Sincere Christians Only please - my faith is being tested and shaken

You know, if you are going to espouse Christian mythology at people in the hopes of convincing them to "turn from their evil ways," perhaps you should try to do it in a way that doesn't make the mythology you are peddling look so bad. But, since you wanted to come out swinging here, allow me to respond in kind You pulled no punches on what you believe, and I won't either.

This is the standard line that all bible-thumpers spew forth. "God created you. He will judge you and send you to hell. Turn to his love before he tortures you, torments you, and condemns you to an eternity of pain, suffering, agony, and separation! But, don't ask me to prove it."

I'm sorry...wait, no I'm not. Your religious mythology and holy book offer nothing more than threats, manipulation, condemnation, and emotional abuse. I see nothing positive, nothing good, nothing "holy" in what you are offering us here. As well, I have never seen one shred, one iota, of proof that the Christian god actually exists.

So, though it wasn't directed at me, do you want my answer as to what I would say if I ever came face-to-face with Jesus? I would say "thanks, but no thanks. I would rather go to hell than live in service to a jealous god who demands subservience, worship, and piety yet fails to give us proof that he exists. I would rather burn in a lake of fire for eternity than take a reward offered by a god who gives us the will to live our lives as we see fit, but still chooses to punish us for simply not believing in him. I refuse to honor a god whose criteria for saving people lies not in the goodness of their hearts, the honor of their deeds, or the caliber of their actions, but in whether or not they chose to follow one of the hundreds of religions on this planet. Your god, who demands to be worshiped, doesn't deserve to be!"
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I don't believe you. I don't believe that you will respond to God in such a manner when you face him. I don't think you are intentionally lying here even though you want to come off as irreverant and unrepentant. It's just that you
are in ignorance of the gravity of such an event. The difference between true Christianity and every other form of
religeous expression is this: When a person comes to Christ honestly, God gives him something he never had before. He gives him a portion of his Holy Spirit. There are only two kinds of people in this world right now; those who possess this added Holy Spirit and those who do not. It is the Holy Spirit that separates the true believer form everyone else. There has never been nor never will be any other experience to equal this. The pouring out of the spirit on pentecost was very powerful and that power started the church. it is called the former rain in the bible. Like in any planting season the former rain receeds in quantity and only comes intermitenly during the growing season to keep the garden growing. This is why there is only sporatic outbreaks of this power during the last 1900 years. However, each convert immediately upon conversion gets a small portion of this spirit. There are a lot of fakes in this world trying to make people believe that they have the fulness of the power of the spirit but they are just fakes. But God does act occasionally in this power for people now. Just like with any normal planting season there is a latter rain to boost the harvest. This is coming soon in this generation. The bible says it will be a double portion of what was given before. My point is this: No other religeon(and I hate to call it that) has this added dimension. Satan tries to imitate this with his spirit but it is hogwash. Just because something appears supernatural does not mean that it is God's Holy Spirit.
Maybe you cannot be convinced and converted. Everyone has free will. God only wants his saints to love him out of free will. The alternative choices for not loving him is not a threat, it is a promise. God does not want everyone because everyone does not want God. He nor I want to spend eternity with such spirits. Maybe you can't be saved. But as lobg as grace abounds who so ever will may come. I hope you see the light.

reply to post by lr7gmx

But when you shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Luke 21:9

Say to those who are of a fearful and hasty heart, Be strong, fear not! Behold, your God will come with vengeance; with the recompense of God He will come and save you. Isaiah 35: 4

The LORD is my light and my salvation-- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life-- of whom shall I be afraid? Psalm 27:1

When I am afraid, I will trust in you. In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can mortal man do to me? Psalm 56:3-4

For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, ""Abba," Father." Romans 8:15

Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." 1 Peter 3:13-14

Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Hebrews 13:5-6

What is it you are fearing??

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:24

Do not fall for the New Agers ... have you tried binding the spirit of fear in the name of Jesus? I know it sounds crazy but commanding thoughts that i know i shouldn't have to depart from me in the name of Jesus actually works .... it weirded me out at first. Couldn't believe it actually was / is working.

enkispeaks.com... ( Marduk's Theory)

Holy crap, if that is the Theory you are talking about it is a pure mockery of the Bible. Can you tell me specifically what is troubling to you about this idea so i can try and address it?

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

I do not doubt many of the mythical heros were real .... were all of them real? I have no idea, but they got these ideas from some where, and i believe " Hercules " for example could have been real and had supernatural strength.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37

Now, i am not sure if Giants are going to be walking around again, however, who knows? When the holy spirit no longer restrains the powers of demons and Satan, i dont know what is going to happen. Would you lose faith in God / Jesus if you saw massive ships hovering over the world's capitals? ( i believe, IF, they are real, they are demonic )

I do believe many of the religions of old came from reverence to these Nephelim and Heroes, that they actually existed at one point and were eventually killed by the flood and Israel, most of them any way.

Originally posted by cantyousee
I don't believe you. I don't believe that you will respond to God in such a manner when you face him. I don't think you are intentionally lying here even though you want to come off as irreverant and unrepentant. It's just that you
are in ignorance of the gravity of such an event.

First off, there is no "gravity" of such an event. There is no evidence, anywhere, to support your assertion that your god exists and that his son will come to judge the sinners.

Originally posted by cantyouseeThe difference between true Christianity and every other form of
religeous expression is this: When a person comes to Christ honestly, God gives him something he never had before. He gives him a portion of his Holy Spirit.

No. The difference between "true Christianity" and every other form of religious expression, is no one else quite has the arrogance of devout Christians (except, perhaps, devout Muslims). I don't know what it is about people with this pathological mentality of yours. People, like you, seem to have an undeserved superiority complex and arrogance that surrounds anything they do that relates to their religion and mythos.

Originally posted by cantyouseeThere are only two kinds of people in this world right now; those who possess this added Holy Spirit and those who do not. It is the Holy Spirit that separates the true believer form everyone else.

Let me correct you. "There are only two kinds of people in this world right now; those who feel themselves superior to others by virtue of their religious beliefs, and those who do not." That is what you should have said. And, it is clear which camp you fall in to.

Originally posted by cantyouseeThere has never been nor never will be any other experience to equal this.

There is also no other experience equal to having one's arm ripped out of its socket, but that doesn't mean it is an experience I think beneficial any more than I find Christianity to be beneficial.

Originally posted by cantyouseeThe pouring out of the spirit on pentecost was very powerful and that power started the church. it is called the former rain in the bible. Like in any planting season the former rain receeds in quantity and only comes intermitenly during the growing season to keep the garden growing. This is why there is only sporatic outbreaks of this power during the last 1900 years.

Non-sequiturs make me eat lampshades.

Originally posted by cantyouseeHowever, each convert immediately upon conversion gets a small portion of this spirit. There are a lot of fakes in this world trying to make people believe that they have the fulness of the power of the spirit but they are just fakes.

And you have the ability, and the authority, to judge who those people are, right?

Originally posted by cantyouseeBut God does act occasionally in this power for people now.

Proof?

Originally posted by cantyouseeJust like with any normal planting season there is a latter rain to boost the harvest. This is coming soon in this generation.

I have no idea what you are talking about. It rained here this morning, does that mean god just converted my patio table to Christianity?

Originally posted by cantyouseeThe bible says it will be a double portion of what was given before.

The bible also says that it is a sin to wear clothing of more than one type of material. But, I'll bet dollars to pesos you aren't clamoring to get rid of your poly-cottons, now are you? The bible can say anything, but it doesn't mean that the bible is right.

Originally posted by cantyouseeMy point is this: No other religeon(and I hate to call it that) has this added dimension. Satan tries to imitate this with his spirit but it is hogwash. Just because something appears supernatural does not mean that it is God's Holy Spirit.

And just because a Christian thinks their god exists doesn't mean that it isn't hogwash.

Originally posted by cantyouseeMaybe you cannot be convinced and converted. Everyone has free will. God only wants his saints to love him out of free will. God does not want everyone because everyone does not want God. He nor I want to spend eternity with such spirits. Maybe you can't be saved. But as lobg as grace abounds who so ever will may come. I hope you see the light.

edit on 1-11-2012 by cantyousee because: spelling

Your god doesn't desire love, he demands devotion and worship. That is rule by fear, the tactic of all petty dictators and criminals throughout history. I fail to see how your god is any different. Do you know the difference between a threat a promise? A promise is done through mutual respect between parties. A threat is when one person has power and demands obedience. Your god fits the latter.

reply to post by Koros


If you do not believe the Bible, we cannot help you. You are the rebellious child the Bible speaks about.

Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed." Revelation 15:4

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:23

Why would you NOT bow down to a God who is perfect? Who loves you with ever fiber of his being. Who wants the best for you? There is no corruption in him what so ever, there is no shame in submitting and bowing to a God who will give you everything and more.Your rightful inheritance.

You do not have to voluntarily bow before God, however, once he reveals himself, you will wish you had.

And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. Ezekiel 39:23

Then my wrath against you will subside and my jealous anger will turn away from you; I will be calm and no longer angry. Ezekiel 16:42

"I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 39:29

Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”

Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:24-29

You'll see one day.

Originally posted by milkyway12
If you do not believe the Bible, we cannot help you. You are the rebellious child the Bible speaks about.

And, yet, you keep trying. Huh. Odd.

Why would you NOT bow down to a God who is perfect?

Because I've no evidence that he is.

Who loves you with ever fiber of his being.

Because evidence shows the contrary (i.e. "no matter how good of a person you are, if you don't go to the right church and think the right things, you will burn in hell.) That isn't love. That is rule by fear.

Who wants the best for you?

If he wanted the best, he could provide it. Again, I see no evidence in the world to support your claim.

There is no corruption in him what so ever,

He is nothing but corruption

there is no shame in submitting and bowing to a God who will give you everything and more.Your rightful inheritance.

There is also no shame in admitting that the Christian god doesn't exist.

You do not have to voluntarily bow before God,

Thank you for your permission. How kind of you.

however, once he reveals himself, you will wish you had.

If he was to reveal himself to me, he had ample time to do it. If your god is as omnipotent as you claim, then he would know what kind of guidance, proof, or evidence I needed in order to "submit and bow to him." The fact that he refuses to do so proves my point. The Christian god is a fairy tale, dreamed up by people who wanted to explain the world around them and then morphed by a power-hungry religious institution as a way to demand subservience and obedience from the masses.

You'll see one day.

I've already seen. I've seen that your god doesn't exist. You can quote all the bible verses you like, it doesn't actually give your argument any weight. You'd have more luck quoting philosophers, academics, scholars, and scientists. You know, people whose opinions actually matter.

reply to post by Koros


Hehe, good luck!

And, yet, you keep trying. Huh. Odd.

Hmm? Why do you post on a Christian thread?

" Sincere Christians Only please - my faith is being tested and shaken ".

You seem to be trying to convince yourself he isn't real more than anything else. However, you will have a second chance. Once the rapture occurs, you'll know what happened. Many people will come to God then, but they will die for their new beliefs. Unless, of course, you die before the rapture.

reply to post by Koros

So you want proof that God exists? I would start with the ressurection of Jesus. I can prove to you through logic(something you seem to be impressed with). If we are going to discuss the ressurection's validity we have to assume a few facts are true. First we have to agree that Jesus lived and preached and was crucified by the romans at the instigation of the Jews. I hope you are not ignorant of the facts here but even most critics believe that Jesus existed. Secular history even says so. If you need proof of that just search"secular evidence for the existance of Jesus of nazareth."
The entire Christian faith hangs on the truth of the ressurection. If Jesus did not come out of that tomb and sail of into the blue then I don't need Christianity or God for that matter. Shall we begin?

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Koros

 

Hehe, good luck!

And, yet, you keep trying. Huh. Odd.

Hmm? Why do you post on a Christian thread?

" Sincere Christians Only please - my faith is being tested and shaken ".

You seem to be trying to convince yourself he isn't real more than anything else. However, you will have a second chance. Once the rapture occurs, you'll know what happened. Many people will come to God then, but they will die for their new beliefs. Unless, of course, you die before the rapture.

edit on 1-11-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I don't care what the threat title says. ATS is not a Christian forum, and thus I'm under no delusion that the topics here are meant solely for Christians, by Christians. If the OP wanted answers solely from Christians, she should have gone elsewhere.

And, no, I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. The onus is on Christians to prove their god exists. They've yet to be able to do that.

Originally posted by cantyousee
reply to post by Koros

 

So you want proof that God exists? I would start with the ressurection of Jesus. I can prove to you through logic(something you seem to be impressed with). If we are going to discuss the ressurection's validity we have to assume a few facts are true. First we have to agree that Jesus lived and preached and was crucified by the romans at the instigation of the Jews. I hope you are not ignorant of the facts here but even most critics believe that Jesus existed. Secular history even says so. If you need proof of that just search"secular evidence for the existance of Jesus of nazareth."
The entire Christian faith hangs on the truth of the ressurection. If Jesus did not come out of that tomb and sail of into the blue then I don't need Christianity or God for that matter. Shall we begin?

Oh, why not? I'm game. Yes, I do believe a man existed who Christians refer to as Jesus. Yes, I do believe he was a great teacher who taught many good things to many people. I also believe he was executed by the Romans for his beliefs and teachings. But, of course, none of that precludes him being a normal man, born of normal parents, with no more of a divine parentage than anyone else.

But, sure, if you can prove through logic that Jesus was resurrected, I'd like to hear it.

reply to post by Koros

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I do have a life and I had to take care of business. But on with the challenge.
Jesus was buried in a "known, accesible tomb. The Jews were aware of his prophecy that he would rise from the dead so they went to the romans and desired guards to be placed at the tomb in the event that the disciples would move the body. This is recorded in the gospels. The most compelling evidense that he rose was the empty tomb. But what about the possibilities that someone moved it? There is a list of these and I will categorize them here.
1. The disciples moved the body
2. The romans moved the body
3. The jews moved the body.
4 Someone else unknown moved the body

1. The disciples moved the body. They had bet on the wrong horse and they secretly moved the body to make it appear that Jesus had risen. This is highly unlikely seeing the romans had placed guards at the grave. But maybe they moved it before the guards were put into place.
2. If the Romans moved the body for safe keeping all they would have had to do is produce it and game over.
The same with the Jews. It was in their best interest to produce the body and game over.
There is one last argument that Jesus never died but he resuscitated in the cool of the tomb. First of all, there has never been a recorded incident where anyone lived through a roman crucifixion. They were very brutal and the manner of death was certain. They even went so far as to always check and make sure the victim was dead and if not they would break their legs or run them through to hasten the death. Could someone else have moved the body for any reason? This is highly unlikely because the guards would have prevented this from happening and besides it is recorded that Mary and Martha finished the annointing and wrapping immediately because of the sabath drawing near at sundown. They could not do anything after sundown on the high sabbath which fell on wednesday of that year. This was an high sabbath, apart from the regular saturday sabbath because it was passover.
Where's the body?
Had the disciples bet on the wrong horse and conspired together to make up this fantastic story?
Forget the record in the gospels and Acts of all the witnesses because if they made up the story then they also made up the rest. The whole nine yards hangs on the truthfulness of the disciples. They were either premeditated liars making the whole thing up or they were honestly reporting what they had seen and heard.
I could fathom that if they were together, group pressure can sometimes make people in the group stick to a story. But these men were scattered to far flung regions apart from one another. There were no phones or computors. It took weeks and sometimes months to get a letter somewhere. If they had made up this story, each one in his time faced with death for telling it, it does not seem logical that one of them somewhere would not have recanted. I mean, if your facing a cruel death for telling a story and your a liar to begin with, what are the odds that you would not recant to save your own skin. I mean, none of the others would know being separated as they were. All you have to do is say, "Hey, I made it up, it's not true and i will stop telling it.

The truth they taught, even unto death, has stood the test of time. Jesus was God in the flesh, was crucified for the remission of sin, was raised on the third day, is sitting at the right hand of God, and will come again to judge the world. The disciples held fast to these beliefs and went forth with confidence to preach the Gospel. As a result of professing the Good News, many were condemned to death. Here is the record:
1.Andrew, brother of Peter, was crucified in Edessa.
2.Bartholomew was beaten and then crucified in India
3.James the Great, older brother of John, was beheaded in 44 A.D. in Judea.
4.James the Less was beaten, stoned, and then clubbed to death at age 94 in Jerusalem
5.Jude, brother of James, was crucified in 72 A.D. in Edessa.
6.Luke was hanged on an olive tree in Greece.
7.Mark was dragged to death in Alexandria.
8.Matthew was killed with a weapon that had a blade and spike in 60 A.D. in Nadabah.
9.Matthias was stoned and then beheaded in Jerusalem
10.Paul was beheaded with a sword in Rome.
11.Peter was crucified head down by request as unworthy to die the same as Christ, in Rome
12.Philip was scourged, imprisoned, and then crucified in 54 A.D. in Heliopolis, Phrygia
13.Simon was crucified in 74 A.D. in Britain.
14Stephen was stoned to death in 34 A.D. in Jerusalem
15Thomas was thrust through with a spear in India.
John, known as the apostle of love is the only disciple to be spared a martydom death. He was exiled to the Isle of Patmos where he wrote the book of Revelation

reply to post by cantyousee


That is a very interesting theory. However, you go wrong right at the beginning. Your entire assumption is that the bible, and thus the gospels, are historically accurate. You begin your "logical argument" with an illogical fallacy. You can't convince someone with logic when the very foundation of your claim is based on an assumption.

For you argument to carry weight, there must be proof the historical validity of both the gospels and of their accounts of the crucifixion and the burial. Once those criteria are met, then we can have an intellectually honest discussion about the resurrection. Until then, you are presenting a false syllogism wherein the major proposition is built upon an unsupported minor proposition.

Sorry. No dice.

Originally posted by Koros
reply to post by cantyousee

 

That is a very interesting theory. However, you go wrong right at the beginning. Your entire assumption is that the bible, and thus the gospels, are historically accurate. You begin your "logical argument" with an illogical fallacy. You can't convince someone with logic when the very foundation of your claim is based on an assumption.

For you argument to carry weight, there must be proof the historical validity of both the gospels and of their accounts of the crucifixion and the burial. Once those criteria are met, then we can have an intellectually honest discussion about the resurrection. Until then, you are presenting a false syllogism wherein the major proposition is built upon an unsupported minor proposition.

Sorry. No dice.

But you see, I got you. You are wrong. WE agreed that a man named Jesus lived and preached and was crucified. It is an historical fact that there is an empty tomb. There has never been a body found. It is an historical fact of secular history that many disciples lived and preached a risen Christ. You can find that in secular writings. Go ahead and search it. Their martyrdom has been traced and recorded in secular history. Go ahead an discount the ones mentioned in the bible and there are still those written about in secular writings. There has never been any account anywhere of anyone of them that recanted their story. It begs the question. "Why would so many give their lives for a lie? And why would they be hunted and killed for simply preaching and witnessing about a savior who died and rose? If it was a lie then it would have no power or be a threat. Why all the hatred toward such a thing? I'm talking about martyerdoms of people before the crusades; before unscrupulous leaders and kings would use the faith for wars.
All the gospels do after you research the secular writings is give a clearer picture of what went on. It is as though history gives validation to the story simply because of the persecution. If you can search this out and not come to a logical conclusion that Christ rose from the dead then you are willfully ignoring the facts. Had he not risen from the dead and had he not threatened their command and had not the apostles message gone out with real power in miracles and signs to further that threat then there would have been no persecutions.
Friend, you must and so must every one deal with Jesus of Nazareth. For every knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus is Lord. I don't want you to go to hell and neither does Christ.

reply to post by cantyousee


Sorry, but you didn't get me on squat. Agreeing that there was a historical figure who was executed for his beliefs, whom the Christians now call Jesus, does not validate the gospels in any way. The gospels may include an account of those historical events, but in order for your claims to be given weight, you have to be able to prove that the accounts presented are accurate and factual. You can not, or if you can have chosen no to, do that.

I'm not going to go search out the secular proofs you claim are out there. The onus is not on me to do your homework for you. You claimed you could logically prove the resurrection of your savior. You have not done so. So, it's time to put up or shut up. If there is proof of the historical veracity of the bible, as you seem to believe there is, then show me that proof. Then, and only then, will I begin to answer the numerous holes in your logical argument.

One step at a time, son. I'm not going to waste my time pointing out the holes in your conclusion (of which there are many) when you have yet to provide evidence for your premises.

(Oh, and for the record, I don't give two figs about what you do or do not want for me in terms of hell. Hell is simply an imaginary place used by power-hungry people to convert and control the scared, the easily manipulated, and the easily controlled.)

reply to post by Koros

Koros, I believe I've been caught casting my pearls before swine. A lot of people has used that term for numerable things but I have to admit that you are the very specimen Jesus spoke about when he coined the phrase. The reason I know this is because even an unbeliever born of ignorance who would read the story of Jesus and heard the wonderful things he done and is about to; even an unbeliever would want it to be true, even if it wasn't. Because it is the most wonderful story ever penned. What kind of a spirit true in its heart would not want that beautiful story to be real? But you;your spirit abhors the thought of it as being true. As though you despise it's very existance. It takes me awhile sometimes to catch on cause basically I'm an optimist and sometimes naive when it comes to underestimating people such as yourself. And btw, hell hasn't even been made yet. All spitis when they die;when the silver cord is broken;go back to the father and the flesh goes to the dust. I'll throw this in for free. There are no such things as ghosts; well not as people report them anyway. There are only evil spirits,left here from the flood. God commanded that they should walk the earth. These evil spirits masquerade to decieve and have sport with humans. Grandma isn't appearing to you after she dies.(Unless God gives special permission for a specific reason) it happens. But as a rule all spirits go to one side of paradise or the other.
One side awaits God's Judgement with hope of reward and love. One side awaits judgement for their works.
Another pearl for free. I'm in a good mood tonight.lol
The continual rejection of the spirit of God is what the unpardonable sin truely is. I will pray a prayer for you;that God will give you eyes to see and help you. It's in his hands. Don't bother to reply to this because I'm tired of your spiel. I have already deleted this thread from my favorites. cantyousee

Originally posted by cantyousee
reply to post by Koros

 

I believe I've been caught casting my pearls before swine.

I think the OP is where he is because of a growing suspicion that your precious little pearls may be fake.

All those tidbits you mentioned, did you witness them or are they second hand information?

reply to post by daskakik


when is the bible NOT second hand information ?
just look at Revelations...


The bible says that John says that an Angel said that God told Jesus these "many things to come".... And then the rest of revelations is written... And people believe it as if they heard it strait from this gods mouth....

Originally posted by cantyousee
reply to post by Koros

 

Koros, I believe I've been caught casting my pearls before swine. A lot of people has used that term for numerable things but I have to admit that you are the very specimen Jesus spoke about when he coined the phrase. The reason I know this is because even an unbeliever born of ignorance who would read the story of Jesus and heard the wonderful things he done and is about to; even an unbeliever would want it to be true, even if it wasn't. Because it is the most wonderful story ever penned. What kind of a spirit true in its heart would not want that beautiful story to be real? But you;your spirit abhors the thought of it as being true. As though you despise it's very existance. It takes me awhile sometimes to catch on cause basically I'm an optimist and sometimes naive when it comes to underestimating people such as yourself. And btw, hell hasn't even been made yet. All spitis when they die;when the silver cord is broken;go back to the father and the flesh goes to the dust. I'll throw this in for free. There are no such things as ghosts; well not as people report them anyway. There are only evil spirits,left here from the flood. God commanded that they should walk the earth. These evil spirits masquerade to decieve and have sport with humans. Grandma isn't appearing to you after she dies.(Unless God gives special permission for a specific reason) it happens. But as a rule all spirits go to one side of paradise or the other.
One side awaits God's Judgement with hope of reward and love. One side awaits judgement for their works.
Another pearl for free. I'm in a good mood tonight.lol
The continual rejection of the spirit of God is what the unpardonable sin truely is. I will pray a prayer for you;that God will give you eyes to see and help you. It's in his hands. Don't bother to reply to this because I'm tired of your spiel. I have already deleted this thread from my favorites. cantyousee

Let me translate this entire post, and the ones that led up to it, for those reading, since cantyousee prefers to cut and run when he realizes he's been beaten.

Him: I can prove Jesus was resurrected!
Me: Okay, go for it.
Him: The bible said so!
Me: That's not proof.
Him: Yes, it is. If it wasn't true, how could the bible say so?
Me: Again, that's not proof.
Him: That's it! I'm done with you horrible, god-hating heathen! How dare you not bow down to anything I say?! You should WANT me to be right! But, since you don't, I'm going to flounce away with an air of mock-indignation and pretend that I'm just too important for such an uninitiated god hater!
Me: Umm....yeah....Guess you aren't up to the task you were so desperate to start in the first place.