Tecumseh

reply to post by frazzle

So now its on again with the westward push and the technology to "depopulate softly" because there are just too many restless natives all around the world who are figuring out what arrogant bastards they and their UN buddies really are and there are too many who are on the verge of going postal on them. So bring out the smallpox blankets hidden in vaccine needles to create chaos and maintain control.

I likewise feel that it has always been a race for Them to stay ahead of the mob that was awaking to their schemes.

Bird Flue, Swine Flue, vaccines, GMO, tab water is bad you need fluoride, Food Science magic etc. I never thought too deeply into the Food Science Dept. on my campus but then it dawn on me "What, scientific food? That is legalized poison. " The games is do sensible stuff for the crowd to see and in the back the "smallpox blanket" projects.

reply to post by tintin2012

I likewise feel that it has always been a race for Them to stay ahead of the mob that was awaking to their schemes.

Bird Flue, Swine Flue, vaccines, GMO, tab water is bad you need fluoride, Food Science magic etc. I never thought too deeply into the Food Science Dept. on my campus but then it dawn on me "What, scientific food? That is legalized poison. " The games is do sensible stuff for the crowd to see and in the back the "smallpox blanket" projects.

Absolutely true. Government has always surrounded the villages with good hearted promises to make the villagers lives stress free and easy if they will only submit to the government's corporatist rules. But when the villagers do submit and are made dependent upon the rulers for their very existence they are attacked from every angle with every weapon at the government's disposal. If governments and corporations weren't so consistent in exceeding their mutual goals it might be harder to call them evil.

Tecumseh saw the bad medicine coming and tried to stop it.

The Sioux saw it coming and tried to stop it.

We see bad medicine coming, too, in all the forms you named and a lot we couldn't name, but what are we doing to stop it besides waiting for them to show their intentions, yet again?

reply to post by frazzle

We see bad medicine coming, too, in all the forms you named and a lot we couldn't name, but what are we doing to stop it besides waiting for them to show their intentions, yet again?

Frazzlel I often have conversations on this subject with friends but believe me I only see blank stares (deer). The effort will continue to be a hopeless endeavor UNTIL the hurt reaches a critical mass. Critical mass is seen right now in Greece where the people SIMPLY HAVE NO CHOICE. It as plain as vanilla for them now that NO "comfort zone" has been left for them. Sort of like a cornered rat. That is why images from there are "No News".

Sad but that is what I think will be needed. Problem with this is that it gives time to the Enemy.

Originally posted by tintin2012
reply to post by frazzle

 

Frazzlel I often have conversations on this subject with friends but believe me I only see blank stares (deer). The effort will continue to be a hopeless endeavor UNTIL the hurt reaches a critical mass. Critical mass is seen right now in Greece where the people SIMPLY HAVE NO CHOICE. It as plain as vanilla for them now that NO "comfort zone" has been left for them. Sort of like a cornered rat. That is why images from there are "No News".

Sad but that is what I think will be needed. Problem with this is that it gives time to the Enemy.

edit on 12-10-2012 by tintin2012 because: grammer

edit on 12-10-2012 by tintin2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-10-2012 by tintin2012 because: thinking too fast

I can certainly relate to your experience with blank stares!!! Worse is when people with that deer in the headlights look start avoiding you because you are obviously an unamerican heretic with no appreciation for those who died to make you free. Without that belief to fall back on, they would have no identity at all. They don' t ever stop to realize that the ones who died weren't the ones who wrote the rules AFTER the fact.

I've lost faith that there will ever be critical mass. Its too easy to blame the victims.

reply to post by frazzle

I've lost faith that there will ever be critical mass. Its too easy to blame the victims.

frazzle don't lose faith, the Universe is full of surprises.

From my experience, when it all looked hopeless something sometimes happened to turn things around. Tho I get blank stares, I continue to remind my friends and family of THE REALITY that is us sitting on stolen land. I don't harp on it but when the occasion allows to bring up the subject I do it. Sort of like a dripping pipe In the mix of topics is of course so called Democracy, this one ticks them off

The Universe is not about KEEPING which was the core of Indian Way of Life. Those that do not understand this lesson should spend time at a cemetery or watch a dead carcass decay. The lesson is : You Will Leave This World With Nothing of This World. So Child Calm Down and Realize How Little is Necessary to Live Comfortable. (one beer and off I go philosophical )

reply to post by tintin2012

frazzle don't lose faith, the Universe is full of surprises.

From my experience, when it all looked hopeless something sometimes happened to turn things around. Tho I get blank stares, I continue to remind my friends and family of THE REALITY that is us sitting on stolen land. I don't harp on it but when the occasion allows to bring up the subject I do it. Sort of like a dripping pipe In the mix of topics is of course so called Democracy, this one ticks them off

The Universe is not about KEEPING which was the core of Indian Way of Life. Those that do not understand this lesson should spend time at a cemetery or watch a dead carcass decay. The lesson is : You Will Leave This World With Nothing of This World. So Child Calm Down and Realize How Little is Necessary to Live Comfortable. (one beer and off I go philosophical )

Not about keeping. Yeah, and that goes right along with the christian teaching that its better to give than to receive, eh. I don't know about all of the tribes, but among some of them, marriage ceremonies are that the families of the new couple give gifts to the guests who come to share in their celebration.

Now juxtapose that with all those good christian kids that kick bite and claw over every last little thing their parents accumulated during their lives but couldn't take with them when they moved to the cemetery.

I probably won't be around long enough for it to matter anyway so it doesn't bother me to know that things like that probably won't be turning around in my lifetime, although never say never.

I like that dripping pipe analogy, not that it ever occurred to me to give it a try, LOL. But anybody who knows these things and is still able to exercise some patience has my respect and probably more of a positive effect on the minds of people around them. Good job!

reply to post by frazzle


frazzle, I'd like to thank you too for continuing to bring interesting and well thought out posts to this thread. It has morphed into a very interesting dialogue. I appreciate the time you have spent educating me.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Thank you CJ, but the gratitude is all on my end because there are so few topics posted that I have enough passion for to dive into so when one does come along, like yours, its easy to go overboard and I worry about wearing out my welcome and going too far afield with my comments, so I'm more inclined to thank you for putting up with me.

But in retrospect, its pretty strange that as we get older its so easy to look back and admit how many times we zigged when we should have zagged, but at the same time its so difficult to admit the same thing when we’re talking about the nation and the people who founded it. WE aren’t to blame for what happened so long before we were born, and certainly not in the sense that we are to blame for our own personal bad decisions. But acknowledging what happened back then and why it happened is the only way to start the healing.

Whether people acknowledge those long ago terrible decisions or not, somewhere down the road there is a price waiting to be paid for them and too many people won’t even understand why they’re paying it. But I guess, more than anything else, its all the innocent lives that have been taken and all the people who've given their lives defending those lies is what really gets to me. It just never ends.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Thank you CJ, but the gratitude is all on my end because there are so few topics posted that I have enough passion for to dive into so when one does come along, like yours, its easy to go overboard and I worry about wearing out my welcome and going too far afield with my comments, so I'm more inclined to thank you for putting up with me.

But in retrospect, its pretty strange that as we get older its so easy to look back and admit how many times we zigged when we should have zagged, but at the same time its so difficult to admit the same thing when we’re talking about the nation and the people who founded it. WE aren’t to blame for what happened so long before we were born, and certainly not in the sense that we are to blame for our own personal bad decisions. But acknowledging what happened back then and why it happened is the only way to start the healing.

Whether people acknowledge those long ago terrible decisions or not, somewhere down the road there is a price waiting to be paid for them and too many people won’t even understand why they’re paying it. But I guess, more than anything else, its all the innocent lives that have been taken and all the people who've given their lives defending those lies is what really gets to me. It just never ends.

I agree. Those who stood before tyranny and died for it are those who we should be celebrating. Not that many whites didn't. When it comes to the shame of past crimes, all need to be held accountable the same. The simple fact that where charity and good will could have existed in the times of American expansion was replaced instead with avarice and theft is an indication of the corruption of the white man and his system. I fear one day no one will know anything other than Tonto and his stylings.

CJ

reply to post by frazzle

Not about keeping. Yeah, and that goes right along with the christian teaching that its better to give than to receive, eh. I don't know about all of the tribes, but among some of them, marriage ceremonies are that the families of the new couple give gifts to the guests who come to share in their celebration.

You mention Christianity. Well many are jaded into thinking that it is in some special class forgetting that its structure is exactly like Western Governments, top down pyramid. Its double speak has done innumerable damage. The hand in hand destruction of the Americas by this Force along with the monarchies must not be overlooked and understood in its true nature. How many are able to look square at this beast and see this? FEW

Native "religion", better Spirituality, didn't have as dominating a power. Though I am not stretching it here a lot. Native people (to the best of my knowledge) had a more distributed governance that (again to the best of my knowledge) was based on age and experience. I deduce "experience" to mean do or die situations and peoples approval of how they conducted themselves. I am probable idealizing, but so be it. This sort of flattened arrangement is harder to penetrate by an outsider and corrupt, though certainly not impossible to do at moments of weakness.

It was this governance style that kept the Ecological System healthy. Mayan's went down the road of the European Style (top down pyramid) of governance and disappeared by over clearing trees to make "paint" for the temples. Mother Earth responded by bringing droughts and quick end to them.
End

The main reason ,I reason, why the Indians lost was lack of information about their intruder. They treated these people like their own. They had a stable political-ecosytem which they understood and knew, but one that was not prepared to deal with such strangers about whom they knew so little.

Maybe, I know I am hanging on a twig, if they knew more about European Rulers they would have seen through the charade but to do this they would have had little time due to differences in technology accessible to the Europeans. That is why you hear at times that Power is Information, or something like that

At the moment Europe is (has been for a long time) under attack by a destructive force. This force cares little for cultures , nationalities or traditions. This force is interested in domination of all resources, period. These people may speak english, french or german and appear to be all different. But their secret though, IMHO, is their psychological character.

These are people who look at other people who are outside of their "tribe" as beasts of burden. A Mutual Compact of Cooperation will never be honored by them as they rule behind curtains. The Western Governance Model for these people is ideal environment to prosper. It makes it simple to corrupt body politics and for us to control them very difficult if not impossible (they just wait you out).

Theirs is a distributed model. Through the centuries they have learned how to play this game. As an example, corrupt country A,B and C. Now they try to get their people in power or close to power. This then gives them an insurance policy that if country A get wise then country C is used to eliminate their endangered tribe in A. How? Lenin's, Trocky's, Hamilton's, Mussolini's, Napoleonean's,Bush etc., these are their tools of Power.

Here Indians I feel could teach us a lot. Fragmentation is what is needed not Globalization. Globalization is too simple to manipulate. The hope I see is that the farther they reach the more ENERGY they need and they do not have. Mother Nature as with the Mayan's remind them of this.. Mother Nature with whom Indians knew how to live.

reply to post by ColoradoJens

I agree. Those who stood before tyranny and died for it are those who we should be celebrating. Not that many whites didn't. When it comes to the shame of past crimes, all need to be held accountable the same. The simple fact that where charity and good will could have existed in the times of American expansion was replaced instead with avarice and theft is an indication of the corruption of the white man and his system. I fear one day no one will know anything other than Tonto and his stylings.

CJ

I hope you didn’t think old frazzle was hauling out the big old broad brush and painting the whole crew as bad guys. Of course its long past time for holding anyone from the early days accountable, but its true that many of them did stand against tyranny and they clearly saw it coming with the new constitution. Out of the 55 delegates at the constitutional convention, only 39 of them signed it and the number of states required to pass it had to be reduced from 11 to 9 or it would have failed. But I consider the 16 delegates who didn’t sign to be only semi good guys because although they had a slew of reasons for not agreeing to the terms, it mainly boiled down to their distrust of the implied powers and how they would be used to herd White Americans into corrals. State’s Rights was their issue, not that they had any particular concern for the fate of the Indian or black people, at least not that they wrote about.

Actually I think bigotry against non whites in the early days was far worse than it is today, particularly among the upper crust of society which unfortunately drives all of society, so charity and good will towards minorities within that group was close to nil and they had stratified the lower classes in such a way that they were always fighting among themselves for the crumbs, regardless of color. There are some horror stories about life in those times for poor white people, which is why it was so easy to incite them to barrel westward for a ‘better’ life.

But backing up even further, the influx of French into lower Canada in the 1600s probably gives the best example of whites and indigenous people living and working well together despite the machinations of the Church and royal decrees from the Fricking French king. If we could have followed the example set by those immigrants we’d all be far better off today but that also ended with the revolution when the Americans chased the British loyalists into Canada and all bets were off for the French, the Indians and mixtures of both. Say what you will about the French, those people do know how to get along in just about any culture, at least until a third party crashes the scene.

There’s probably more reason for hope now than ever before because the interest in all things native has undergone a tremendous resurgence in recent years, partly due to the internet and more college courses being offered on the subject. Sadly, I think its also partly because they don’t represent any kind of a threat to the dominant culture anymore, so there are still way too many people living in terrible conditions and who have basically lost their traditions and cultures and languages and they have no means of sustaining themselves. Happily, many are working hard on restoring the old knowledge, but those who stole it in the first place won’t ever be punished, and neither will those who continue the ridiculous policies of the federal government's skanky handmaiden, the BIA (the bossing indians around agency).

reply to post by tintin2012

.... I am probable idealizing
... I know I am hanging on a twig

Quit that.

What an awesome post!!! There's just nothing to say except that you swung that hammer with skill and precision.

reply to post by frazzle

Quit that.

Will do friend

Say what you will about the French, those people do know how to get along in just about any culture, at least until a third party crashes the scene.

That is my opinion also from my personal experience with expat communities. True to their form the worst were Brits and Aussies (on average), unbelievable racist and condescending to the locals.

reply to post by tintin2012

That is my opinion also from my personal experience with expat communities. True to their form the worst were Brits and Aussies (on average), unbelievable racist and condescending to the locals.

Not ever having had much exposure to Brits or Aussies, I hadn't thought of it that way, but it would explain a great deal.

reply to post by frazzle


I would recommend a BBC TV series "House of Cards" for you to watch

House of Cards draws heavily from Shakespeare's Macbeth and Richard III,[3] both of which examine issues of power, ambition and corruption. Richardson said he based his performance of the scheming Francis Urquhart on the way Shakespeare portrayed Richard III.[3] Urquhart frequently talks through the camera to the audience, breaking the fourth wall like a Shakespearian soliloquy.[4]

reply to post by tintin2012


Well thanks for the suggestion but not owning a tv makes that hard to do, even on netflix. From what I could gather about the series on various websites it doesn't look like one I could watch without smashing something anyway. jk Well okay, its available on hulu, as well, so maybe I'll give it a whirl and try not to throw any heavy objects at my computer.

To be honest, I kept track of the meltdown and the reasons behind it as it was happening so now I'm more interested in hearing about ways to STOP the corruption than being entertained by it (no offense intended).

reply to post by frazzle

frazzel I suggested it more with the younger crowed on ATS in mind, as I suspected that what You would see in it would not be new information for you. For me it squares nicely with my experience of having been a moth flying close to the "Sun".

Well I am on my 2nd beer and am thinking of a new thread regarding the American Indian History. After my guest leave I will consult with you what we my offer the crowd. Don't forget the dripping pipe

reply to post by tintin2012


I'm looking forward to hearing what you've got in mind for a new thread. Its unfortunate that this one hasn't drawn more attention.

ETA: by the way, I watched the trailer of the show on hulu and can't say it fired me up to see the rest of it. Sorry.

reply to post by frazzle

ETA: by the way, I watched the trailer of the show on hulu and can't say it fired me up to see the rest of it. Sorry.

No problem frazzel, better choice might be a beer, not in a condescending way. It is a dry Brit comedy in a way to which I am used to.

Have you seen the TV series "The Prisoner" ? Rather old but so am I. Now that one in my opinion is for thinking people. I'm not familiar with HULU but it might have it. Check it out

Originally posted by tintin2012
reply to post by frazzle

 

ETA: by the way, I watched the trailer of the show on hulu and can't say it fired me up to see the rest of it. Sorry.

No problem frazzel, better choice might be a beer, not in a condescending way. It is a dry Brit comedy in a way to which I am used to.

Have you seen the TV series "The Prisoner" ? Rather old but so am I. Now that one in my opinion is for thinking people. I'm not familiar with HULU but it might have it. Check it out

How on earth could suggesting a beer be condescending? I'm seriously contemplating making a run down to the store for a six pack. So if I start slurring my words its all your fault.

Never saw the Prisoner, either, I just prefer books whether fact or fiction. My family thinks I'm from another planet as they're all devout movie goers. Well, they have other reasons for thinking that, too, just ask 'em.