Originally posted by Dima
oh, well the link, i'll try to find it, i think it was on some......................like rianovosti.com or some russian news site, and yo, american scientists pale in comparison to russian scientists, even to this day, even when the education in russia is struggling, they are still producing better scientists, i'm not sure if u were aware, but on rianovosti.com, i think it was 2 months ago, there was a science competition for children aged 14-25 to make something totally revolutionary and amzing

well, in the top 10, there were 7 russian teams, they swept the top 3 gold silver and bronze, then they got 4, 5 and 9 and 10there were two american groups and a french group in the competition

so, u're scientists are useless, well not useless, thats mean, bu aren't as smart or innovative as the russians(u' guys r still pondering cold launch lol)

Russia has not come close to the development of revolutionary technology when compared to America.

You want Revolutionary? Like the Airplane? Like the Internet? Like the lightbulb? Like the Atom bomb? Like the a mission to mars (something Russia STILL can't do)? Like stealth aircraft? Like mass production? ETC ETC ETC...

Compared to Russia, we are the great inovater!

the F/A-22 wasn't started in 1980, it was started in the mid 80's, but nothing happened there, only the requiremements were set forth, they didn't start building it until i think it was 1988, but by that time, the ussr was already collapsing, so many russian scientists must have fled already, and the scientists could have given the american guys idea's on improvements, and here comes the F/A-22

The ATF program started in 1981. 1983 the Engines were made. 1985 ATF proposals were issued. 1986 both YF-22 and YF-23 were recieved and tested. 1990 both were test flown. All this before the USSR collapsed. Sorry - THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD IS ALL AMERICAN BABY WITH NO RUSSIAN SCIENTISTS INVOLVED WHAT SO EVER!

Stop trying to give Russia credit for the Raptor - the only involvement they had was it was designed to kill them

Originally posted by Dima
yea the key word is one of the most maneuverable planes in the world, yes it is, but the Su-47 or the Su-37, i don't know which one, are the most maneuverable in the world, try pulling a Pugachev's cobra on u'rre F/A-22, u're plane will snap in half,

and if u say something about how they do the tricks with 60% fuel in them, i have a good comebak

OK - I am sick of explaining this, but - for you - I will make an exception...

THE COBRA IS USELESS IN REAL WORLD DOG FIGHTING!!!!!

Besides, as has been discussed - the Russian would never be able to use it because he would already be dead.

The Russian would never get to dogfight the US pilot because of the superior BVR ability of the US.

there u go with u're BVR bull#, yo, u know wat, maybe i was wrong, maybe there are two types of BVR, but i am sure that the russians have it also, jesus christ, friggin american filled up wit his propaganda bulll#, man i'm tired of people like u hu are constantly attacking every nation they see fit, and then we have to step up and defend them against 80% of this site hu is american, u friggin pussy( i hope the moderators don't kick me out for this, because i've tried to get on this site so hard, so i could prove all u're bs lies wrong0 i apologize to the moderators, but to u, thats a different story u're a closed minded person wit absolutely no knownledge in other countries affairs so shutup

u want revolutionary technology, okay, here u go, i don't know too many, i'l get my friends help though, he knows a ton

plasma, scalar electromagnetics, missiles(best missiles in the world), cold launch, most powerful nuke in the world, unmatched biological and chemical operatiions, weather control(that comes along wit scalar electromagnetics), we have a Mars trip ready for 2020, anti-gravity

thats all i can think of right now, sry, i'l try better when i get more ideas

if u haven't been paying attention to russia recently in the past week, there has been so much news on them , their in an outbreak this is amazing, their going to start extracting oil from the Arctic and are developing new nuclear weapons, wow, this is an awesome week so far

Originally posted by Dima
there u go with u're BVR bull#, yo, u know wat, maybe i was wrong, maybe there are two types of BVR, but i am sure that the russians have it also

BVR bull#? It is not BS - it is the most important aspect of A2A combat nowadays! That is the whole point! Of course Russia has it - I never said they didn't. But, since you don't understand how it affects an A2A fight, I will explain it to you.

Imagine for a second that there are two men, in a large field. One man has a scoped rifle and camo, while the other man has a rifle with a less powerfull scope and no camo. Obviously the man with camo and the better scope has a huge advantge. This is of course simplified, but it is akin to the advantage that the US - with a stealth fighter such as the Raptor - enjoys.

Now, say the two men get close to each other. The man without the restrictive camo and the lighter, more handy rifle will now be at the advantage. Thus, the Russian enjoy an advantage in a dogfight.

So in short - the US has the long range advantage. We will "see" a Russian airplane before it "sees" us, and we will be able to shoot at it first. Russia has a short range advantage. Russia likes very manueverable fighters, and thus in a dogfight - assuming the pilots are of equal talent - the Russians have the advantage.

jesus christ, friggin american filled up wit his propaganda bulll#, man i'm tired of people like u hu are constantly attacking every nation they see fit,

Why don't you go read my posts and yours and see who attacked whos tech first buddy. I wasn't even talking to you untill you brought up some super secret spy plane that is way better then anything America has. Talk about propaganda - get a clue dude!

and then we have to step up and defend them against 80% of this site hu is american, u friggin pussy( i hope the moderators don't kick me out for this, because i've tried to get on this site so hard, so i could prove all u're bs lies wrong0 i apologize to the moderators, but to u, thats a different story u're a closed minded person wit absolutely no knownledge in other countries affairs so shutup

Pussy?

I didn't ask to even talk to you - you started attacking my post, and now that I actually put up some points that are TRUE you feel you have to resort to name calling like a little child. How absolutly pathetic.

Listen, if you really want to see who is the big tough guy here and who is the pussy, we can do that. You don't want to though - trust me. Why don't you leave this imature name calling to you and your adolecent friends, OK?

I am not close minded. I am, however, aware of the FACTS. The FACT is that the US has an advantage in BVR combat. The FACT is that the US has the best Aerospace technology, overall, in the world. That is not to make light of Russian technology - you seem to think that just because I feel the US is better in some areas that I don't respect them - thats wrong. I am a great admirer of the 'Flanker' and 'super flanker'. I am also a big fan of the AK-47, I used to own one but I sold it to help pay for a second car.

As for having no knowladge of other countries afairs, I have a good grasp of world politics, thank you. Just because I don't agree with you has nothing to do with "other countries affairs."

[edit on 19-11-2004 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by Dima
u want revolutionary technology, okay, here u go, i don't know too many, i'l get my friends help though, he knows a ton

plasma, scalar electromagnetics, missiles(best missiles in the world), cold launch, most powerful nuke in the world, unmatched biological and chemical operatiions, weather control(that comes along wit scalar electromagnetics), we have a Mars trip ready for 2020, anti-gravity

thats all i can think of right now, sry, i'l try better when i get more ideas

Plasma is not a technology - it is a form of matter. The manipulation of plasma (in this case I am assuming you mean plasma stealth) has been done by many countries, including Russia and The USA.

If you want to find out a novel aplication of plasma technology, check out how the B-2 bomber uses it. Another good post on the subject is by Intelgurl - it is very informative, and she is an industry insider, something you and I are not.

I am sorry to dissapoint you, but most of the technologies you have listed have either not taken place yet (ie. mars mission) or are still "in the black" (ie weather control and AG). I think you will find that many countries - especially the US - also are working in these fields, so to say that they are uniquely Russian is not true.

Lets wait till we know about these technologies - on both sides - before we declare a victor, OK?

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Dima
there u go with u're BVR bull#, yo, u know wat, maybe i was wrong, maybe there are two types of BVR, but i am sure that the russians have it also

BVR bull#? It is not BS - it is the most important aspect of A2A combat nowadays! That is the whole point! Of course Russia has it - I never said they didn't. But, since you don't understand how it affects an A2A fight, I will explain it to you.

Imagine for a second that there are two men, in a large field. One man has a scoped rifle and camo, while the other man has a rifle with a less powerfull scope and no camo. Obviously the man with camo and the better scope has a huge advantge. This is of course simplified, but it is akin to the advantage that the US - with a stealth fighter such as the Raptor - enjoys.

Now, say the two men get close to each other. The man without the restrictive camo and the lighter, more handy rifle will now be at the advantage. Thus, the Russian enjoy an advantage in a dogfight.

So in short - the US has the long range advantage. We will "see" a Russian airplane before it "sees" us, and we will be able to shoot at it first. Russia has a short range advantage. Russia likes very manueverable fighters, and thus in a dogfight - assuming the pilots are of equal talent - the Russians have the advantage.

jesus christ, friggin american filled up wit his propaganda bulll#, man i'm tired of people like u hu are constantly attacking every nation they see fit,

Why don't you go read my posts and yours and see who attacked whos tech first buddy. I wasn't even talking to you untill you brought up some super secret spy plane that is way better then anything America has. Talk about propaganda - get a clue dude!

and then we have to step up and defend them against 80% of this site hu is american, u friggin pussy( i hope the moderators don't kick me out for this, because i've tried to get on this site so hard, so i could prove all u're bs lies wrong0 i apologize to the moderators, but to u, thats a different story u're a closed minded person wit absolutely no knownledge in other countries affairs so shutup

Pussy?

I didn't ask to even talk to you - you started attacking my post, and now that I actually put up some points that are TRUE you feel you have to resort to name calling like a little child. How absolutly pathetic.

Listen, if you really want to see who is the big tough guy here and who is the pussy, we can do that. You don't want to though - trust me. Why don't you leave this imature name calling to you and your adolecent friends, OK?

I am not close minded. I am, however, aware of the FACTS. The FACT is that the US has an advantage in BVR combat. The FACT is that the US has the best Aerospace technology, overall, in the world. That is not to make light of Russian technology - you seem to think that just because I feel the US is better in some areas that I don't respect them - thats wrong. I am a great admirer of the 'Flanker' and 'super flanker'. I am also a big fan of the AK-47, I used to own one but I sold it to help pay for a second car.

As for having no knowladge of other countries afairs, I have a good grasp of world politics, thank you. Just because I don't agree with you has nothing to do with "other countries affairs."

[edit on 19-11-2004 by American Mad Man]

k wait, let me respond in order of the paragraphs that u have used, k so let me see which one is first.......................

oh yea, u're example, the camo thing, well, i pretty much sagrre wit that except u're nbot representing radar in any way, because radar will still allow u to get a faint signal on the person, but anyways...........................

and the secret spy plane, wow, i NEVER said that it was better, i just said that russia was developing it and propaganda, yo, that wasn't prpaganda, uncles don't teach propaganda to their nephews buddy................................

u're true stuff, please, give me a break, u give absolutely no credit to russian scientists that helped you guys out in the 90's wit everything, u guys bought technology from us, that is a testament to our potential in technology, and yea, the russian scientists informaed your government officials on everything happening in the soviet union

some of it is true, and u're grasp on other countries is probably no where to the extent of mine, i could give u the popualtions of almost every country in my head, i'm serious, that y i got a 98 in geography and a 96 in history(i'm a super smart dude)(lol)

and i think that u're lying about u're" oh i like russian stuff, u are presenting such a negative attitude towards it, its not even funny, i at least gave some good points n the SR-71"

well, i think thats all i can respond to

It's so funny how you just change your tune

first I'm a pussy, now I'm a liar! You know what I think better then I do! Of course you do! You got a 96!

Listen - I can tell you haven't hit 20 yet, so I'll save you the trouble.

1) Believe it or not, I do like a lot of Russian technology. But like I said, I believe the US overall to be superior.

2) I know Russian scientists are good, OK - i don't dobt that. I was an avid chess player (untill I discovered poker ) so I do know that Russian minds are very formidable.

3) If this spy plane is so secret, he would not have told you about it. Period. My dad has worked aboard US nuclear submarines, and he doesn't tell me # - and everyone knows the Ohio class subs exist. So either you're uncle embelished something to make a good story for you, or he broke every protocall in secrecy and you are putting his future at risk.

anyways, it is a friday night, and its time for me to go have some well deserved fun.

yo, he's 62, he's no part of the project anymore, and they cancelled it, it was supposed to come out in 200-2001 or somethign like that, i said previously

and i didn't say that the russians have landed on mars, i
m saying that they have ambitions for around 2020how old r u anyways

i don't care if i'm younger, i can still put up a good fight hopefully

i haven't been paying attention to fighter aircraft for a while now, got kinda lazy, so once i start up again, we'll talk, and we'll see

here have been exagerations from both sides, like blackbird M4 speed, super-stealth cualities or russian super - spyplane, the cold war propaganda overrated the blackbird with that "unreachable plane" myth, and also underrated the foxbat with that "fragile 5gs plane" myth, when the people find that the mig25 can beat the sr71 then start to say " MiG-25 was nowhere as sophisticated as the SR-71A" or "blackbird speed is confidential" the max missile speed from an M2-M2.8 foxbat is M6-M7, the foxbat radar is powerful enought to detect the true target, and an M3 plane have an very strong IR signature, the diference of max altitude is only 1500 mts, and the target cant maneuvre so again the blackbird is easy target.

Originally posted by grunt
here have been exagerations from both sides, like blackbird M4 speed, super-stealth cualities or russian super - spyplane, the cold war propaganda overrated the blackbird with that "unreachable plane" myth, and also underrated the foxbat with that "fragile 5gs plane" myth, when the people find that the mig25 can beat the sr71 then start to say " MiG-25 was nowhere as sophisticated as the SR-71A" or "blackbird speed is confidential" the max missile speed from an M2-M2.8 foxbat is M6-M7, the foxbat radar is powerful enought to detect the true target, and an M3 plane have an very strong IR signature, the diference of max altitude is only 1500 mts, and the target cant maneuvre so again the blackbird is easy target.

You are saying that the misilles used on Foxbat can reach mach 7? I highly doubt it.
BTW what speed is Foxbat able to make with such big misilles underwings? The Mach 2.8 is only for clean configuration.

Originally posted by Dima
yo, he's 62, he's no part of the project anymore, and they cancelled it, it was supposed to come out in 200-2001 or somethign like that, i said previously

My argument still stands - if he was part of such a project, he would not disscuss it. That, or he is guilty of giving up classified information, and may spend the rest of his life in jail - or be executed.

and i didn't say that the russians have landed on mars, i
m saying that they have ambitions for around 2020how old r u anyways

And like I said - it's not technology OR an accomplishment if it hasn't been done yet.

i don't care if i'm younger, i can still put up a good fight hopefully

i haven't been paying attention to fighter aircraft for a while now, got kinda lazy, so once i start up again, we'll talk, and we'll see

Well, I was simply saying I knew you were younger by the way you write and your "elequent" choice of words

Listen - this is my point - you obviously don't know much about modern air warfare. Thats OK - thats what this site is all about - denying ignorance. But you must understand, if you are going to quote me and attack my post when I A) wasn't talking to you, and B) wasn't saying anything derogatory about any country - just stating my beliefs on the abillity of the SR-71 blackbird - you have to expect that I am going to put up a fight.

Add to that your lack of understanding of current air combat trends and technology, and I am sorry - but I am going to rip your argument apart because it is simply wrong.

There is a LOT of good info on this site that deals with modern air warfare - I hope you read it, so that you may better understand the true abillity of each nation

u never answered my question, how old r u

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Dima
yo, he's 62, he's no part of the project anymore, and they cancelled it, it was supposed to come out in 200-2001 or somethign like that, i said previously

and i didn't say that the russians have landed on mars, i
m saying that they have ambitions for around 2020how old r u anyways

And like I said - it's not technology OR an accomplishment if it hasn't been done yet.

i don't care if i'm younger, i can still put up a good fight hopefully

i haven't been paying attention to fighter aircraft for a while now, got kinda lazy, so once i start up again, we'll talk, and we'll see

Well, I was simply saying I knew you were younger by the way you write and your "elequent" choice of words

Listen - this is my point - you obviously don't know much about modern air warfare. Thats OK - thats what this site is all about - denying ignorance. But you must understand, if you are going to quote me and attack my post when I A) wasn't talking to you, and B) wasn't saying anything derogatory about any country - just stating my beliefs on the abillity of the SR-71 blackbird - you have to expect that I am going to put up a fight.

Add to that your lack of understanding of current air combat trends and technology, and I am sorry - but I am going to rip your argument apart because it is simply wrong.

There is a LOT of good info on this site that deals with modern air warfare - I hope you read it, so that you may better understand the true abillity of each nation

My argument still stands - if he was part of such a project, he would not disscuss it. That, or he is guilty of giving up classified information, and may spend the rest of his life in jail - or be executed.

, no, u're arguement is irrelevant because if they cancelled the project, then there is no need to keep all the workers under check, and he was only the engine technicien, they wanted to use scramjets, but every time they used it, because of the powerful force of the air, some things would rip apart inside, and by the time they had half-solved the problem, funding wasas cut, and it was never restarted again

it was a cool prject though

and please, don't think u're so high and mighty jus cuz u're older, jeeze, in the next 2 weeks, i will be doing massivve searchs on everything, to reinstate my once large amount of knowledge, right now, i'm kinda stupid

so, yea..........................

i didn't attack u until the post on page 9 i think, and thats cuz u weren't stopping being an annoying ass, but all the other posts, i kept a calm nature and writing style, even recently, tsome of my posts n page 9 show that i was at least trying to be calm

Originally posted by Dima
u never answered my question, how old r u

Older then you son