Iranian economy on verge of collapse

never mind!

I don't believe in protectionism, but in many ways it can benefit the country

These sanctions can also shield Iran from a global economic collapse

Iran can economically be fine, it just needs good management

Repressed and starving people always seek regime change. Lets hope the world helps the people of Iran obtain freedom this time. They have tried a few times and nobody came to their aid. Iran should just declare peace and embrace the world as it is.

reply to post by all2human

Let me ask an open question,are economic sanctions an act of war?

Sanctions and embargoes are considered to be mild penalties between countries. Iran has been under sanctions for a long time. These recent sanctions are just the more severe of that group.

Sanctions are economical penalties. And just that. Even if their consequences are too harsh to handle.

Embargoes are similar.

If Iran Closed the Strait of Hormuz would that be an act of war?

Yes. Because while sanctions are aimed to be penalties that can be lifted at any moment, the closure of the Strait is a blockade.

Blockades are officially considered to be acts of war.

reply to post by LostPassword

People who support sanctions on Iran are typical westerners who never traveled the world.

Iranian nuclear program is national PRIDE, stopping the nuclear program would be seen as
yielding to the foreign power. Travel to Iran and get to learn their way of thinking.

No. Iranian culture, people and History are their national pride. A nuclear program is just an economical/warfare asset. I can't possibly comprehend why so many people in ATS consider the nuclear program so vital that it's worth the starvation and misery of the iranian people.

I don't see them fighting this hard over solar, wind and other types of green energy.

The Iranian "way of thinking" is actually very pro-West. They are friendly and admire our culture. It's the battle between governments and regimes that gets the best of the whole situation, but several times it was shown that iranians are actually the best hope for stability and growth in that region, if they would lose the whole religious regime crap...

In fact if no one made a big deal of their nuclear program, they would be more likely to
sacrifice it.

So instead they choose to sacrifice their own people to get power that would help their people... Doesn't that seem a bit odd to people? That the mighty and rightful regime of Iran is doing this for it's people and their future, yet they throw all their economy to the wolfs just to continue to pursue nuclear power?

In the end, they will have nuclear power and they won't have a population that needs it...

Shocking new developent: a twenty percent currency plunge for Iran in one day!

Iranian clerics' attempts to curb speculation in the Rial and stabilize the currency appear to have backfired as the un-official (real) Rial rate traded as low as 34,250 Rial to the USD this morning - a massive 20% plunge.

Source: Zero hedge

Economic sanction is NOT war upon a nation.

Every human do have consumer right, to buy from whichever seller whom they wish, more so if they are peaceful and have no ulterior motives.

BUT to declare that economic sanction is war, DEMAND that it be stopped, is ABSOLUTE REPRESSION by the seller. And NO free human will stand for it.

The world has no intention to hurt our fellow brothers and sisters in Iran, but is only concerned with the persian apostate infidel leader's belligerance and insistance on continuing with its nuclear enrichment programmes. He fools no one, for their enrichment capabilities are now far beyond for 'mere peaceful use' as he claimed. He speaks with fork tongue anyway, expected of an apostate.

The free world is deeply concerned with nuke energy, espacially after Fukishima, and worst with the unchecked and internationally unregulated nuclear stations created by the iranian authorities, let alone evidences of nuclear weapon potential building.

The rest of us free world humans can only look in shock at what this apostate is willing to put his own trusting but naive citizens through - high inflation, starvation, etc, so that he can realize his demonic dream of building nuke weapons to control mankind, as well as his interferences and slaughter of thousands of innocents in recent years worldwide to manipulate events through his funding of terrorist to usher in the mythical Mahdi.

May our fellow brothers and sisters in Iran realizes it too, how they are absolutely INSIGNICANT to the mad scheme of their apostate leader.....

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy

No. Iranian culture, people and History are their national pride. A nuclear program is just an economical/warfare asset.

Which begs the question: if economic concerns are the basis for the nuclear program, why are they allowing their economy to flounder for the sake of their economy?

Clearly, what motivates Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khamenei is RELIGION.

People don't seem to understand what animates the theology of the Iranian Islamic revolution. It's interesting to note that Shia theology and jurisprudence strictly forbids the type of government that Iran currently has, and Ayotollah Khoi, a contemporary of Khomeini, opposed the revolution to his dying day.

The theological underpinning of the revolution is bundled up with the Shia belief that the 12th Imam will return to establish universal peace. Therefore, as Ayatollah Khomeini believed, and as the current regime in Iran believed, the Iranian revolution was a precursor to the coming of the 12th imam: only on such a basis could Khomeini justify the pursuit of political power which Shia Islam generally curtails.

This and this alone is the reason why someone can be certain that Iran's nuclear program is for apocalyptic reasons - not for developing their economy, which is why they're literally sacrificing their economy to this gold calf of nuclear power - but for paving the way for the coming of their 12th and final Imam.

Iranian leaders have two options to avoid catastrophe:

a) Shut down the nuke weapons program, open the reactors for inspection.

b) If not regime change, then go for regime modifications.

Give people small basic freedoms and remove the harsh punishments for violation. However these small basic freedoms need to be focused on more openness down the road as per the will of the people. Things like death penalty for having extra marriage affair should be reduced to like 6 months of prison. Women need not wear top to bottom veils and can go by with regular dressing which is not too tight or revealing. Such basic measures will earn much more goodwill from people. Basic point is folks want to live in today's world and feel free within the limits of human ethics. If a government stops them from basic freedoms then country becomes a big prison and stagnates. Ex: USSR under communism.

reply to post by victor7


I get your reasons for saying that, but it's just not gonna happen. The leaders in Iran are committed to a course that they will not put an end to; the only recourse we really have is to preempt their apocalyptic visions through regime change. It will not happen from within, as Iran is a totalitarian government with a stranglehold on the populations feeling and thinking.

If you look at this situation without any knowledge of Iran or the Iranian revolution, you are likely to think the US and Israel are involved in an imperialistic venture. However, if you've bothered to educate yourself in the regions politics - and understand the place theology in their elites thinking, than you come away with an entirely different idea of Iran's political situation.

As I referred to above, the Iranian revolution was conceived by Khomeini as a prelude to the coming of the 12th Imam. I'm not making this up, this is in the books he wrote, and if you'd like to educate yourself on the bizarre reality that is Iran you can read "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr.

So the two options you suggested that Iran has are not realistic options. I almost think the international community is only taking the 'diplomatic' route to show that it exhausted every reasonable means to prevent war; but they know that due to Iran's complete domination of every day life that Iran is not gonna turn back from it's apocalyptic agenda of creating the scenario in which the 12th Imam will return from his occultation.

It's crazy, I know.

reply to post by dontreally


I am willing to go to war with Iran over the nuclear issue but going to war to change the regime is something out of the international laws. This violation has been happening in Syria and end of it all people are suffering and their life savings like house etc. are being turned into rubble. No outside country has any business poking their nose into those of other nations. Also, in Iran the current government has been placed after free elections. As to how free and fair they were is another question. In Syria, foreign powers like Saudi, UAE and Turkey are not even waiting for free elections in 2014 and are provoking civil war right away. This is unacceptable.

Iran leaders should go slow and steady on social reforms and offer their population freedoms and opportunities. No need for a knee jerk action like USSR tried and ended up causing depression in the economy and bringing plight to the people for more than 10 years. Chinese way was much better and much less shock on the populations.

reply to post by victor7

I am willing to go to war with Iran over the nuclear issue but going to war to change the regime is something out of the international laws.

Are you serious? The PURPOSE of war is ultimately to change the regime in power. That's the point.

Look in the Bible for a plethora of political examples. Egypt attacks Judea and installs it's own puppet government etc, this is simply how war must be fought, with this goal specifically in mind.

Iran is ruled by a tiny little body, an idea Khomeini borrowed from Plato's Republic called "the guardian council"; The guardian council, a council made up entirely of hardline Muslims, pretty much controls everything in Iran. It manipulates elections by prohibiting certain reformist parties from positions of government, etc.

So getting that frustrating stricture out of the way, how do you expect a Fundamentalist Shi'ite government which came to power on messianic claims and constantly feeds its civilians messianic messages, to all of a sudden stop on the path which coincidentally today marks the 33th (an esoteric number of significance to Iran's mystic minded elite) anniversary of??

Iran has been planning and preparing for this since their very inception. Khomeini literally thought of himself as God incarnate, so identified with Allah in prophetic and mystic rapture, that he thought every one of his thoughts was directed by a higher hand, and so everything he did was essentially blameless and directed by a higher wisdom. Once a member of parliament asked Khomeini how much longer the Iran-Iraq war would go on - millions are being killed; muslims shouldn't be fighting like this. Khomeini replied to him "would you criticize God for making earthquakes?" insinuating that his will was essentially Gods will.

I described that scene because this has been the general tenor of the Islamic revolution since '79. Even with Ahmadinejad, you have constant claims being made that the Imam Mahdi is returning soon, that Shi'ites must prepare the way for the coming of the Imam Mahdi etc; this government is spurred by a messianic fervor that makes so little sense to us that some of us don't even believe it. But if you study the history and learn how this doctrine developed, and how it came to power in 1979, it's an amazing fact which we westerners don't quite fully comprehend the gravity of. Iran is aflame with great expectations for the immediate future. No people - and Saddam learned this during the Iran-Iraq war - sacrifice themselves with such vigor as Iranians did, and this is because of the messianic "12th Imam" mythos going on in Iran's media and culture.

You cannot leave Iran alone, as Iran intends to DESTABILIZE the world to create the scenario they believe will lead to the return of their Imam Mahdi; they can do this with a nuclear weapon. Hence, why they want a nuclear weapon. And why Israelis are understandably scared #less for their lives.

The Muslim world is a world which suffers from problems that is sometimes hard to comprehend. It all emanates from its beginnings, with the killing of Husayn by the Umayyad caliph Yazid I which resulted in the Schism of Sunni and Shi'ite. The Sunni's sided with the caliph, the shi'ites with Husayn. Sunni's are more legal oriented, while Shi'ites are more spiritually and mystically oriented. Shi'ites believe the Imam (the leader of the Muslim community) is an intermediary between man and God, while the Sunni believe the Caliph is nothing more than a political ruler; all humans beings are equal in their relation to God, while Shi'ites believe some human beings are blessed with superior power enabling them to intuit the will of God.

So there's major areas of disagreement, hence, why they are constantly fighting with each other.

Not only are they a huge problem to themselves, but their radicalism makes it an onerous problem for all non-Muslims.

So knowing this, wouldn't you say were at a civilizational impasse? How do we get past this? How do we protect ourselves from them?

I've only outlined Iran's craziness. On the other side you have Sunni fundamentalism represented by the Muslim Brotherhood. The brotherhood is now in power in Egypt; they are currently fighting Iran backed Al assad in Syria; they are currently vying for power in Libya.

The Sunni's are secretly (or not so secretly, but mostly unknown to people who don't study this subject) planning to resurrect the caliphate with Jerusalem as the capital (a symbolic meeting took place in 1934 between Islamic fundamentalists formulating the basics of the plan, in Jerusalem); this means, they essentially want revolution in ALL Arab countries, from Pakistan (excluding shi'ite Iran) to Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, right on down into North Africa. And they've already made a huge gain in Egypt. And if they eventually oust Assad in Syria, they will have Syria as well. Lebanon will be next - and that means, I'm sorry to say, intense civil war between the Shia, Sunni and Christian Arabs.

Israel has every reason to be crapping their pants.

Sanctions only hurt the people we want on our side.

Are they going to hurt the rich in Iran? Nope, they'll still be rich.

Are they going to hurt the poor? Nope, they'll still be poor.

What about the middle class? Yep, they are hurt by the sanctions and they are the people we want on our side.

reply to post by dontreally


Like I said before, defang Islamic nations from developing nukes and related technologies. Offer encouragements for them to modify their regimes and social ways of life and this modification has to be progressive in nature not stagnant.

If people of Iran are electing a Mullah government then that is their choice.

Most definitely these governments have to be DENIED any nukes and be TOLD that if they even use other WMDs like bio or chemicals, then their capitals and major cities will be turned into radioactive glass.

After Iraq, a lesson has been learned that regime change by boots on the ground is expensive and cruel method. Bottomline is to not hurt the people.

Keep these regimes in a contained box and let them get bored with all the cruelty they are inflicting on their own people.

reply to post by jerico65

You may be right, but I'm not yet convinced.

What about the middle class? Yep, they are hurt by the sanctions and they are the people we want on our side.

What if Iranians say, "If only those idiotic leaders of ours would give up on this nuclear bomb idea, we could get the world to stop messing with us. Heck, they'd probably even give us money. I know, let's throw out those crazy old madmen and tell the world we don't want trouble."

Seems like a good outcome. Besides shipping Windex to the area to prepare for cleaning up the remains of the country, what suggestion have you got for keeping the bomb out of crazy people's hands?

Originally posted by charles1952
"If only those idiotic leaders of ours would give up on this nuclear bomb idea,

Being Part of Romneys 53% I miss a lot of Threads... Could you link sir, the Proof of the Pursuit of Nuclear Bombs.
Thank you in Advance.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

Dear Tw0Sides,

You're very welcome. You're a fascinating poster, and add spice to the ATS mix.

I don't know what side of Romney's 47-53 per cent split I'm on. I currently prefer Romney, but I'm a leech, living off the government. I suppose that puts me in the middle 0%.

But, to your question

Could you link sir, the Proof of the Pursuit of Nuclear Bombs.

For this particular situation it's not really necessary. If the Iranian populace believes that their government is working toward bombs, and believes that that is the cause of the world's animosity, there might still be a revolution. UNLESS, the Iranian government is able to prove to their people that they are not working on a bomb. Of course, that would involve full inspections of everything, which is another win for the UN, US, or the rest of the world.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
If the Iranian populace believes that their government is working toward bombs, and believes that that is the cause of the world's animosity,

What if, the Iranian People Believe their Gov has no interest in the Pursuit of Nuclear Bombs, and the Worlds Animosity is unfounded.

Lets put it into closer , but relatable terms.

Every been Accused of Something that You Know you didn't Do?

Did you lie down, and accept the accusation and the ramifications from it?
OR
Did you Step Up and Protest even louder your Innocence while getting Angry over the Accusation?

Iranian's are a Proud People, my friend, they are getting Angry, these Accusations will Bring All Iranians togther to fight a common enemy, Much as 911 brought Americans together.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Sanctions or war, I'll take the sanctions.

There is no justification for either -- unless you've swallowed the propaganda koolaid. In fact, these sanctions are an act of war.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

Dear Tw0Sides,

Thank you, those are good, thought provoking questions.

Every been Accused of Something that You Know you didn't Do?

Did you lie down, and accept the accusation and the ramifications from it?
OR
Did you Step Up and Protest even louder your Innocence while getting Angry over the Accusation?

May I offer a third choice? If I had evidence proving I was innocent, I would jump and down to show it to my accusers, and demand to be acquitted. That, I think, is what the world is asking Iran to do.

What if, the Iranian People Believe their Gov has no interest in the Pursuit of Nuclear Bombs, and the Worlds Animosity is unfounded.

Is it impossible to think that they would tell their government to prove to the world that their country is innocent, thus ending the animosity? But do they think the government has no interest in bombs? I don't know. I suppose there might be a poll out there on the subject, but i confess I haven't looked for it.

As soon as I wrote that sentence, I knew I should be looking for a poll. I found one reported by the BBC in July of this year. www.bbc.co.uk... One of it's findings?

The question that was asked was: "Which way do you prefer to confront the unilateral sanctions of the West against Iran?"

In response, 63% of the respondents selected the option for "the suspension of uranium enrichment in exchange for gradual lifting of sanctions".

It looks like Iranians are very much aware of what their government is doing, and wants them to stop.

With respect,
Charles1952