Israel seizes pro-Palestinian activist ship off Gaza

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posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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Israel seizes pro-Palestinian activist ship off Gaza


www.reuters.com

The Israeli navy seized an international pro-Palestinian activist ship in the Mediterranean sea on Saturday to prevent it breaching its blockade of the Gaza Strip, a military spokeswoman said.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.reuters.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla




posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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This is something which happens from time to time. Luckily this time the Israeli army didn't kill anybody, as they did when a similar ship was stopped two years back and 9 activist, one of which was apparently a holocaust survivor, was killed.

The blockage does follow international conventions, but I think it is ridiculous that a ship carrying humanitarian cargo such as cement, and goodwill items such as children's books, has to be seized by a small fleet.

I usually try to justify both sides of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, but for a while now I think it has become clear that Israel is the bully - and as they say, all bullies were once a victim.

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Might have posted this thread under the wrong subject/area or what ever it is called. Not quite alternative news. Forgot to take that into account. Feel free to move my thread.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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Looks like the Israeli pirates strike again. As far as the blockade being legal that depends on who you are talking to.

U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal


The so-called Palmer Report on the Israeli raid of May 2010 that killed nine Turkish activists said earlier this month that Israel had used unreasonable force in last year's raid, but its naval blockade of the Hamas-ruled strip was legal. A panel of five independent U.N. rights experts reporting to the U.N. Human Rights Council rejected that conclusion, saying the blockade had subjected Gazans to collective punishment in "flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law."



"In pronouncing itself on the legality of the naval blockade, the Palmer Report does not recognize the naval blockade as an integral part of Israel's closure policy toward Gaza which has a disproportionate impact on the human rights of civilians," they said in a joint statement.


Everyone is always crying that Israel has a right to defend themselves so why doesn't Gazans have that same right?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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Personally speaking, I can see nothing to justify the blockade of Gaza extending to vessels which carry only the most rudimentary and basic supplies, none of which can be used in a meaningfully militaristic way, especially the childrens books.

Surely if Israel wants to continue the blockade, they should be forced by wieght of international pressure to allow purely humanitarian supplies, medical supplies, and the like to flow through under vetting? Surely there can be no justification for putting the area under such savage and uncompromising seige?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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If those ships want to dock at a port where what everyone says is no problem to see can BE seen, Israel doesn't block it. Gaza has a quite a luxury shopping mall, in fact, if anyone wants to google it. It was quite a ..confusing...statement of affairs over there when it opened a few years back

Anyway... The alternative is to just kinda sorta HOPE they have the cargo they declare as it's delivered directly to Hamas....who literally are the Gaza Government. They are among those that absolutely refuse, under any conditions, to recognize Israel or rescind the concept of total destruction being a really good thing to work toward.

However anyone feels about the conflict, allowing blue water cargo ships to dock right into the Self-declared and enthusiastic enemy (still firing into Israel on a regular basis) would be terminally stupid, bordering on willfully suicidal for the Israeli's. There has to be some logic allowed into this somewhere for their self defense....or are they just to interfere in no way at all and wait for the inevitable war?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If those ships want to dock at a port where what everyone says is no problem to see can BE seen, Israel doesn't block it. Gaza has a quite a luxury shopping mall, in fact, if anyone wants to google it. It was quite a ..confusing...statement of affairs over there when it opened a few years back

Anyway... The alternative is to just kinda sorta HOPE they have the cargo they declare as it's delivered directly to Hamas....who literally are the Gaza Government. They are among those that absolutely refuse, under any conditions, to recognize Israel or rescind the concept of total destruction being a really good thing to work toward.

However anyone feels about the conflict, allowing blue water cargo ships to dock right into the Self-declared and enthusiastic enemy (still firing into Israel on a regular basis) would be terminally stupid, bordering on willfully suicidal for the Israeli's. There has to be some logic allowed into this somewhere for their self defense....or are they just to interfere in no way at all and wait for the inevitable war?


You seem to overlook that Israel has no legal right to search these ships. For a blockade to be legal you need a declaration of war which Israel doesn't have they claimed the war ended in 2009. Yes Israel claims Hamas fires rockets at them daily strangely enough they never show proof of this not to mention no one is hardly ever hurt or killed. When was the last time someone was killed from a Hamas rocket?



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 

The United Nations official report following the investigation of the killings on the ships Israeli seized during the famous attempt to run the blockade says quite differently and essentially cleared the State of Israel in it's policy of maintaining the blockade by the standards of international law and norms. They were highly critical of other areas of Israel's response.....but if the U.N. had a beef with the blockade itself, that was the best time imaginable to make it. That was the whole point of Turkey demanding the investigation, after all. The UN's failure to even say much for harsh words is also among the biggest reasons Turkey is still anything but tolerant toward Israel at the moment. ...Could even be why Turkey hacked and disabled IFF so Turkish F-16's can lock and fire on Israeli aircraft. That report wasn't taken well.....but the blockade isn't going anywhere.

So.. As much as it's hurt relations with Turkey and many feel what the United Nations has failed to condemn in it's Official investigations is wrong....Well, thats not the way it's held Officially. So...Ships can dock for unload at the Israeli port...or be seized. Everyone knows the rules...and running the blockade is a ZERO possibility of success. That makes this stuff publicity stunt anyway and a dangerous one in any case.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by buster2010
 

The United Nations official report following the investigation of the killings on the ships Israeli seized during the famous attempt to run the blockade says quite differently and essentially cleared the State of Israel in it's policy of maintaining the blockade by the standards of international law and norms. They were highly critical of other areas of Israel's response.....but if the U.N. had a beef with the blockade itself, that was the best time imaginable to make it. That was the whole point of Turkey demanding the investigation, after all. The UN's failure to even say much for harsh words is also among the biggest reasons Turkey is still anything but tolerant toward Israel at the moment. ...Could even be why Turkey hacked and disabled IFF so Turkish F-16's can lock and fire on Israeli aircraft. That report wasn't taken well.....but the blockade isn't going anywhere.

So.. As much as it's hurt relations with Turkey and many feel what the United Nations has failed to condemn in it's Official investigations is wrong....Well, thats not the way it's held Officially. So...Ships can dock for unload at the Israeli port...or be seized. Everyone knows the rules...and running the blockade is a ZERO possibility of success. That makes this stuff publicity stunt anyway and a dangerous one in any case.



Israel attacked those ships in international waters that is an act of piracy. In fact the UN chief called for the blockade to be lifted. Israel has no right to stop any of these ships from docking in Gaza and has no right to inspect them.

UN chief: Israel's blockade on Gaza Strip serves only to bolster extremists in region


United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon warned Israel on Monday that keeping its long-standing blockade of Gaza would only condemn the area's people to lasting poverty and play into the hands of extremists in the Middle East. In a speech to the world body's Human Rights Council, Ban also blamed what he called "indiscriminate rocket fire" into Israel from Hamas-controlled Gaza and serious rights violations there for "the immense human suffering" of its population. "I urge Israel to lift its harsh restrictions in order to ease the plight of civilians and bring an end to the closure," the UN chief declared in a reference to the blockade which the Israel government argues is a security measure.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 

I'm not debating the right or wrong of it..... That's subjective to personal values and political position since there are as many nations who recognize the Blockade as who do not..and again, when the UN was directly asked by a Member Nation (Turkey) to do something about it in a case where actual deaths occurred, the United Nations investigation did not find Israel to be at fault in their use of the Blockade to control arms flow into the Gaza strip and Hamas terrorists. They DID find Israel at fault at the technical distance they boarded the ships vs. the declared line of blockade violation....as I recall by memory and among other things. Israel didn't get a pass in the report...they just kept their program in place without UN arguments.

So.. unless the UN has run through another formal investigation where their actions and words had teeth and not mere statements for the world press to carry, then the one clearing Israel and their overall blockade tactics would seem to be the official position of International law..by those who define and enforce it, anyway.

I fully understand why some very much dislike it..and some people just outright hate everything remotely Israeli on the mere principle it exists in this world. That's everyone's personal right I suppose...but legally? That one was put to bed...good bad or indifferent.

Turkey may have been better off NOT forcing the UN to do that investigation....since the effort to condemn Israel actually served to legally support the whole blockade program in official findings. Errr... ooops.

edit on 20-10-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Mads1987
 


Yes, at least they did not murder 9 people this time.

Anyone who supports this blockade deserves to suffer the same as the people of Gaza.

And to those who say "dock up where you are supposed to"...if they do that the aid never makes it's way...raspberry jam is deemed illegal...wtf




Time for a blockade on Israel.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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They knew what they were going into, and they likely wanted something to happen. Just another media circus to drum up some more Israel hate.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Israel, Always playing the Victim... but the ship was Delegitimizing our right to exist..Holocaust..Nazi..Antisemite.. LOL



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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You know, the tragic thing is...the lowly people actually living in Gaza probably are suffering to a very real degree. Unemployment is nightmarish and median income..well.. It's not nice to even bring up.

However, you know who isn't suffering too badly? Why, Hamas seems to be living quite well..... New Luxury Shopping malls... Fully stocked stores with fresh produce and meat. Well, in some ways, those with the right connections in Gaza city live better than many outside that strip of land.

Perhaps....talking to Hamas as well as the Israelis wouldn't be such a bad idea....as it seems by reading about this mall, many who work in it cannot afford to buy so much as a COKE in it. Nice Government they got, eh? At least misery has some company.....although those poor people get screwed twice. Once from Israel and once from the terrorists they elected and who now live off the backs of their misery. Photos say it all...and here's a bunch to show the "good life" ..for SOME...in a place everyone is supposed to be desperate in.


Photos of Gaza's Luxury Mall and well stocked merchants



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Would you therefore deny that people are suffering in Gaza, and remain unsupported with even the most basic supplies due to the blockade? Do you believe that Israels terrorisation of the population of Gaza, under the banner of preventing attacks by a tiny minority, is any more justified than the rocket bombing of Israeli citizens?
Do you think it is appropriate for Israel to act in an unjustified manner, while bullishly demanding that everyone look the other way, simply because they are surrounded by Arab states?

I have to confess, I find support for this blockade to be less and less justifiable as time wears on. This is not a matter of Israel protecting itself from harm. This is a seige blockade, keeping those that Israel veiws as a lower form of life, in poverty and fear. It serves no other purpose. There is no reason to prevent peaceful aid vessels, which contain no dangerous items, and are specifically NOT running guns to terrorists, from reachig port and delivering thier cargo. It CANNOT be justified.

All the Israeli navy would have to do, in order to ensure that the vessels that come through are actually carrying aid supplies and nothing else, is search the damned vessels. Not a tricky task if thorough training is implemented after all, since such things happen at ports any way. Its called port authority customs officialdom. All the Israelis would have to do is conduct searches of the ships incoming to the port, and clear those that contain no guns, bombs, ammunition, and so on, for entry into the restricted zone. There is no reason also, why representatives of the Israeli Navy could not be sent along with the cargo to ensure that the holds are not then filled with terrorists who have been hiding out, waiting for a chance to escape the strip and attack via a different route after a months holiday in Turkey or Syria, or God help us, Iran.

The only reason the Israelis have, for not conducting themselves in a more even handed and humane manner in this matter, is that honestly, they think the residents of the Gaza Strip to be utterly beneath thier concern. The upper tiers of thier command structure enjoy the idea of these poor unfortunate people starving, freezing, or burning to death. They must, or else they would do something to truely help them. The fact that they do not, means they must be exactly the kinds of psychopaths we all worry that they are.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed


Anyone who supports this blockade deserves to suffer the same as the people of Gaza.



We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Mads1987
 


one wonders what they are hoping to achieve ?

egypt has agreeded that $250 million in aid supplies paid for by the govt of qatar will be routed through egyptian borders

source

so apart from propaganda - what are these " aid ships " doing ?
edit on 20-10-2012 by ignorant_ape because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


I am afraid I have no knowledge of what they are trying to achieve, but considering their cargo I would imagine that they were trying to help some people.
If it is indeed propaganda, I would consider it a very desperat attempt - and either way, the ship was in fact seized.

In regards to the article I would just like to point out that it doesn't say that this money has been invested yet, nor when it will be. I am glad to hear that someone is investing in the development of this country, but I don't think 254 million is nearly enough to rebuild this country. The metro system we have in my hometown Copenhagen, costed more than 2,5 billion dollars to build, so I really don't see what your point is, considering that article you linked say the money is going to roads, infrastructure, housing, and agriculture.
There is not gonna be much left for childrens books.

edit on 06/06/12 by Mads1987 because: (no reason given)
edit on 06/06/12 by Mads1987 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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They were in international waters correct? So it's very simple. Israel had no right to stop, board and arrest the passengers. Period.

Like someone said, thank god no one was killed this time. I'm sure curious what Israels goal is in all of this. Why are they so hell bent on denying aid to Gaza? And I'm asking that sarcastically. I know their goal is nothing more than the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

I hope that they do attack Iran. I really do. Maybe they will learn their lesson. Learn that their conscript army isn't so tough after all.



posted on Oct, 20 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


egypt has a land border - why doesnt egypt allow unlimited aid ?





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