Iranian economy on verge of collapse

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Dagrlol

 

The Israeli government killing 1.5 million civilians is terrorism.

Ughh, what? What about Iran killing 2 and half billion Canadians?

What? Im assuming that was an attempt to discredit me.

Sources to back up my claims.

www.scribd.com...


Amnesty International Annual Report (years 2000-2007). (top google result)

Couldn't find a link for:
Drinking the Waters at Gaza (1996).

reply to post by detachedindividual


The Nazis repeated that talking point over and over again.

Despite their annexation of Austria, despite their invading Poland, and Czechoslovakia and many other countries, it was the fault of 'international Jewry' for the war.

It makes absolutely no sense how they were able to defend that idea, but apparently it meant that the German program of 'ridding Europe of the Jewish problem' was the real reason for why Britain and Russia declared war on Germany, and not Germany's invasion and occupation of other countries.

reply to post by Dagrlol

What? Im assuming that was an attempt to discredit me.

Rather to mock your insane statements.

And yes, I've read Ilan Pappe

He accuses Israel of "ethnic cleansing' and 'genocide' despite lack of proof for the allegation. It is horrendous scholarly work.

Now, in reality, to say Israel has killed 1.5 million civilians, is to essentially make something up out of thin air.

Without referring me to the works of other people, or any other anti-Israel screed, who are these 1.5 million people they killed?

Omar Al Bashir has in fact killed 1.5 million people in Darfur. An arrest warrant has been issued by the UN; it is impossible to cover up the murder of 1.5 million people.

So where the hell do you get this idea Israel killed 1.5 million people?

In it's entire history, no more than 6,000 -10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, significantly less than the Palestinians killed by Jordans Hashemite government during black September.

Originally posted by dontreally
Iran has lost 45-50 billion from the oil sanctions placed upon them. This is seriously damaging their economy. This is lowering the living standards of many Iranians, so why continue on this path? What rationale could their possibly be other than the true intentions of your nuclear program being for the purpose of developing nuclear weapons?

It just doesn't make a shred of sense to sacrifice your economic well being for the sake of developing nuclear energy; the tradeoff is too great.

The only logical explanation then is that Iran actually wants to develop nuclear weapons.

If 45-50 Billion is a true figure then Iranian leaders are plain simple idiots. If they do not change their ways, another $50B hit coming their way from the bombs and missiles.

Btw, according to Von Paulus, the field marshal who surrendered in Stalingrad and who was one of the main planners of Operation Barbarosa against USSR, Hitler had planned the attack on Russia in the peace time. Hitler was openly told by UK and France that any attack on Poland will result in allies declaring the war but the 'evil swine' went ahead with his gamble anyways. His plans were to defeat Soviet Union quickly and then deal finally with UK and US in the west.

Iran is making similar gambles now and only thing is that it is facing 100 to1 odds in terms of military power. Idiots will ruin their whole country.

Originally posted by Dagrlol

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Dagrlol

 

What point were you trying to make by posting that map?

How exactly is Iran "terrorising" the Israel estate?

Umm, I explained it in the post you're quoting.

Hezbollah, the Shia terrorist organization, is directly funded by Iran. The entire organization was a creation of the Ayatollahs.

They're shooting rockets into northern Israel is terrorism.

The Israeli government killing 1.5 million civilians is terrorism.

If you initial a game of who is the worst, Israel will win.

That was the ottoman empire that killed 1.5 million Armenians,and not the israelis.

The US did not kill 1 million people in iraq, most of those people were killed by muslim on muslim violence (about 24,000 combatants were killed by the US...a big difference between 1 million and 24000). "Jews" did not kick out palestinians...they left on their own (here is abbas saying it on his own www.memritv.org... ).

reply to post by yuppa

The US did not kill 1 million people in iraq, most of those people were killed by muslim on muslim violence

It's just sad that we can't even discuss the politics of the region without automatically assuming US/Israeli guilt.

The politics of Iraq are extremely explosive because of the Shia-Sunni rift. When Saddam was president, Shia were persecuted and in many cases, whole towns were razed. Iranian Shia who wanted to go the holy Shia site of Karbala, to visit the grave of Imam Hussein, were disallowed from going.

As soon as the US came in and Saddam fell, the US essentially provided the Shia with the much awaited opportunity to take control of the northeastern parts of Iraq and especially the town of Karbala from the Sunnis. Of course, fighting ensued.

Most of the deaths since the US entered Iraq are the result of Shia-Sunni internecine conflict, and have little if anything to do with direct US involvement. At most, you can say the US is abetting the Shia against the Sunni, but it's not US soldiers involved in the fighting.

Iraq has always been a more volatile because it is a land in which Shi'ite meets Sunni, Persian meets Arab and Kurd.

reply to post by RizeorDie

and then germany was played as the aggressor simply because germany had NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO ACT!

Germany wasn't played as being an aggressor. Germany was the aggressor. They invaded Poland, and by the way, it was Germany who planned - and executed - the most famous false flag operation in recent History to justify it.

"germany had no other choice but to act!"... Really? I hope you realize you realize that what you call "act" was the main cause for the deaths of millions of innocent people, either by their own hands with slaver work and extermination camps and in the war the caused.

Any educated person would know that Hitler didn't plan to stop there. The SS were created from the Hitler's youth program, the breed of elite soldiers within the definition of true aryans. The german armies that faced the Allied Forces in WW2 were actually meant to be killed anyway because they were considered inferior. Only the SS and the Third Reich they had ambitions of building were true aryans and worthy germans.

Anyone outside of that circle was destined to do slave work, death by extermination and that sort of barbaric actions.

Please explain to me, and all the other members in here, how Hitler is this victim of international pressure and injustice, when he had plans set for generations after him, even before rising to power. I'm curious to know what kind of logic you apply to justify his genocidal ambitions.

I know this is unrelated but i'd like to note that between 1918 and 1930s, that the german populations were oppressed, beaten, killed, and raped in Poland, France, Czech, and Danzig, something we never hear about and all we heard about was 'NAZI started WW2 and wanted to control the world'.

You seem to be unaware that World War I existed prior to WW2. The causes you claim to be the justified reasons for Germany's actions, are actually the consequences of their own actions in WWI.

So if Iran attacks first, which i doubt they will do unless threatened, then there is no one to blame but the zionists

Using one single group of people or a single nation to justify all world's problems - a scapegoat - is a clear statement of ignorance, because it shows that, to you, it's easier to just blame one country, group, or one government for all the wrong in the region, continent or World.

You are not alone in that. A lot of people take pleasure in making out of Israel this modern demon that has stretched it claws around the World. What ignorance prevents that sort of people from seeing, is that if jews or Israel were actually that powerful, they would be the most powerful human force in known History. And History has this nasty habit of teaching us about reality.

It's mentally easier to put all the problems in one group, martyrize it and pin all the wrongs of this world to them. That way, you don't have to look into yourselves. You don't have to assume responsibility, you don't have to admit that you - or your country, or your community, or your religion, or your political position - are actually responsible for some of the bad in the World.

This is a constant in our culture as human beings, and a lot of people are still so stubborn to this reality they refuse any other. Just blame X for it, call them names, call them whatever you want, and everyone will jump on the wagon because that way nobody needs to have the balls to admit they are also part of the problem.

People preach about propaganda, while eating and digesting tons of it.

You know which was the last group to use the zionists or jews as a scapegoat for their own problems?

Nazi Germany.

We have forgot the true reasons behind ww2

Clearly, you have.

And i hope the zionists dont get their way again to write history after that war

History writes itself, it's up to the people willing to learn History to be reasonable enough to understand it. History has no secrets for those who seek - and investigate - the truth.

Let me ask an open question,are economic sanctions an act of war?If yes..i rest my case.
If Iran Closed the Strait of Hormuz would that be an act of war?

The so-called "misery index" is a pretty good indicator of how much the average man on the street in any given nation is feeling the pinch of economic bad times. Essentially, the formula is:

Inflation rate + Bank lending rate + Unemployment rate - Annual change in per-capita GDP (%).

By this metric, it ain't looking pretty in Iran these days:

The sanctions are working and killing their economy. So why not scrap the nuclear program. It will fix the economy. That's why they want nuclear right to help the economy with an energy source.
The only reason they are not caving in to economic sanctions is cause there after wmd's.

And people worried about the Iranian people they should stop burning American flags and start burning their own it's their regime that's making life difficult.

As much as I don't like Netinyahoo; between hamas and the threats from Ahmadinejad I would be doing everything I could to prevent Iran from obtaining nukes.

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy


Good answer! infact Hitler had all or most of his plans laid out in his book Mien Kempf. To attack Russia and push Slavics beyond Ural and occupy the west of Ural territory i.e. Labensraum was well discussed in his evil book.

Iran's leaders are not writing Mein Kempf type books but they sure are openly threatening the destruction of Israel. Such threats have to be taken seriously and Iran and anyother Islamic nation should be denied the possession and production of nuclear weapons.

Western attack on Iran is just few weeks aways. If Iranian regime responds with all sorts of attacks and sea lane blocks, then the whole defensive infrastructure of Iran will be destroyed and regime will be changed by force, either by Iranians themselves or through western pressures raising misery index by several times.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

What is the matter with me? (Or is it you?) This is the second time in one day I've agreed with you. (I feel faint.)

I'm not sure the problem is Iran with nukes, as much as it is that Ahmadinejad would have nukes. Had we supported the Iranian revolution years ago, we might not be having this trouble. With any luck, a crumbling economy will start a second revolution, clearing out the influence of the radicals. At that point we could look at deals and support, etc.

I prefer sanctions, my second choice is the military one (either targeted or general), and my last choice is endless, unproductive talks.

en.wikipedia.org...

As the British historian A. J. P. Taylor noted in his 1963 foreword "Second Thoughts" to his 1961 book The Origins of the Second World War:

It is equally obvious that Lebensraum always appeared as one element in these blueprints. This was not an original idea of Hitler's. It was commonplace at the time. Volk ohne Raum (People Without Space) for instance, by Hans Grimm sold much better than Mein Kampf when it was published in 1928. For that matter, plans for acquiring new territory were much aired in Germany during the First World War. It used to be thought that these were the plans of a few crack-pot theorisers or of extremist organisations. Now we know better. In 1961 a German professor [Fritz Fischer] reported the results of his investigations into German war aims. These were indeed a "blueprint for aggression" or as the professor called them "a grasp at world power": Belgium under German control, the French iron fields annexed to Germany, and, what is more, Poland and the Ukraine to be cleared of their inhabitants and resettled with Germans. These plans were not merely the work of the German General Staff. They were endorsed by the German Foreign Office and by the "good German", Bethmann Hollweg.[11]

This cant be completely accurate, China and russia as well as India AND JAPAN are all exempt from the sanctions on Iran, as in they CAN StILL DO BUSINESS, the last report i heard which was a few days ago claimed China had ramped up its purchase of Iranian Gas and Oil as well as India. Its a handful of countries outside of europe including US and Canada and GB, as well as the EU that are standing by the current sanctions.

www.businessweek.com...
(China was later added as seen here.)
www.bloomberg.com...

Originally posted by all2human
Let me ask an open question,are economic sanctions an act of war?If yes..i rest my case.

If Iran Closed the Strait of Hormuz would that be an act of war?

edit on 30-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

The Economic Sanctions are Justified by the NPT that IRAN SIGNED TO BE ABLE TO BUY NUCLEAR TECH AND NUCLEAR REACTORS! They are the ones that have broken the Treaty...they are the ones that have created this mess...all they have to do is allow Nuclear Inspectors back in...but they won't.

The Iranian Old Religious Guard is under some illusion that if they were able to make a few old style Fission Bombs...this would be a Deterrent to U.S. Military Intervention...it will not be. The U.S. Military will hopefully finish with success the on going Secret Military to Military talks with Iran which do not include the Iranian Government.

The U.S. has FORBIDDEN Israel to Bomb Iranian Nuclear sites as this would poison the whole MIDDLE EAST. The Iranian Navy KNOWS that the Old Guards plan is at the first sign the Pro-Democracy Movement attempts to overthrow them...the Old Guard will order the Iranian Navy to Close the Strait of Hormuz. The Iranian Navy is ANGRY as they KNOW any attempt to close the Strait would Force the U.S. Fifth Fleet to OBLITERATE the entire Iranian Navy. Then the Old Guard could use the THOUSANDS OF DEAD IRANIAN SOLDIERS as well as since this will happen at sea the Old Guard can make up any story they want such as saying Israeli Gun Boats helped the U.S. Kill Iranian Sailors. This would possibly gather the Iranian Population Support around the Old Religious Guard. But what the Old Guard does not know is that Iran's Naval Leadership has NO INTENTION OF FOLLOWING A SUICIDAL ORDER! They know they would all DIE QUICKLY and there would remain nothing left of a Navy to protect Iran. So...they will STAND DOWN...so will the Iranian Air Force as well as the Army with the exception of One Division Loyal to the Old Guard as they are HIGHLY PAID as well as BRUTAL IN THE EXTREME! The U.S. Will most likely have to destroy this division with a Wing of B-52H's equipt with New Smart Carpet Bombing Munitions and as we did with One of Saddam's Loyal Republican Guard Division...Night Strike with a Wing of B-52H's and all 100,000 Men Died. Next Morning after word got out as Soldiers from other Divisions Hundreds of Miles away said they could Hear and See the Destruction. All Iraqi Divisions surrendered that Morning and most Iraqi Soldiers stripped of their uniforms and walked home. We would have to attack this division as we would be Airdropping Special Forces and Rangers to seize all Iranian Nuclear Sites. If they attempted a counter attack they will be targeted...the other Iranian Army Divisions will STAND DOWN. Israel MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO FIGHT! The Iranian Military will STAND DOWN to the U.S. Military as they find no DISHONOR in disobeying SUICIDAL ORDERS plus they will become the Protectors of a New FREE DEMOCRATIC IRAN...but if Israel were to get involve...they would FIGHT! HONOR plays a huge part in this whole plan and STANDING DOWN to the U.S. MILITARY is one thing but not ISRAEL! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Dear SplitInfinity,

Thank you for a thoughtful and thorough analysis. My best hope is that the "reasonable" Iranians take their country back from the radicals who would then become totally ineffective (or dead). If Obama could manage this before the elections it would be a huge win for him, and the world.

But if it took him three tries to decide to get Osama, I can't imagine he'll gamble on this one.

Thanks again for your work.

With respect,
Charles1952

Yes, the sanctions are the only thing thats affecting Iranian economy,because it's impossible for such a bright, anti-imperialist superior being such as Ahmadinejad to turn a country's economy into crap. Same applies to Cuba, the blockade is the only reason for the less-than-mediocre conditions they have on that poor little island. Fidel has done nothing but help,

reply to post by charles1952

Thank you for the Kind words. People do not realize that the decision to remove the Iranian Government has already been made. The U.S. cannot allow a Country that is attempting to build Nukes to control the Worlds Oil Blood Line. The Iranian Regime has some CRAZY idea that if they build a few old style Fission Bombs which would be TRUCK SIZED and we can EASILY track these from Satellite Detection as well as Mobile Units....that once they have Nukes they will be RESPECTED AND FEARED! This has done the opposite...the Moment they told the World Media that they had Tens of Thousands of Centrifuges and were building more...this was the beginning of the end of Iran's Government.

You DO NOT THREATEN A SUPER POWER WITH NUCLEAR AMBITIONS! YOU DO NOT THREATEN TO CLOSE THE WORLDS OIL BLOOD LINE....THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ! Iran's Old Religious Guard is about to become HISTORY and they still believe they can win! Fortunately IRAN'S MILITARY LEADERSHIP has no intention of becoming very dead...very soon. This is very much like Iraq but since 94% of all Iranian's WANT GOOD RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES...and if we can pull this off with minimal loss of Iranian Life...we just might find a NEW PERSIAN ALLY!

The Ramifications of a FREE DEMOCRATIC IRAN that is a U.S. Ally would CHANGE THE MIDDLE EAST AND THE WORLD! There is a 60% Possibility this could happen if the plan goes well. 70% of all Iranians are Under 30 Years Old. There are MILLIONS OF IRANIAN AMERICANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES. This younger computer and Smart phone Savvy Generation is using Social Network Sites to talk to Relatives in the U.S.

If everything goes as planned...and ISRAEL DOES NOT GET INVOLVED...as this will force the Iranian Military to Fight as this is all about HONOR...there is no DISHONOR TO STANDING DOWN and not obeying SUICIDAL ORDERS. There is no DISHONOR TO STANDING DOWN TO U.S. FORCES which have no intention to conquer but to enforce a Nuclear Treaty Iran Broke. There is no DISHONOR TO STAND DOWN to U.S. Military Forces that Iran's Military cannot barely DENT never mind have any chance of even putting up a struggle. And there is NO DISHONOR TO DISOBEY AN ORDER FROM YOUR LEADERSHIP THAT PLANS TO USE YOUR DEATHS AS A WAY FOR THEM TO STAY IN POWER! THAT is the BEST REASON OF ALL FOR IRANIAN MILITARY LEADERSHIP TO STAND DOWN! They KNOW they are being used by the Old Guard and their best use is their DEATHS! There is no worse case scenario of BETRAYAL!

If they were asked to fight for a reason such as to defend Iran against a Force that was Killing their Population...then they would FIGHT! But they are being SET UP TO DIE! THEY KNOW THIS...AND THEY WANT PAYBACK! Split Infinity

Originally posted by PrestonSpace
The sanctions are working and killing their economy. So why not scrap the nuclear program.

People who support sanctions on Iran are typical westerners who never traveled the world.

Iranian nuclear program is national PRIDE, stopping the nuclear program would be seen as
yielding to the foreign power. Travel to Iran and get to learn their way of thinking.

In fact if no one made a big deal of their nuclear program, they would be more likely to
sacrifice it.

reply to post by LostPassword

You are wrong about Iranian National Pride in the form of Nuclear Programs. The VAST MAJORITY of Iranian's are interested in one thing....Getting RID OF THEIR CURRENT RELIGIOUS REGIME! The Old Religious Guard used Military Troops in PLAIN CLOTHS to infiltrate and BEAT TO DEATH anyone deemed a Pro-Democracy Leader.

The NATIONAL PRIDE you talk of only exists in the form of words from the Propaganda Mouth Piece of the Iranian Regime. These are the Numbers....70% of all Iranians are below the age of 30 Years Old. 94% of all Iranians want GOOD RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES. 96% of all Iranians want a Democratic Government with OPEN ELECTIONS AND THE END OF STONE AGE RELIGIOUS LAWS.

These 70% Young Computer and Smart Phone Savvy Iranians are piercing the Regimes Internet Filters and using the Internets Social Sites are speaking with the MILLIONS OF IRANIAN AMERICANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES. They are getting the real facts about AMERICAN LIFE....and will be and are a FORCE that will overthrow the Old Religious Guard.

The Current Iranian Regime will be removed...NOTHING CAN STOP THAT NOW. All that matters is How and When as well as the U.S. keeping Israel Out of the Fight as well as THE REAL IRANIAN MILITARY LEADERSHIP STANDING DOWN as a deal has been made.

As I have said...IRAN's Government cannot expect to remain in Power after THREATENING A SUPER POWER WITH THE CLOSING OF THE WORLDS OIL BLOOD LINE. As well as breaking the NPT and attempting to build Nuclear Bombs. The MOMENT they threatened to Close the Strait...the Iranian Regimes FATE WAS SEALED!

I travel the World in several capacities and I can tell you that the Iranian People want their Old Religious Regime...GONE! Only the U.S. Military has the capability to work a deal with the Iranian Military to STAND DOWN. Only the U.S. Military can seize all Nuclear Sites. And Israel has been FORBIDDEN to Bomb Iranian Nuclear Sites. Bombing these sites would poison the whole MIDDLE EAST! They must be dismantled.

The Bravado the World Media hears if from a Old Guard Mouth Piece and statements such as we will DESTROY THE AMERICAN NAVY IN OUR HOME WATERS! Is ridiculous! The REAL Iranian Military KNOW a WAR with the U.S. would OBLITERATE THE ENTIRE IRANIAN MILITARY. Add in the issue of Nuclear Material and you get a U.S. Military Attack...if the Iranian Military does not stand down...of such scope and ferocity that I am actually FEARFUL of the Numbers of Iranian Dead. It could go as High as 500,000...or it could be as low as a Few Hundred. Regardless...Iran's Regime will be removed and Iran's Nuclear Program will be dismantled. THOSE are the FACTS!

The U.S. CANNOT ALLOW ISRAEL TO GET INTO A WAR WITH IRAN! 1. Israel does not have the Manpower or Capabilities other than to duke it out. 2. Israel cannot FORCE THE IRANIAN MILITARY TO STAND DOWN. 3. Israel would play right into the PLANS of the IRANIAN REGIME as they WANT ISRAEL TO ATTACK! 4. An Israeli attack would inflame the whole Middle East. 5. The U.S. cannot take chances that Iran might give Nuclear Fuel to a Terrorist Group...only the U.S. has the DETECTION CAPABILITIES TO KNOW WHERE EVERY NUCLEAR SITE IS AS WELL AS HIDDEN AMOUNTS OF NUCLEAR FUEL. Our Detection Capabilities are so sensitive that we can even detect Medical Radiation Therapy. We can also detect Nuclear Fuel Contained inside a LEAD BOX! We also can determine whether it is Uranium or Plutonium and approx. what amount. as well as what Level of Enrichment the Fuel is at. This is done by detection of Gamma Rays, X-Rays of which there are several frequencies...Neutron Decay...IR-LIGHT SIGNATURE of a LEAD BOX CONTAINING NUCLEAR FUEL...etc. The U.K. asked the U.S. to Patrol and Detect for any possible Nuclear Material headed to London during the Olympics. A Truck loaded with Radioactive Garments from a Hospital that does Radiation Therapy gave everyone a scare as it was detected driving around....THAT IS THE LEVEL OF DETECTION CAPABILITIES.
So...we will know if Iran attempts to sneak out any Uranium and if they think that we do not know about where all their Secret Nuclear Sites are...they are SADLY MISTAKEN! They signed the NPT ONLY TO BUILD A BOMB! But the U.S. Military cannot be deterred by Nuclear Weapons of this nature. We could easily SHOOT DOWN ALL OF CHINA'S ICBM'S AS WELL AS SLBM'S IF WE HAD TO...so Iran with one or two 1945 type Fission Bombs the size of a TRUCK? The OLD RELIGIOUS GUARD IS IN FANTASY LAND and they do not care how many of their own people die as long as they remain in power! THEY MUST BE REMOVED AND THEY WILL BE! Split Infinity