet, debris that was kicked up by the nose wheel lodged on or at the bottom of the door seal and then was ingested into the engine when the door opened during the nose gear lifted off the ground during takeoff.

The Indian Air Force procurement contract was concluded in September 1986, and the first engine was expected to go into overhaul in 1989. However, four engines prematurely came up for overhaul and no repair facility had been prepared. As time went on, 115 of the 122 engines (94%) prematurely failed and had to be re-cycled through engine depots in Russia at great cost. Backlogs were created and only 79 (65%) engines returned on schedule. Even when a regional Indian repair facility was completed in August 1994, the high failure rates continued and the majority of broken engines had to be sent back to Russian depots. Self-sufficiency was achieved in 1994, only after the operations tempo was significantly reduced on a permanent basis. In the process of refurbishing failed engines, the total technical life of most of the engine fleet was effectively reduced from 800 hours / 8 years to 400 hours / 4 years, at a minimum.

www.sci.fi...

yea, every one knows that the RD-33 engine sucks(the enione for the MiG-29), no one really likes it, but i heard that the russian government is going to upgrade their MiGs with better engines

Originally posted by Hawker
I had the pleasure to see it fly in the mid-seventies. You could build that airframe today and pack a "glass cockpit" in it and it would still give our enemies fits.

I was lucky enough to see her fly when I was a kid.(Ill be 22 in feb)....I will NEVER forget that monent...that was decadent beauty never to be matched again!!! I think about it now...and I cry.

I wear a platnium charm of the SR-71 around my neck..I havent taken it off in 4 years!

and as for outfiting her with a glass deck....
**DROOL**

Addressing a few things said here:
"That is why the SR-71 stopped flying over Moscow...."
Perhaps it is because we don't need to fly over Moscow, let alone Russia anymore...they had this great thing...they called it communism...seemed to work out pretty good for them. Oh yeah and we have sattelites that do as good/if not better a job.
"The SR-71 could maneuver to evade a missle..."
Anyone know the turn radius of the SR traveling mach 3+? Think about it, there are no split s's or turning into the missle here
Oh yeah, one more thing....how many SR's have been shot down, but anything? This isn't exactly the U-2 (slow) here. Think about it. Any arguments?
-ElRoy

F15 wins from Mig 25 if its in AA mode. Unless its a high speed fight.. If it wants to bomb. The mig 25 will win in most situations.

The turn radius of the Blackbird is 150 kms at mach 3+