How does Obama treat his voters opposed to Johnson... Take a look at the emails.

reply to post by flyswatter


Trying to implement small change results in compromising in even smaller change. Trying to incur grandiose change forces compromising on some change, likely greater than what is even proposed with small change--if that makes sense.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I'm just hung up on where he finds 1.3 trillion.. I don't see it to cut without basically going to full blown, no holds barred WAR with Congress in a way this nation hasn't seen since the Early 1800's. It would be interesting!

The military budget alone is over a trillion a year half of which goes to the war effort bringing the troops home from around the world and ending the wars would be way over half in one felled swoop probably at least 700 billion and the president does not need to congress to do that. That would be one hell of a start!

reply to post by hawkiye


Hmmm... I'm going to refrain from comment until you've had the time to take a look at two links I have to share. I am well aware and completely understand why most people have not read the original source documents of what the media thoroughly spins and butchers before calling it something like news and actually keeping a straight face while saying it. If, after you look over these...you can still make the same argument, I'll eagerly await a very interesting debate.

The first one is what you might call the quick reference version of the United States Federal Budget for Fiscal Year 2013, on it's assumptions and projections every year out to 2022.

U.S. Federal Budget / FY 2013 / Assumptions and Projectons 2010-2022

That link there has everything. All of it. Defense, HHS, HUD, Treasury, Veterans Affairs, Indian Affairs and when you get down to the end, it includes assumptions of future Unemployment, GDP, Interest rates and the like. Every single number that was required to form the 2013 Budget proposal as produced by the White House.


This one...makes me feel downright bad. I spent weeks in the old fashioned endless chain of PDF files version of the budget to build the graphics boards of the thread linked in my signature. I'm sure he had a staff on this though, and that sure would have been nice. I think you'll love the interactive nature of exploring all the major line items of the whole budget. It also gives you the ability to change anything and have a running total kept for what it comes down to. A simulation, after you're done exploring the actual numbers..if you choose to on this one. I've looked over it...the numbers all seem to match pretty much what I saw through the pages of the White House documents themselves..so he did a hell of a job making that.

U.S. Federal Buget in a User Friendly and Interactive format.

I have school..so I won't even be back till after 9pm Central tonight. I'll wander back and see what you thought. By the defense budget number I can just figure you hadn't seen quite this sort of layout for the numbers as the White House just published it all.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



Well I looked at your links but do not have time to really dig in to them in depth Your first link seem irrelevent since it is only projected.but what I can gather so far the second link says the DOD spent 738.2 billion but it does not include Iraq and Afghanistan wars which are usually listed in the budget as over seas contingencies and are considered off budget. Iraq alone was costing us 500 billion if I remember correctly that easily gets us over the 1 trillion mark and Afghanistan was about 300 billion I believe... So ending those wars and bringing the troops home from around the world should cut spending dramatically as i pointed out. What am I missing?

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


How is Obama anti gun? He hasn't done anything about guns the whole time he's been in office. Romney is the one signing gun bans.

reply to post by sonnny1

Excellent post. Like I've been saying ... except for their stand with Israel, there isn't much daylight between Obama and Romney on the major issues. It doesn't matter if it's Romney or Obama who wins .. they are pretty much the same person.

You realize voting for Gary Johnson is the same as voting for Obama, right?

Obama's emails are better because they give graphic designers a job.

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by PhysicsAdept

 

How is Obama anti gun? He hasn't done anything about guns the whole time he's been in office. Romney is the one signing gun bans.

In the last debate Obama went on about "machine guns" and restating the "assault weapons ban". His dishonestly about the the AWB is enough to be skeptical. He also claimed:



If he gets another term, he'll go after guns. There is no doubt in my mind.

reply to post by PvtHudson


Romney signed an assault weapons ban when he was governor. Selective memory?

Nothing in that Obama video you linked was anti-gun....lollllllll. He said a lot of mid-western conservatives cling to guns, and they do. I live around a ton of them. Obama said something we all know.

If he gets another term, he'll go after guns. There is no doubt in my mind.

In your paranoid deluded NRA world..yup. He's gonna take everyone's guns.

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Trying to implement small change results in compromising in even smaller change. Trying to incur grandiose change forces compromising on some change, likely greater than what is even proposed with small change--if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense, I understand exactly what you are getting at. He'd be smart to ask for more than he thinks he will actually get. But he needs to remember that even when shooting from the hip with this kind of negotiation tactic, he still needs to begin at a point that is within reason. He needs the proposal to be seen as tough, but not out-of-this-world drastic.

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of reducing spending and a balanced budget and all, but not his way of implementing it.

reply to post by 3chainz


Uh wow. Yeah he sure is good at temporary employment. And 3 people's jobs are totally going to fix the economy .

I love when he made last year's state of the union address and was boating about all the jobs he made... Many of which were seasonal or temporary, minimum wage, etc...

reply to post by flyswatter

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of reducing spending and a balanced budget and all, but not his way of implementing it.

I suppose we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree then (though I still think I am right haha )

What exactly is your proposal then? Which candidate has a better viewpoint?

reply to post by hawkiye

You'd missed what I posted them to highlight and I don't have my notebooks with me at school to flip to page and table # for which precise spt the D.O.D. and National Security expenditures are broken down to painful detail.

My military board on the budget thread was not designed to show this..and probably should have been or one more added specifically FOR this. The deliberate misunderstandings created and fostered by both the media and politicians regarding the budget and spending are why I spent the weeks I did to make what I created. ...Alas...I did miss a couple areas due to time and self-'inflicted' deadlines to get it out.

Lemmie see..and I'll get something up in a few hours, from those links, that will better highlight how those relate to this. I'm not going to get the least bit snarky or crappy about it...this is FAR FAR too important to the survival of our nation the our Children's ability to have any quality of life at all...to play games with it.

BTW..... The first link is based primarily in projections. It's useful for current matters because it also goes BACK to 2010 in most tables to give a true sense of where we've recently been on almost all areas and line items....where we are now....and where this specific Administration sees the nation being to 2022 and every year in between. It's valuable in that sense.

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
So I received an email from both candidates on the same day a few days ago... I figured it is good to know your enemy (and also good to keep an open mind

) so I signed up for Obama's emailing list, and I thought it was very funny to see the contrast between the two candidates...


Obama
Part I

Part II

Part III


Johnson




I mean you have colorful pictures, little to no information on anything, and assumptions based off of incompetencies from Obama hahahahaha, and then a nice little comparative data chart provided by third party candidate Gary Johnson.

Really contrasts the two candidates nicely, eh? If anyone has a good Romney one, I would enjoy that. I did not sign up for his list yet, deep down I just don't really care I suppose

Americans are not interested in facts and data, they are interested in bravado and bull#

Hmm... a quickie note and all I'm saying more on it.. However, I did commit to some data on this thread and I'm guessing by the nature of it, more than one was likely interested in seeing it. This was among the boards left out of the budget thread, as noted. That's never set right with me..because this is a critical area. Defense Spending, I mean. So rather than throw a couple numbers that won't mean anything more than any other few numbers...I'm building the board I should have for the complete set at the time.

For anyone interested..I'll have it B4 the election and it'll be sourced 10 ways from Sunday, like the others that form my budget thread set for all other major Gov't areas. So..that was it. I wouldn't want anyone thinking I'm a a guy to say that and then just vanish though.

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of reducing spending and a balanced budget and all, but not his way of implementing it.

I suppose we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree then

(though I still think I am right haha

)

What exactly is your proposal then? Which candidate has a better viewpoint?

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhysicsAdept because: (no reason given)

Who has a better viewpoint? Good question, and one that I dont really have an answer for at the moment. But then again, I never was trying to argue the point of who had the best idea for financial reform. I was just commeting that this particular candidate may be good with his intentions of financial reform, but the method of getting that done is not one that I agree with.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd probably say that I dont fully agree with any of the candidates and their ideas for financial reform. Johnson just happens to be the most out of whack from my viewpoints and beliefs.

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
So I received an email from both candidates on the same day a few days ago... I figured it is good to know your enemy (and also good to keep an open mind

) so I signed up for Obama's emailing list, and I thought it was very funny to see the contrast between the two candidates...


Obama
Part I

Part II

Part III


Johnson




I mean you have colorful pictures, little to no information on anything, and assumptions based off of incompetencies from Obama hahahahaha, and then a nice little comparative data chart provided by third party candidate Gary Johnson.

Really contrasts the two candidates nicely, eh? If anyone has a good Romney one, I would enjoy that. I did not sign up for his list yet, deep down I just don't really care I suppose

I want no part of a candidate that wants to abolish the Fed, balance the budget, and cut both military and medicare spending, all "immediately" as he states. The knee-jerk reactions are bad enough, but geezus ... the Fed doesnt need to be abolished, it needs to be reformed. Cutting 43% of military budget and 43% of medicare spending? Holy unemployment and deathbeds, Batman. Balance the budget immediately? He's delusional, that's not a "just do it" kind of thing, its gonna take at least a bit of time.

I'm not saying that Obama and Romney are saints by any means, but Gary Johnson would be the bull in a china shop that would destroy us.

At first, I thought you might just be piling on the sarcasm, but then I read your whole post and it is obvious that you are serious about what you have said. And thats OK because many people really don't know a whole lot about the federal reserve. Its beginnings in 1913, and how our country is going to fail miserably if we keep the federal reserve system in place. It may be a few years or a few decades, but our dollar is going to collapse and be worth nothing soon. You have the federal reserve to thank for that. It needs to go, and it should have been gone in the 90's when our country was going through an economic boom. The fed needs to go away and our currency needs to be based on a solid commodity like gold or silver, instead of our good faith and the paper it is printed on. I am a nurse, and I will tell you the same thing I have said to others. If my pay has to be cut in half in order to get us out of the financial disaster we find ourselves in, via cuts in medicare and medicaid, then so be it. It is better than not having the dollar I have in my pocket be worth anything. And we need to balance our budget as soon as humanly possible, and get our financial house in order like Vladimir Putin did in Russia.
Get a clue, read the constitution, and know what your rights are and that our government was founded to protect you, not take care of you.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


WOW no wonder he got 65% of the vote from children who watched Nickelodeon um err I mean their parents, same difference.

Originally posted by PvtHudson
You realize voting for Gary Johnson is the same as voting for Obama, right?

This doesn't make any sense at all. How could voting for one human being running for the office of the president be the same as voting for another human being running under a different party? Is this some kind of collectivist trickery brainwashing? How many of us are going to eat this up with our breakfast? To say that you might as well not vote for someone because its no use? How many here will feel good at the end of the day because they voted their conscience, and not for the two evil twins running for the same party with different names?
I know I will.
If Ron Paul was on the write in list in the state of Texas, I would write him in. I am voting for Gary Johnson now. I will be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't contribute to this countries eventual trip to hell in a hand basket.