The joyful joys of Job Seekers allowance just got more joyful in the UK

Originally posted by latic
reply to post by old_god

 

I honestly feel your pain here, but put yourselves in the shoes of the staff dealing with these claims. Our country is full of people claiming things they shouldn't be and you cant have things both ways.

Would you rather have:

1) A system that anyone can easily exploit
2) A change to the system to try and stop people from exploiting it (Long term goal)

I've been in the same situation as you, however I didn't claim as I managed to sort myself a job out just before I was getting to that stage, but be honest with yourself and admit that a lot of the feelings your getting are because you really do not want to have to label yourself with "I'm a person that claims".

I do see it from their side, I know how abused the system has become and its unfortunate it is the way it is.

But that is not excuse for some of the behaviour of the staff and it shows that they simply do not have the direction to deal with the influx of claims (I was advised my claim would not be looked at for 12 weeks) and deal with people on an individual level...one woman I dealt with had already prejudged me the moment I sat down to talk to her and as a result of her attitude I had to make a written complaint to the council.

It really is true, you can have a well paid job in the UK and still end up poor.

reply to post by JeZeus


Do an online ESL cert then come over to China for a year. Sounds like you are fairly free.
If you're white, native English speaking and have both arms plus legs, no worries! 25-30USD an hour or 1,200 pound a month, most jobs supply apartments and visa's, some will even pay for your air tickets.
I'm doing P/T online vid conference teaching which I teach at home during my down time for 30$ every 45 minutes.
Instead of complaining about immigrants be the immigrant . You can live quite well here and save alot if you can bare dealing with kids.

reply to post by latic


With all due respect, you're missing the point. It isn't an exercise in sharpening the focus of benefits and making a fairer system, it's purely about saving money at the expense of any poor bar-stool who can't afford to take them to European Court.

Again, I reiterate, there are cheats but in every system you'll find the same, including politics, policing and journalism; the latter three engender no hatred from the public, more a throbbing resentment but because some people steal benefits from the state doesn't mean that all do. Some people whom you think are lazy B's have other issues they don't want to disclose to you which prevent them from walking into any job. It doesn't help that the press catch some poor sodd having a good time on the better days of their year and go and do something they usually can't do. Bingo! A benefit cheat! How come people in COMAS are being assessed as fit for work! Private companies, making good money are paid by this government with the remit to reduce budgets by 2/3!!! What do you think they will do...? They don't want to lose the contract, so they find 2/3s of applicants ineligeable. I've been told to do the same myself, refused and lost the job! whilst I was away, there was a Panorama or similar on telly where the Director of ATOS (don't give a), renowned for their radical approach to slicing benefits, went on record saying he admitted he'd got things wrong and that people would loose out; the next day he had "left the organisation"! When we really know what is really behind seemingly logical decisions, we understand that they aren't logical at all. Who benefits? Will you pay less tax when they save on benefits? No. Will you see more homelessness, helplessness, crime and suicide? I think so. Don't forget to toss a coin...but to whom?

This has been a superb post with some really good and healthy debate. We need opposition to ideas to enrich them so thank you and others for your alternative views.

Dave and Sinny, I used to live down your way and opted to leave. Now I hear some are leaving because they really have to and not because of unemployment. Good luck!

Reply to post by jimmiec

I think some of the more snobbish posters are forgetting to realise that even though there are both honest and dishonest people claiming benefits, there aren't enough jobs for even a third of the unemployed.

Perhaps if we get rid of robotic work, and have a more manual working world, we wouldn't have as much unemployment. Think about it, instead of a giant machine ploughing fields, have enough people under your employ, so that the fields still get ploughed in a shortish amount of time, and people are being paid. Same goes for manufacturing, retail and lots of other sectors, get rid of technology and allow people to he employed.

Of course, technology is also a good thing, it's faster and is capable of a lot more than humans in a shorter time frame, but until the entire economy can be based on technology for the production of enough food and clean water for humankind, then we should all he guranteed a job so that we don't starve to death, and if that isn't suitable, then yes, those that CAN'T find work should he given help (however, not those that WON'T find work, they should have a better way of making sure people don't scrounge other than handwriting that you've gone online and down the high street).


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

So tell me, are you happy for them to collect there money and go home?
To answer your question yes! I would expect to contribute to society if society is giving me money.

I agree completely, unfortunately our government don't!

Originally posted by domasio
Reply to post by jimmiec

 

I think some of the more snobbish posters are forgetting to realise that even though there are both honest and dishonest people claiming benefits, there aren't enough jobs for even a third of the unemployed.

Perhaps if we get rid of robotic work, and have a more manual working world, we wouldn't have as much unemployment. Think about it, instead of a giant machine ploughing fields, have enough people under your employ, so that the fields still get ploughed in a shortish amount of time, and people are being paid. Same goes for manufacturing, retail and lots of other sectors, get rid of technology and allow people to he employed.

Of course, technology is also a good thing, it's faster and is capable of a lot more than humans in a shorter time frame, but until the entire economy can be based on technology for the production of enough food and clean water for humankind, then we should all he guranteed a job so that we don't starve to death, and if that isn't suitable, then yes, those that CAN'T find work should he given help (however, not those that WON'T find work, they should have a better way of making sure people don't scrounge other than handwriting that you've gone online and down the high street).

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

And here lies the great dilemma.
Our economic system is such that certain advances in science and technology are causing less and less people to be employed.
This economic system is arranged so that the very thing that should in fact benefit man kind is instead causing their suffering.
I think for us to go get rid of the things that have replaced us is basically moving backwards in progress in order to continue to honour and worship this ridiculous and archaic system.
What you're basically saying is man kind should undo their progress so that people can work for a unit of measurement, which basically means to undo something that benefits man kind in favour of something that doesn't exist.
Let's all devolve so we can continue to work in unnecessary jobs that we don't need to do in order to obtain imaginary units of wealth.

The principle remains the same. I fought terrorists so both jews and arabs had the chance to together in relative peace. Take Haifa as an example of harmony amongst the races. It is possible if both sides want it.

The bigger problem is many fold.

*Lack of jobs...
*Low wages...and therefore lack of incentive to bother working.
*Little or no prospects of climbing a career ladder..in the vast majority of jobs...So you know your basically going nowhere...and again why bother.

On top of these factors...your forced to work until you are at least 60 years old... That may be fine if your in a job you like...or if you are in a career that you will have a good prospect at climbing up the ranks...but working in a job..or series of low pay and low status jobs for almost your entire life...Is not exactly motivating.

The whole model is completely effed up...Today people are working just to pay rent, bills, and they are lucky if they can go on a two week holiday each year.."whoo hoo"..

The main problem..or should I say scandal...is how the house prices were allowed to jump double, triple and quadruple and so on...until you have people paying mortgages that they would need to live well past 100 years old to pay off...I mean they would have to work till well past 100 more like.

In other words unrestricted property speculation turned what should have been a necessity in to a luxury...a home of your own. This was the main incentive to work, other than food and heat. once they made homes out of reach for the average person, it became pointless bothering with work. because if most of your hard earned wage goes straight to a landlord, your basically being robbed of a future...as traditionally homes are the main and often only financial asset people have to assure their future and to pass on to their kids.

The financial collapse needs to go alot further, and the house prices still need to tumble massively. Yet the government allow this farce to continue...

Working in Britain...you would have to be an idiot to bother with it.

the only way to go is to be self employed...or be smart enough to get a very good career.

With all due respect to Lady T, she was the most celebrated megalomaniac lunatic in British politics. She fed greed and left. No-one of any persuasion since has been able to stop that. Most have their heads deeeeeeep in the pie!

Further more...
Because all the actual industries were outsources to china inc...etc...The main economic engine in Britain is the so called "financial services industry"...Most people are completely unaware of this fact...that the main economic driver for the whole of Britain is the city of London..and a few thousand brokers and traders. The rest of society work in the so called service industry...working in shops..etc. But the service industry is not a real industry because it doesn't make anything, that gets sold to other countries...the only profitable bit of the service industry is tourism..and that does not bring in anywhere near enough money to the economy. the rest of the service industry is basically..one person working at Tesco..then getting paid...then buying products from marks and Spencer....and vice verse. In other words the money goes goes around in circles, within the country...but extra money is never added to the system...any clown can figure that out...the only way to grow an economy is through exports, which brings money into the system..either that or making your financial sector more attractive for multi national corporations to do business in...because Britain has a reputation of letting star Bucks...etc..away with bl00dy murder... in order for them to do business here...

Thats why the big panick happened...about a possible economic collapse...because if the financial center collapsed the whole country would be toast. That means all the so called jobs in the rest of the UK..are really being subsidized by the financial sector... that's right..a few thousand brokers and traders...pull all the strings and hold all the cards...and whats really worrying , we all know these guys are the most greedy, selfish gamblers in history...and they keep proving it...yet the Government acts completely obsolete and as though they are at the mercy of the financial sector..which as we all know includes the banks...and that's because the governments..are at their mercy...we all know about central banks etc. and we can all clearly see that for decades there has been no actual choice in what we get for a government..as they are all absolutely the same puppets for the mega rich.

and knowing all this...makes working even more pointless..knowing your job can evaporate overnight due to factors beyond your control...no matter how good a worker you are.

The western countries all made out things would change..but nothing has...and next bump in the road...will really be the last.

Reply to post by SpaceMonkeys

Not devolve as such, more give people the chance to get out of poverty until the progression can be such that nobody ever needs to work, which is eventually what mankind will achieve.

Either that or carry on as we are, whilst making sure to manipulate birth rates so that they fall, therefore the population can fall somewhat over the years so there are less povert people.

Sounds very much what they are trying to do just now, and I support long-term indirect depopulation in terms of birth rates, rather than through poverty and disease/wars.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Hello there,

I am a long time lurker on the forums I read almost daily, I just made this account to reply to this absolutely ridiculous thread.

I work for Seetec, we are a Prime Provider and we pilot a scheme called the Back to work scheme or in other words we are one of the Prime Provider Work Programmes.

When you get referred from the Job centre to a Work programme you either get transferred to Pap-worth or to us at Seetec. Pap-worth is another provider who do the same as we do but in a smaller capacity. There is different criteria for being referred for under 21's claiming for more then 6 to 8 months you get referred after that period, Criminals get instant referral and in some cases so do the Homeless.


You yourself kindly put it you are homeless your situation for being sanctioned is clearly due to ignoring what you was mandated to do as part of your agreement. When you come to the work programme we only get you in once a month for a mandated Work programme review. We then will request you to come in once or twice per month for mandated job searches. This is ALL paid for if it requires travel costs, if you were to get interviews or needed clothes for interviews and or materials for jobs we pay for this too.

We do not forcefully make people work for nothing, if you found yourself doing "voluntary work" via the job centre for a "work programme" it was not through the back to work programme scheme (Seetec/Papworth) and you was wrongfully put forward to something you clearly did not know the full extent of. However from what I read from your post you just sound like you really clearly exaggerating.

I suggest instead of coming onto Abovetopsecret to slander the mouth that feeds you that you fix your situation.

The safety net is there to help people, the sanctions come strong and hard for the people who abuse our system.
If you have been sanctioned at any time in the previous 52 weeks then if you get sanctioned again when you rapid reclaim then you are vulnerable to being sanctioned at tier two level ie 56 weeks.

And thats my first post.

Originally posted by allnamestaken
Hello there,

I am a long time lurker on the forums I read almost daily, I just made this account to reply to this absolutely ridiculous thread.

I work for Seetec, we are a Prime Provider and we pilot a scheme called the Back to work scheme or in other words we are one of the Prime Provider Work Programmes.

When you get referred from the Job centre to a Work programme you either get transferred to Pap-worth or to us at Seetec. Pap-worth is another provider who do the same as we do but in a smaller capacity. There is different criteria for being referred for under 21's claiming for more then 6 to 8 months you get referred after that period, Criminals get instant referral and in some cases so do the Homeless.


You yourself kindly put it you are homeless your situation for being sanctioned is clearly due to ignoring what you was mandated to do as part of your agreement. When you come to the work programme we only get you in once a month for a mandated Work programme review. We then will request you to come in once or twice per month for mandated job searches. This is ALL paid for if it requires travel costs, if you were to get interviews or needed clothes for interviews and or materials for jobs we pay for this too.

We do not forcefully make people work for nothing, if you found yourself doing "voluntary work" via the job centre for a "work programme" it was not through the back to work programme scheme (Seetec/Papworth) and you was wrongfully put forward to something you clearly did not know the full extent of. However from what I read from your post you just sound like you really clearly exaggerating.

I suggest instead of coming onto Abovetopsecret to slander the mouth that feeds you that you fix your situation.

The safety net is there to help people, the sanctions come strong and hard for the people who abuse our system.
If you have been sanctioned at any time in the previous 52 weeks then if you get sanctioned again when you rapid reclaim then you are vulnerable to being sanctioned at tier two level ie 56 weeks.

And thats my first post.

edit on 23-10-2012 by allnamestaken because: Made mistakes.

Sooooo blooody what?

You are a troll and you could not even hide it

The stats you have spewed, i already knew a while back

Fear monger is what you are..you may get sanction, but there is another benefit to be claimed********

FFS wake up you heartless in a job sheep

One day you will be in the same situation...who will you go for help...

reply to post by allnamestaken


confused.com

That was a triumphant entry wasn't it. AH

reply to post by cody599

However if you log on to the jobseekers web site there is plenty of work

Well I don't know what it is like in England but in Ireland pretty much every single job is an internship that pays NOTHING. You just keep on getting your job seekers.

Now that is OK if you are young, but I and coming up 65 and even the internship offering employers are not interested in me.

So sorry buddy it is NOT always the case that you can get a job if you want one.

Its about time they started doing something, I have worked for over 30 years and never have i had to pay so many taxes to ensure those who cant be bothered or find something to bemoan about each and every job get free food free housing and free clothes when they decide they have worked hard enough for one week.

Polish Ukranians and other foreigners are finding jobs everywhere so stop whinging and relying on people, Get of your arse and help get this country back on its feet.

reply to post by paulmac


It's about time you found out how much of your taxes actually pay for whingers mate. Also you have NOT read all the posts. 90% of it goes to places you wouldn't believe deserve it, about 1% to "Scroungers". Oh, and I've never claimed it before we start another pointless interjection.

SOC Code:6115Wage
£10.45 per hour
Hours
10-40 PER WEEK, OVER 7 DAYS, DAYS/EVENINGS/WEEKENDS
Location
Newark, Notts NG22
Duration

05 October 2012
Pension details
No details held
Description
Must be 18+. AMG require community care workers to join our rapid response team, to provide palliative care to clients returning home from hospital within the Newark area. Candidates must be reliable and flexible with a caring nature. Experience is preferred but not essential as training will be provided. Car driver with own vehicle would be preferred. The role will include all aspects of care work including personal care. AMG are an equal opportunities employer. Successful applicants are required to provide an enhanced disclosure. Disclosure expense will be met by applicant. The employer has claimed an exception under the Equality Act 2010.
How to apply
You can apply for this job by telephoning 0115 9827121 and asking for Recruitment.

This is from jobseekers website .

Many carer jobs are available and some of them pay upto £ 10.40 per hour .