Why you don't need a licence, insurance, tax, etc to "drive" in the UK

reply to post by mee30


Putting words in my mouth it seems, where did I advocate force to drive on the roads! So you believe there should be no rules or standards enforced on the roads because it infringes on your freedom however, driving is a skill that needs training and every country on the planet requires you to obtain a license to prove you can drive properly. In Thailand for example you can just buy a license for about $16.50 (Baht 500) go out and smash up yours and another car because you had no real training - This my maid did recently after I paid for her to have 20 lessons (which they skipped and told her to just pay for the test).

I'm sorry whilst I am a believer in more freedom, it has to have some limits and rules - sensible rules. Whilst I think that the UK tax system is grossly unfair, I do not disagree with the road rules, which are very, very sensible, albeit insurance is very expensive (too epensive I agree).

When I said school teaches us the basics, I meant that it teaches us to read, multiply and write and we have to wake up from this media infested world and wake up.

I'm sorry but Dave is wrong to drive without a license, registration, MOT, insurance or any identification. Who is he to demand I.D. when he has none himself, he thinks he is above the law and sets a different precedent for himself above others, that is not freedom! Freedom needs some logic and basic rules otherwise what you have is anarchy!.

Freedom is not freedom if there is no respect for others, other than yourself, that is called selfishness, plain and simple! Unfortunately, like most countries the UK has laws and Dave broke several therefore he has to face the responsibility for it. By your argumnent, you are saying its OK to go round murdering people because to arrest someone for doing so would infringe on their rights!

Have I understood you correctly???

reply to post by Hongkongphooey

Putting words in my mouth it seems, where did I advocate force to drive on the roads! So you believe there should be no rules or standards enforced on the roads because it infringes on your freedom however, driving is a skill that needs training and every country on the planet requires you to obtain a license to prove you can drive properly. In Thailand for example you can just buy a license for about $16.50 (Baht 500) go out and smash up yours and another car because you had no real training - This my maid did recently after I paid for her to have 20 lessons (which they skipped and told her to just pay for the test).

It actually seems you do not understand how the system works exactly. Or is it that you want to avoid the nasty side of what you advocate? If you are for a driving license then you are for FORCE! You are for Violence towards anyone that disagrees with you. I mean it is right there in the video, or are you saying dave wanted to go for a ride with the cops and get locked in a cell? I put no words in your mouth.

Who said you didn't need training? But let me ask you this, if you saw someone driving down the road erratically what would you do? Get out of the way perhaps? What I'm saying is an ADULT does not need to PROVE to anyone that they can drive! They as an adult are responsible for their actions! If they got on the roads without any training and caused an accident they would be responsible and pay the price for that! You don't need to condemn everyone for the actions of a few!

Besides you have all the rules and licenses and such now and guess what people still drive without any training and cause accidents etc, they have to deal with the consequences, there is no difference.

I will find you the articles referring to the roads with no markings (less regulation/control) and them turning out to be really safe! Why? Because people are not relying on traffic lights! They take care coming to a junction and LOOK. People take turns letting people go and it all runs rather smoothly. Would you have thought that possible? You have said that you rules are all needed.

I'm sorry whilst I am a believer in more freedom, it has to have some limits and rules - sensible rules. Whilst I think that the UK tax system is grossly unfair, I do not disagree with the road rules, which are very, very sensible, albeit insurance is very expensive (too epensive I agree).

You are not a believer in freedom at all you are for the use of force against me because my opinion differs from yours.

When I said school teaches us the basics, I meant that it teaches us to read, multiply and write and we have to wake up from this media infested world and wake up.

I never mentioned this part, I referred to the brainwashing/indoctrination comments.

I'm sorry but Dave is wrong to drive without a license, registration, MOT, insurance or any identification. Who is he to demand I.D. when he has none himself, he thinks he is above the law and sets a different precedent for himself above others, that is not freedom! Freedom needs some logic and basic rules otherwise what you have is anarchy!.

Have you seen dave drive? Just because you say it is wrong does not make it so, sorry. Can I ask you, would you drive in a car that is not mechanically sound? If there was no force would you get your car checked regularly?

Who is he to demand? He is the one being stopped, he didn't ask for them to come and harass him while he was peacefully going about his business! Had he harmed anyone? It was a pre-emptive arrest yeah? lol

He has broken no law, he has not harmed a sole or stolen off anyone. What he is doing is civil disobedience! He can drive! He has a nice car which is obviously not a wreck, he is a responsible man that has had enough of the control freak culture where the state dictates nearly every facet of your life! They have a finger in every pie and it's all for our safety? Yeah I'm sure mate. He doesn't think he is above the law at all, but I can tell you some people that do! The very people you advocate I follow and obey!

reply to post by Hongkongphooey

Freedom is not freedom if there is no respect for others, other than yourself, that is called selfishness, plain and simple! Unfortunately, like most countries the UK has laws and Dave broke several therefore he has to face the responsibility for it. By your argumnent, you are saying its OK to go round murdering people because to arrest someone for doing so would infringe on their rights!

Who mentioned no respect for others? How has dave shown a lack of respect? Is his car in bad repair? Is he a bad driver? Does he not get his car checked out? How do you know? You are just using a strawman argument. Then you call the strawman selfish, it means nothing.

"unfortunately, like most countries the UK has laws" I thought the laws were wonderful? Why unfortunately? Strange choice of words...
He broke some rules made by people that have zero respect for the law! Why on earth would you listen to lying murdering scumbags laws? This does NOT make him a danger! He has threatened to hurt nobody and has indeed hurt nobody and he has stolen off nobody and acted with a great deal of thought and stood by his principles! He has infringed on no-one else's rights.

Again you just kill it with that final sentence (no pun intended). What the hell does murder have to do with anything? Murder is on the top of the list of common sense rules that everyone lives by be there government or not! Do people break that rule? YES, plenty of people do and they will be responsible for there actions. It would be VERY hard to find a freeman that commits murder I can assure you!

Have I understood you correctly???

It seems you have not and it seems you have much to learn on the subject. In very simple terms I am an adult okay. I do not need to ask for permission to do something! That is what a license is! It is you asking the government for permission as though you were a child! You are not a child are you? If you are not responsible enough to know if you can drive or not then how on earth are you responsible enough to vote? How are you responsible enough to have children or choose a career or a partner? Should the state not take care of these things for you too?

Look I know that it is hard to see a future that is without force or coercion but it is possible! These people that are in "power" are corrupt to the nines! What do you think we do? Get nice people in power? Even if you could how long would that last? There are many issues at play here, you have a lot of reading and studying to do. It is not just because he wants to not pay tax or have a license etc. The issue is far and wide. The no license thing is just one tiny part of it all.

Now I will also note that I do not think freemen have everything right. But they are making a change for the better! The totally understand responsibility and respect for other people! More so than the average person I would argue. Those things are not an issue.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by DaveMurphy25

 

Hello dave and welcome to ATS. What made you come here? Did someone inform you of the thread or do you just lurk here as I used to?

Hiya, One of my friends told me about this thread, I regularly visit ATS but never been to the forum before

reply to post by DaveMurphy25

Hiya, One of my friends told me about this thread, I regularly visit ATS but never been to the forum before

Ahhhh I thought you must of had a nudge. Cool well it would be great to have your input around here as you're obviously got quite a bit of experience in these matters. You should defo author some threads documenting your experience. Would be really useful for some of the folks.

Btw the million dollar question, what was the result? Are you still on the road? Sorry I haven't had time to check the links just yet.

reply to post by FireballStorm


never mind.

reply to post by mkkkay


I've been mulling your idea over and it is actually genius! I would really love to see it put into action. There are a few difficulties I can see like who would control the account and agree the payouts? If you had to have someone do that full time then you would need to pay them. Which means an outgoing. But perhaps the interest from the million could take care of that?

Any way it would be really interesting to see it put into action by somebody. No doubt the practice would be highly illegal! lol

reply to post by Hefficide


They also regard people with a weeks worth of food to be domestic terrorists. What is your point?

This is not a loop hole, he is basically denouncing himself from being under her Majesty's law by being some thin called "freeman on the land" or just for short "Freeman" don't get this confused with Freemasons.

This is the legality of it, well from what I can remember:

You write a letter to the Gov stating that when you was born you where in now fit state to sign your Birth cert and that is why your parents do it for you, but when you reach maturity at 18 you can state that you are now of a adult age and that because you was in no fit state to have any input of weather you want to the cert to be signed or not you can write and say I don't want to be under her majesty's Gov

Great website about 1 guy (EX Police) experiences in becoming a Freeman

This is pretty much what Gypsy's do and how they can get away with a lot of thing most people cant. Yes some laws are exempt when you do this but it is also a very stupid thing to do because you loose a LOT of benefits. No JSA, No NHS and lot of governmental services will help you, also no NI number.

I don't think many countries support this way of life though, it is technically created for people who want to live a free life like hermits and extreme hippy's who want to go out into the wilderness and live off the land. But like a lot of law's it is abused.

I got a friend who wanted to become one, still think he is in the process.

reply to post by FireballStorm

I wish this was the case here in Norway. I live in a non central area when it comes to public transport, but yet i am too poor to even get a drivers license which costs over 3000euros alone. Then on top of that we have worlds highest road taxes, car taxes and most road toll stations in the world.

I am at that point where i am starting to think of doing the same.. just get a cheap wreck of a car and drive without any license, insurance or anything at all as i have no choice.

reply to post by definity

This is pretty much what Gypsy's do and how they can get away with a lot of thing most people cant. Yes some laws are exempt when you do this but it is also a very stupid thing to do because you loose a LOT of benefits. No JSA, No NHS and lot of governmental services will help you, also no NI number. I don't think many countries support this way of life though, it is technically created for people who want to live a free life like hermits and extreme hippy's who want to go out into the wilderness and live off the land. But like a lot of law's it is abused.

I liked your post up until this point. lol

You really think only hippy hermits want to live like this? LOL

I don't know many hippies that are also hermits actually. They are normally outdoors kinda people.

Any way the way of life is very appealing to me. Keep the NHS and all the other so called "benefits" and I'll live my life without hurting anyone or stealing from anyone. That is fair enough isn't it? I'll put nothing in and take nothing out. How about that?

reply to post by juleol


motorcycle?

Originally posted by Zngland
reply to post by juleol

 

motorcycle?

Motorcycle is sadly pretty expensive as well. I luckily was able to get a moped/50cc scooter since i was born before they made that expensive as well. But sadly since i live in a country with 9 months of winter i cannot use it most of the year.
In a couple of weeks I will probably have to store it away until at least april-may again..

reply to post by Hongkongphooey



You really are stupid, Dave clearly pointed out the laws of the country and you are disagreeing with those laws.

Who are you to disagree with the laws of the UK!?

Originally posted by Hongkongphooey
Dave is your perfect example of how a little knowledge is dangerous!

I'm afraid you are a perfect example of why assumed or no knowledge is even more dangerous.

Dave does not understand that the law he cites is from times before the motor vehicle was invented and has now been superceded by newer more appropriate laws. Whilst, I do think freedoms have been limited unneccessarily in many instances, this is not one of them!

First of all there is no Law, there is only statute and that statute applies only to those who are engaged in commercial activities, and we have been fooled into confessing to engaging in commerce on the road for which you need licences, taxes and appropriate paperwork... As proof of what I say, look up the legal definition of the word "Traffic", it means Commerce, buying and selling i.e. Drug Trafficking; so unless you are a taxi driver or a bus driver, do you really think that the Road Commerce Act applies to you?

There are very good reasons for making people have a license to drive, pay road tax, MOT and insurance.

Yes there are... Money, a great deal of money.

A driving license is required to show that you have acquired proficiency in controlling what in untrained hands is a dangerous weapon that can injure, maim and kill. As long as you take the test and pass you are freely allowed to drive!

We are meant to think that a driving license is a certificate of competancy but it's not, it's a contract, one that you sign to waive your natural right to travel for the benefit privilege of being a driver... When was the last time that YOU had to sign a certificate?
Normally, someone else certifies that you are qualified to do something, so why would you have to sign it?

Does your ability to control a car expire every 10 years when your license expires? If so, then why don't you have to take your test again every time it expires?

A car is not an inherrently dangerous device... Listen to this at 7:58 www.youtube.com... (in fact watch the whole thing)

Road tax is required to pay for the construction and usage of 'public' roads. If he was using them as he was, then he is entitled to contribute to the building, upkeep and maintainence of the 'public' roads.

Road Tax was abolished in 1937 (Please do some research before making apparently authoritative statements)
What you are paying is Vehicle Excise Duty, a general tax that goes nowhere near the roads, the tax on petrol is what pays for road maintenance.

MOT's are required to prove the car is roadworthy and not a danger to himself or anyone else, this is understandable and not a big expense as long as the car is roadworthy. If the car is not then you have the option to correct the situation.

MOT's are only valid for the day of the test. According to the DVLA response to a FOI request in February 2010: "The annual MOT test is a minimum check of the main safety related components on the vehicle, but each motorist is responsible for keeping their vehicle in a roadworthy condition throughout the year through regular maintenance and servicing according to their use of the vehicle."

Insurance, is required for the safety of yourself and others, damage caused to other vehicles or your own and the same said people's health. I wonder what his opinion would be if his car was damaged by another car and he was injured, with the other driver stating 'sorry I have no insurance, driving license, MOT or Road Tax?'

If it was undeniably due to the other chap's negligence and I had suffered injury or loss, then I would ask him how he intended to make restitution and if he acts dishonourably then I would take him to court... otherwise... ACCIDENTS HAPPEN!

As to whether Insurance being a big scam, I have had traffic accidents, even had a car 'witten off', I have been hospitalised for emergency operations and I have come to regard insurance as a necessity. If you want to have the freedom to drive, you have to have responsibility!

You miss the point of the entire exercise, I was travelling with full responsibility for my actions and in the 25 years that I have been behind the wheel of a car I have had one accident which may have cost perhaps £1000 offset that against 25 years of insurance premiums, its a business scam and you are its forced customers

In my opinion, Dave should have the book thrown at him for the full extent of the law.

Your opinion is an ill educated one and is, as such, irrelevant

I was in absolute disgust at his demands to see Police Government Issued I.D. when he had none to show himself,

As a Public Servant he is required to have and produce on demand his identity, as a man in my private capacity I am not.

Brilliant videos and posts dave.

Things like these help people see how none of us are truly free and how we are slaves to the system, we have no true freedoms. Freedom can be written into law and those that govern us choose to ignore those laws.

Obviously there are those that rely on the system, public servants, disabled, political figures, they get paid by the state so they do not want anything to change.

I have read a lot on this Freeman on the land thing and think it's good if you live in a place with wide open spaces remote areas where you don't endanger the lives of others without insurance to protect Them. It's not practical for city living.

I use an electric bike to travel. It requires no insurance or drivers license. It goes 30 miles per hour and I can drive it on the side of public streets. ( in my state of Louisiana) That's how I do it.

Originally posted by Hefficide

For any Americans reading this who might get excited, be forewarned... The FBI considers "Sovereign citizens" to be domestic terrorists.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

~Heff

they also consider some one with water proof ammo as terrorists,
and anyone who believes in the constitution,
or anyone who doesn't believe that the two party system is working,

i could go on but i understand your point,
dont try this at home folks,

xploder

At the start of the first video, I was proud of the guy for standing his ground, and I was being prepared to be amazed if it actually worked.....by the end of the third video I thought he was just an arsehole.

My biggest respect goes to the police officer who dealt with him first, he kept calm, even had a laugh and IMO was being fairly decent with the guy.

As others have pointed out on here, despite it being stupidly expensive, driving without insurance is idiotic at best.

the more laws criminalizing citizens for non-crimes = the less individual freedom = the more prejudice within society = the less responsible individuals, and this vicious circle goes on, the system has taken over with our consent, who dares ironically speaking of tyranny, but hey there is still the possibility we might get common sense back on the 21-12-2012