reply to post by Mads1987
sigh -what is the monetary value of the " aid " carried by these " aid convoys " - you dismiss $250 million in aid from the govt of qatar as "
inadequate " - get a grip - " the aid convoys " are a joke - carrying a few tons of " aid " worth a few thousand dollars - its a joke - they
spend more on fuel than they do on cargo
Israel seizes pro-Palestinian activist ship off Gaza, page 2
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 01:12 PM by stephenca
reply to post by Mads1987
IF THERE IS A VIOLATION OF THE TERRITORIAL LAW, I THINK THE IMMEDIATE SEIZURE IS RIGHT BUT AFTER A BRIEF NEGOCIATION BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES, THE SHIP CAN BE RELEASED BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS
THESE ARABS CANNOT BE TRUSTED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. MAY BE; IT WAS AN AGGRESSION TO TEST THE ISRAELI`S SECURITY AND FAILURE ON THE ISRAELITES PART TO ACT, MAY BRING A FURTHER VIOLENT ATTACK
stephenca
IF THERE IS A VIOLATION OF THE TERRITORIAL LAW, I THINK THE IMMEDIATE SEIZURE IS RIGHT BUT AFTER A BRIEF NEGOCIATION BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES, THE SHIP CAN BE RELEASED BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS
THESE ARABS CANNOT BE TRUSTED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. MAY BE; IT WAS AN AGGRESSION TO TEST THE ISRAELI`S SECURITY AND FAILURE ON THE ISRAELITES PART TO ACT, MAY BRING A FURTHER VIOLENT ATTACK
stephenca
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 03:24 PM by dontreally
reply to post by Mads1987
So ignore the blockade, in other words??
What do you think that would mean, practically? If Israel permits "one ship" to pass through, and so flout Israel's blockade, what sort of message would that send to others? That they too could succeed in ignoring Israels blockade. It would establish a precedent.
The blockade is in place because since 2001, Palestinian terror groups in Gaza have fired over 10,000 rockets at southern Israeli cities, towns, and villages, leading Israel to impose the blockade.
Thus, the blockade is understandable. And so is Israel's need to intercept every foreign 'humanitarian' who seeks for some monomaniacal reason to undermine it.
So ignore the blockade, in other words??
What do you think that would mean, practically? If Israel permits "one ship" to pass through, and so flout Israel's blockade, what sort of message would that send to others? That they too could succeed in ignoring Israels blockade. It would establish a precedent.
The blockade is in place because since 2001, Palestinian terror groups in Gaza have fired over 10,000 rockets at southern Israeli cities, towns, and villages, leading Israel to impose the blockade.
Thus, the blockade is understandable. And so is Israel's need to intercept every foreign 'humanitarian' who seeks for some monomaniacal reason to undermine it.
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 03:31 PM by sonnny1
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Mads1987
So ignore the blockade, in other words??
What do you think that would mean, practically? If Israel permits "one ship" to pass through, and so flout Israel's blockade, what sort of message would that send to others? That they too could succeed in ignoring Israels blockade. It would establish a precedent.
The blockade is in place because since 2001, Palestinian terror groups in Gaza have fired over 10,000 rockets at southern Israeli cities, towns, and villages, leading Israel to impose the blockade.
Thus, the blockade is understandable. And so is Israel's need to intercept every foreign 'humanitarian' who seeks for some monomaniacal reason to undermine it.
I don't think Israel can stop anything from getting into Gaza.
Period.
This is more of a symbolic seizing.
Among the quantities arriving daily by tunnel, according to UN figures collected from local merchants, are 800,000 liters (around 5,000 barrels) of fuel, 3,000 tons of gravel, 500 tons of steel rods and 3,000 tons of cement -- about as much as Israel shifts in a week. On one visit in October, I counted a truck pulling out of the complex every three minutes.
Gaza's Tunnel Complex
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 04:20 PM by dontreally
reply to post by sonnny1
Israel doesn't want ships entering Gaza port without Israeli oversight. But yes, they have no problem of allowing humanitarian aid entering Gaza through acceptable channels.
If by "symbolic" you mean, Israel wants to avoid establishing a precedence, than yes. But in fact, it's more a practical concern. If it happens once, it's likely to happen again and again. Israel therefore for reasons of the security of it's citizens must work to prevent ships from docking in Gaza.
I find it incredible that so many people have trouble accepting the legitimacy of Israels blockade
Yeah, well, Israel can only control what is in their power to control. Egypt has recently lifted the restrictions on the passage of construction materials into the Gaza strip, which only adds to Israeli worries.
I don't think Israel can stop anything from getting into Gaza.
Israel doesn't want ships entering Gaza port without Israeli oversight. But yes, they have no problem of allowing humanitarian aid entering Gaza through acceptable channels.
This is more of a symbolic seizing.
If by "symbolic" you mean, Israel wants to avoid establishing a precedence, than yes. But in fact, it's more a practical concern. If it happens once, it's likely to happen again and again. Israel therefore for reasons of the security of it's citizens must work to prevent ships from docking in Gaza.
I find it incredible that so many people have trouble accepting the legitimacy of Israels blockade
Gaza's Tunnel Complex
Yeah, well, Israel can only control what is in their power to control. Egypt has recently lifted the restrictions on the passage of construction materials into the Gaza strip, which only adds to Israeli worries.
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 05:49 PM by dontreally
reply to post by sonnny1
But you nevertheless brought up a good point about the Egypt-Gaza border.
Already we see how "workable" a peace with Egypt is. It's not. The period of peace is over. Egypt's lifting restrictions for "construction material" is code for "weapons".
As Caroline Glick so aptly pointed out in a recent Jerusalem Post article:
"The peace was made with a regime. And once the regime ended, the peace was over. The fact that the peace was contingent on the survival of the regime that made it was utterly predictable."
So, truthseeker101, who started that deplorable thread which imagines the Muslim Brotherhood as a 'viable' peace partner - already we see how absolutely inane that claim is. And this is only the beginning. Not even 6 months from Morsys taking office.
In short, anyone who knows anything about Morsy, the Brotherhood, knows that Egypt will jump at the first opportunity to restart a conflict with Israel.
But you nevertheless brought up a good point about the Egypt-Gaza border.
Already we see how "workable" a peace with Egypt is. It's not. The period of peace is over. Egypt's lifting restrictions for "construction material" is code for "weapons".
As Caroline Glick so aptly pointed out in a recent Jerusalem Post article:
"The peace was made with a regime. And once the regime ended, the peace was over. The fact that the peace was contingent on the survival of the regime that made it was utterly predictable."
So, truthseeker101, who started that deplorable thread which imagines the Muslim Brotherhood as a 'viable' peace partner - already we see how absolutely inane that claim is. And this is only the beginning. Not even 6 months from Morsys taking office.
In short, anyone who knows anything about Morsy, the Brotherhood, knows that Egypt will jump at the first opportunity to restart a conflict with Israel.
edit on 20-10-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 08:09 PM by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Mads1987
So who is the bully when Hamas fires rockets into Israel from Gaza, but provokes Israel to retaliate just so Hamas can point the finger and say "see their violent!"
Who was the bully when 5 arab nations gathered against Israel in the 6 day war? 5 V 1, thats bully mentality. Oh let's not forget the grand Mufti during WWII arousing up muslims in WWII to kill sephardic jews.
Now i'm not saying Israel is always innocent, they do plenty on their own, but neither am i going to say Palestine is innocent either. This has been an ongoing proxy war for over 60 years.
I usually try to justify both sides of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, but for a while now I think it has become clear that Israel is the bully - and as they say, all bullies were once a victim.
So who is the bully when Hamas fires rockets into Israel from Gaza, but provokes Israel to retaliate just so Hamas can point the finger and say "see their violent!"
Who was the bully when 5 arab nations gathered against Israel in the 6 day war? 5 V 1, thats bully mentality. Oh let's not forget the grand Mufti during WWII arousing up muslims in WWII to kill sephardic jews.
Now i'm not saying Israel is always innocent, they do plenty on their own, but neither am i going to say Palestine is innocent either. This has been an ongoing proxy war for over 60 years.
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 08:36 PM by Mads1987
reply to post by ignorant_ape
I NEVER dismissed the 250 million which you mentioned, on the contrary I actually said that I was glad that someone was investing in the country. I simply tried to explain to you that this is far from enough to rebuild a country, and therefore I think any extra aid, no matter how small, is important and necessary if Palestine is to have a future. Furthermore, the 250 mil were going to very specific development projects, and there is therefore still plenty of room left for improvement.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
Sigh - right back at you!
I NEVER dismissed the 250 million which you mentioned, on the contrary I actually said that I was glad that someone was investing in the country. I simply tried to explain to you that this is far from enough to rebuild a country, and therefore I think any extra aid, no matter how small, is important and necessary if Palestine is to have a future. Furthermore, the 250 mil were going to very specific development projects, and there is therefore still plenty of room left for improvement.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
Sigh - right back at you!
edit on 06/06/12 by Mads1987 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 08:49 PM by Mads1987
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Mads1987
I usually try to justify both sides of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, but for a while now I think it has become clear that Israel is the bully - and as they say, all bullies were once a victim.
So who is the bully when Hamas fires rockets into Israel from Gaza, but provokes Israel to retaliate just so Hamas can point the finger and say "see their violent!"
Who was the bully when 5 arab nations gathered against Israel in the 6 day war? 5 V 1, thats bully mentality. Oh let's not forget the grand Mufti during WWII arousing up muslims in WWII to kill sephardic jews.
Now i'm not saying Israel is always innocent, they do plenty on their own, but neither am i going to say Palestine is innocent either. This has been an ongoing proxy war for over 60 years.
I think we are pretty much in agreement.
I do think that Israel have been the victim in most if not all of the cases you mention. Forgive me for not being familiar with all of them.
But victims do have a tendency to let themselves be controlled by their fear and sometimes think they have to protect themselves or even attack others, even when there is no real danger around.
It's like Yoda said.
Fear is the path of the dark side. Fear leads to anger. anger leads to hate. hate leads to suffering... I sense much fear in jew.
Hehe.
Sorry, don't hope I am stepping on anybodies toes.
edit on 06/06/12 by Mads1987 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 08:52 PM by badgerprints
Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by DerekJR321
egypt has a land border - why doesnt egypt allow unlimited aid ?
I have often wondered this myself. The MFO patrols the Sinai but only to insure the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. They don't interrupt commerce between Egypt and Israel.
Egypt is now in the hands of a new government.
edit on 20-10-2012 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 20-10-2012 @ 09:00 PM by cmdrkeenkid
Not all of the Gaza aid ships have been just carrying aid. They have hidden weapons in them before, and will surely try again. They set a bad
precedent by attempting to hide weapons in them, meaning that all the ships have to be searched.
Also, to say that concrete lacks military applications is rather naive. It's used in bunkers, roads, tunnels, trenches, and so much more.
Israel: Ship Seized Carrying Sophisticated Weapons To Gaza Strip March 15, 2011
Also, don't forget that the "activists" in the Aid Flotilla were hardly peaceful. Many of them were wielding knives, slingshots, and other improvised weapons. They also used stun grenades taken from Israeli troops, if I recall correctly. There were some other banned items, which were not weapons but items commonly used in combat, on the Aid Flotilla.
Wheelchairs as well as weapons found on board aid ships June 3, 2010
Also, to say that concrete lacks military applications is rather naive. It's used in bunkers, roads, tunnels, trenches, and so much more.
Israel: Ship Seized Carrying Sophisticated Weapons To Gaza Strip March 15, 2011
The navy's deputy commander, Brig. Gen. Rani Ben-Yehudah, said investigators had found between two and four Chinese-made C-704 missiles, which land-based forces can use to attack ships.
Also, don't forget that the "activists" in the Aid Flotilla were hardly peaceful. Many of them were wielding knives, slingshots, and other improvised weapons. They also used stun grenades taken from Israeli troops, if I recall correctly. There were some other banned items, which were not weapons but items commonly used in combat, on the Aid Flotilla.
Wheelchairs as well as weapons found on board aid ships June 3, 2010
Other items that won’t be transferred to Gaza are the weapons and military equipment found aboard the Mavi Marmara. These include knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks and night vision goggles.
reply posted on 21-10-2012 @ 12:20 AM by dontreally
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni
Kill the Jews, eh?? Get rid of the servants of demiurge? Those protectors of the old world order?
Put into philosophical terms, why you hate those Jews so much. It'd be far more interesting.
It can be only Tel Aviv, ok?
Kill the Jews, eh?? Get rid of the servants of demiurge? Those protectors of the old world order?
Put into philosophical terms, why you hate those Jews so much. It'd be far more interesting.
reply posted on 21-10-2012 @ 12:33 AM by cmdrkeenkid
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni
A slingshot can be a pretty effective weapon. They require very little training, almost anyone can use one, and ammunition can be anything from stones to ball bearings. They can actually severely injure and even kill a person.
The important part, which was why I quoted the one section, was not the wheelchairs on the aid flotilla, but the "knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks and night vision goggles." Especially those last three, which I italicized.
Please show some decorum.
EDIT TO ADD:
Slingshots are currently being used by Syrian rebels to launch homemade explosives towards Assad's troops. Here is an article on that, as well as several other depicting military and insurgency uses of slingshots.
Syria's slingshot squadron: Dramatic pictures show rebels using homemade catapult to launch bombs at Assad's troops
Deadly Baghdad blast leaves survivors struggling Pictures 3 and 4, specifically.
In Video, Hussein Uses Slingshots and Bows to Rally Iraqis for War
Samaria Road Attack Weapon: Slingshot Slingshot used in an attack, luckily no one was hurt, but the metal balls used were able to leave holes in the car similar to bullet holes.
Slingshot, Y-Shot Slingshots are also becoming popular with preppers, though more for hunting. Here is an example of a popular one.
A slingshot can be a pretty effective weapon. They require very little training, almost anyone can use one, and ammunition can be anything from stones to ball bearings. They can actually severely injure and even kill a person.
The important part, which was why I quoted the one section, was not the wheelchairs on the aid flotilla, but the "knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks and night vision goggles." Especially those last three, which I italicized.
Please show some decorum.
EDIT TO ADD:
Slingshots are currently being used by Syrian rebels to launch homemade explosives towards Assad's troops. Here is an article on that, as well as several other depicting military and insurgency uses of slingshots.
Syria's slingshot squadron: Dramatic pictures show rebels using homemade catapult to launch bombs at Assad's troops
Deadly Baghdad blast leaves survivors struggling Pictures 3 and 4, specifically.
In Video, Hussein Uses Slingshots and Bows to Rally Iraqis for War
edit on 10/21/2012 by cmdrkeenkid because: Added some text.
Samaria Road Attack Weapon: Slingshot Slingshot used in an attack, luckily no one was hurt, but the metal balls used were able to leave holes in the car similar to bullet holes.
Slingshot, Y-Shot Slingshots are also becoming popular with preppers, though more for hunting. Here is an example of a popular one.
edit on 10/21/2012 by cmdrkeenkid because: Added a couple more links.
reply posted on 21-10-2012 @ 04:06 AM by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by cmdrkeenkid
Ok Ok I surrender...
Its obvious the slingshot is highly efficient... Iraq... saddam hussein... aaaaand syrian rebels. Hey, those slingshots really worked for them huh!?
Now... seriously, can you give me examples of anyone using slingshots that are actually winning at any war?
Damn you make this so funny. Thanks!
I'll have to tell my mates, next time we're going in with slingshots. Maybe with acogs strapped in ducktape it might as well work! Hey... by yer example it did good with saddam didnt it lov? A rock for each ping ... lovely mate!
We'll be bloody rich after also... selling top notch sopmod slingshots! I'll brand it Tactical Sling sopmod (includes railings for all kinds of fancy scopes and laser pointers (will come in 3 colors as you know) and maybe a 2-pound rock heavy sling attachment... yep that'll work!
10 bloody years and we never thought of slingshots... all that training and nothing on slingshots.
EDIT: oh and I didnt mention those three because in 10 or 11 years I never tried to beat the bloody hell out of anyone with a vest, with a gas mask or even with my goggles. Maybe it works tho... you try it and tell me afterwards how aggressive and dangerous those items are will ya mate?
Ok Ok I surrender...
Its obvious the slingshot is highly efficient... Iraq... saddam hussein... aaaaand syrian rebels. Hey, those slingshots really worked for them huh!?
Now... seriously, can you give me examples of anyone using slingshots that are actually winning at any war?
Damn you make this so funny.
Thanks! I'll have to tell my mates, next time we're going in with slingshots. Maybe with acogs strapped in ducktape it might as well work! Hey... by yer example it did good with saddam didnt it lov? A rock for each ping ... lovely mate!
We'll be bloody rich after also... selling top notch sopmod slingshots! I'll brand it Tactical Sling sopmod (includes railings for all kinds of fancy scopes and laser pointers (will come in 3 colors as you know) and maybe a 2-pound rock heavy sling attachment... yep that'll work!
10 bloody years and we never thought of slingshots... all that training and nothing on slingshots.
EDIT: oh and I didnt mention those three because in 10 or 11 years I never tried to beat the bloody hell out of anyone with a vest, with a gas mask or even with my goggles. Maybe it works tho... you try it and tell me afterwards how aggressive and dangerous those items are will ya mate?
edit
on 21-10-2012 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-10-2012 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason
given)
reply posted on 21-10-2012 @ 04:15 AM by FraternitasSaturni
Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni
It can be only Tel Aviv, ok?
Kill the Jews, eh?? Get rid of the servants of demiurge? Those protectors of the old world order?
Put into philosophical terms, why you hate those Jews so much. It'd be far more interesting.
I dont mate! I just find those jews in wheelchairs and slingshots too dangerous! Ever seen how fast they go on those things? Now imagine a bloody 50cal attached! Nop, way too dangerous.
reply posted on 21-10-2012 @ 06:39 AM by Mads1987
reply to post by Pervius
Okay, that was certainly a new twist to an already complex story.
Would you care to elaborate on your theory. Do you know who this Mr. X character is, who allegedly pulls the strings, since you assume I would laugh my rear off if I were to learn the truth.
Is it Jim Carrey? That guy always makes me laugh.
Okay, that was certainly a new twist to an already complex story.
Would you care to elaborate on your theory. Do you know who this Mr. X character is, who allegedly pulls the strings, since you assume I would laugh my rear off if I were to learn the truth.
Is it Jim Carrey? That guy always makes me laugh.
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