Evil is simply this

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by benrl

 

Yes i was thinking along that line. So technically we are all evil under that outlook. Then it comes down to debating categorys and levels of evil.

There's a paradox of leadership involving the neccessity to influence, and it's not always evil, but to "administer" would require a great deal of "balancing" and bracketing of self-interest for the sake of mutual growth and well being, Jesus being a perfect example, who although accepting and recieving people as they were had no interest in leaving them in that state.

Do not agree. Good is symbiotic or neutral behavior between the people involved and affected by the behaviour. Evil is egoparasitic non symbiotic behaviour between people where one or a group of people get something or nothing at the cost of one or a group of people.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Thats definitely another head of the snake. The snake has multiple evil heads.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


evil to me is anybody who says or commits an action that took nobody else into account before doing it, it was done for selfish purposes or because the person just wanted to and didn't care who was affected or how they would feel.

Evil is simply a word assigned to things or actions a person might disagree with.

Since it's definition is only based on an individual's perception.
In my opinion, it is not a valid concept.

There is no good, there is no evil.
Everything is relative to your perspective.

reply to post by watchitburn


But we could say the same about being nice and being horrible, it definitely exists it is just everybody has the ability to be both rather than all one or the other, and certain things people would not label themselves as being nice or being horrible but others would.

Good and evil are just words we use to understand what we think of a certain actions, if we didn't use the term good and evil then we would just be using different words that basically mean or explain the same thing, because it does exists, it explains peoples behavior towards other people.

reply to post by lifeform11


No.

It is a perception based on individual perspective. And it varies from person to person.
It is too fluid to be a fact.

Nothing is good and nothing is evil. Everything just is.
How any one person prefers it, is just their opinion and therefore irrelevant.

reply to post by watchitburn


so that makes horrible and nice irrelevant then, hot and cold, comfortable and uncomfortable because they all vary from person to person, what is cold to me might not be cold to you, what is nice to you might be horrible to me. they are all just in your perception.

good and evil are just word to describe peoples behavior, the behavior associated with the words is real.
what words would you use instead to describe those types of behavior?

reply to post by lifeform11


You hit the nail on the head perfectly with your first paragraph.

Good and bad are relative concepts, or delusions if you want.

I don't think of things in a good or bad light.
I judge things in a cost/benefit analysis.

Ex: Does the cost out weigh the benefit? Yes, then I won't do it.
Is this illegal?, Can I get away with it? Who will find out? Is it socially acceptable? If not can I hide it?

There is no black and white, just many shades of grey.

What we want is irrelevant. Therefore the only logical thing to be concerned about is what I want. Your constructs of good and evil are just a coping mechanism to help your mind avoid the fact that your existence is meaningless.

reply to post by watchitburn


no it is to help me communicate with people not cope with a meaningless world, all words are meaningless but they would not exist if they were not describing something we can observe as being real to us in this reality.

good and evil could easily be labelled unacceptable behavior and acceptable behavior, everybody has boundaries where they think somebody has overstepped the mark, and we just use words to explain how we feel about it, so although the words might not be real the behavior of human beings is something that can be observed and words were created to explain them, good and evil just being two of them.

they simply describe something that can be observed in a persons behavior and they are just as valid word to use than right or wrong.

reply to post by lifeform11


But it still comes down to each persons different point of view. And that can vary greatly from one person to the next. That's what makes "good and evil" an untenable position.

But I understand your position, and why someone would choose it as their own.
Though I cannot accept it as mine. My perspective will not allow it.

I applaud the defense of your principals, and consider this little debate a draw.

Good day.

reply to post by watchitburn


I agree about perception.

Evil is just a word to explain the most extreme cases of what each person considers bad/wrong/unacceptable/horrible etc etc. It is just a gauge of how bad something is to that person or religion, of course that will vary but it is simply for communication purposes so we understand how we feel about something, on the other hand there is a certain type of human behavior that is real and some/most people associate with a word.

I do also understand where your coming from also but there are many words that come down to the same thing.
I appreciate the debate and I certainly am not saying your wrong, sometimes I need to test if what I believe is wrong or needs adjusting.

reply to post by benrl

You understand the circular self defeating nature of this argument right? anyone that disagrees with you is trying to influence your mental state so they are evil and you don't have to listen?

Oh, I understand your argument, but not your logic. You are saying that if someone disagrees with you, on a point, I assume, then that person is evil?
You say, "Ford makes the best car, better than any other car." I say, "no, Chevys are much better cars." I disagreed with you. Am I now evil?
Do you see the flaw in your logic?

reply to post by autowrench


It makes you both evil.

Dodge obviously makes the superior vehicle.

reply to post by lifeform11


Ahh.

I think this is where my perspective is preferential.

sometimes I need to test if what I believe is wrong or needs adjusting.

I never never need to test my positions, because I always choose the action that works in my best interests. Sure, some things may not work always out as planned. But the decision was made based on the best available information.

Right and wrong are unnecessary. It is the "cost/benefit" solution that will always yield the preferential outcome.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
A recurring theme i read is peoples views of what is Evil. It arises commonly across metaphysical and religous threads. So what is evil?

How many times do we hear people say things or infer things through speach or writing that we see may have an adverse effect on a persons emotional state. This often or not occurs repeatly from the source to the target so its very obvious its been done for the explicit purpose to exert control of a persons emotional state.

It occurs between strangers who meeting in everyday interactions. It also occurs between people who are meant to mean something to eachother, via direct or sublimal way. Well thats it really, Evil is simply this.

edit on 5-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

YOu know I've found myself getting into internet arguments in real-time chats a lot. It starts out simple. I say something about something that's on my mind. And maybe I write a few more sentences than I should (it's hard to stop the flow of ideas once they get going, does that mean I'm evil?). Then somebody says something like "Shut up." or "Don't have you something better to do?" or something like that. I admit that I write too much and once an idea gets in my head I have hte urge to spill the beans on it and tell the world, but when somebody reacts to me that way it always gets me mad. First of all, I don't ever tell someone else to "Shut up." I do get mad if somebody states an opinion that's opposite of mine AND takes a jibe at me. That's when it becomes insulting. But if they state it without insulting myself, I can work with them. But in internent real-time chats it rarely goes that way. If i even start to express a complex idea or somnething that requires more than one line of text, it's very very hard to not have people agnry and ignoring each other and taking it personally.

And I've never ignored anybody except for the spammers that do blatant spamming. By this I mean posting repeated xxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx over and over and over and over. I don't ignore people if they state ideas even if I disagree with them or they go on long rants. In fact, I like to read rants. And yet I probably have more people ignoring me than anybody else in the world. They operate by different rules than I do. Or maybe I just don't follow the rules.

I guess if you want to have real-time chats you have to intentionally keep them simple. I suppose what I should learn from this is to voice more complex ideas in more appropriate places. For example, if I want to debate black holes, i can go to a astrophysics chat room. If I want to debate design, I go to the designers room. But if I'm in a universal chat, it's very hard to shut off my mind.

My mind is 24/7. I often want to talk about ideas and theories because they're running in my head. It's hard to shut off. But more than that, it's hard to shut off once I get started...

Now I know I'm not a great thinker. I'm not a genius. I know that. But when I get an idea in my head that I think is worth remembering, it's hard to shut up. Very hard. It's hard to put a lock on it. Eventually it reaches a threshold and the idea comes exploding out and I just am miserable at damage control. I get so excited. Many of my ideas do that. They make me so excited that I will talk and talk or write and write or think and think. And .... BOOM. Usually it goes BOOM in the wrong place.

Evil is whatever a person defines it to be. Some people think bacon is "evil", some people think cheese burgers are "evil"... I am not making things up, these are real examples I'm giving you here...

Evil is person, it will be defined by an individual as whatever makes them very negative emotions. Some of these things which cause very negative emotions (harm, torture, stealing, unfairness) most people will "agree" to that being "evil" but really it is defined in whatever way a person (or the people - if agreed) wants it to be.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Well then, it is a good thing you are on ATS. The T&C are in place to prevent that exact situation from occurring.
You can have conversations here that span months.

And if you choose your adversary correctly, you will have no worries about one liner responses.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

If it gives you any respite from the constant "turning of the seas," I'll tell you that I made no harsh judgments about what you stated in the OP. See, I just came from a chat where I was basically booted out for talking too much. No, I wasn't cursing or attacking anybody. I was just talking about things too much and not shutting up. I get a bit too passionate sometimes and others have to force me to quiet down. So when I read the OP, I kind of related it to my experiences over the past week or two in real-time chats. I know how people can throw insults and attacks back and forth and how engaging discussions can go downhill quickly if one or more people loses track of things or just doesn't want to hear it. Emotions can flare easily and I think anybody is vulnerable to that.

How do we find peace if we can't get along? If our opinions don't mesh? Is the world really big enough, or do we inevitably cross the boundary lines between ourselves and others and cause conflict? Are some people just more mellow and tolerant than others? What makes people opinionated? What makes us stand up for an idea we have and not fall back on it or lose our conviction? How do we focus on agreements and not disagreements?

Is conviction evil? Are strong opinions evil?

Sometimes I think I know what I want or what I'd like to see or have. It feels so sure or so right. And yet at the same time I feel like I cannot express it without causing commotion with others. It's like there're places I go where I just have to shut up and keep my disagreements to myself. Naturally, I shouldn't walk into a bar and expect to not find beer, right? Some things you just don't do...

reply to post by jonnywhite

How do we find peace if we can't get along? If our opinions don't mesh?

I cant see how we can find peace between eachother until we make peace within ourselves first.

Is the world really big enough, or do we inevitably cross the boundary lines between ourselves and others and cause conflict?

The world is full of conflicts it appears almost inevitable based on seeing what actually happens in the world.

Are some people just more mellow and tolerant than others

Yes. Dont assume im one of them.

It's like there're places I go where I just have to shut up and keep my disagreements to myself. Naturally, I shouldn't walk into a bar and expect to not find beer, right?

If your a person who is prone to getting into disagreements then its probably irresponsible to frequent bars if you know you will be likley arguing with other patrons and some of which are drunk and argumentative also. This assumes of course you dont like fist fights which most people wouldnt want to get into.

What makes people opinionated? How do we focus on agreements and not disagreements? Is conviction evil? Are strong opinions evil?

can someone answer these questions please?