I've Had A Change Of Heart On The Boy Scouts.

I'm a fan of Penn And Teller's show, Bullsh**. One of their episodes is aimed at the Boy Scouts of America and how they now discriminate against homosexuals and atheists.

The main points of the show is that it has been co-opted by the Mormon Church and is being turned into another Christian group who discriminates against anything that isn't Christian. This discrimination is something new, and has only been around for a few decades now.

And in fact, they changed the Scout Oath so that it encourages a duty to God before country and to people. This is something you'll learn from watching this episode if you decide to watch it.

In the past I would've said so what? Such is their right to because it's a private organization. Private organizations have their rights to determined who they want in their groups. It may be deplorable because it is discrimination

But what floored me in watching this episode was that I learned is that the BSA receives public funds for its activities.

And that has caused me to turn against the BSA. I'm sorry, but if you're going to use public funding that means you should be open to the public and you should not discriminate against people. Or you should not use use public funds to support your beliefs and activities. Discrimination is wrong, even in a private group, but it's somehow more wrong to discriminate if you're a public group. I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to explain it, this is how i feel about the matter.

I strongly believe in civil rights and liberties for all Americans. The unfortunate part to this is that a private group does have the right to discriminate against people it doesn't want, even if it is a deplorable action.

But being public is not private. The Supreme Court has ruled that being in public means there is no right to privacy in some cases. That's how Paparazzi are able to get public photos of celebrities. If something is completely open to the public, there is no right to discriminate.

I can't put a link to the episode here, because it has foul language in it and will be trashed, but you can find the full episode on you tube. I would love to post the video here to show you, though.

So in short, I can no longer support the BSA discriminatory practices any more because it uses public funding. If it didn't use public funding, I would still say "so what" to the objections of some people, because I firmly believe in the right to privacy and the right of association.

because of a TV show hosted by the biggest hypocrite out there?

Good thing you aren't awake.... I was a boy scout this was never an issue......

reply to post by DrNotforhire


Calling them a hypocrite is a fallacy. Just because they are hypocrites doesn't mean they don't have any real points to make. Calling them a hypocrite does not invalidate the points they make. It's just a deflection.

They often make real points in the show.

But please keep to the topic which is about the BSA using public funds while they discriminate against non-Christians in some cases. Please do not make it about the show.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


it is about the show, were you a boyscout??? I had non christians in my troop in fact I had a couple kids burn bibles that were handed to them by Veterans.... and you know what they said "its their right"

I call bull on this entire show and teller is just a loud mouth liberal with no proof and that show is just as bad

I was a Cub Scout, Webelo, and a Boy Scout. We had non-Christians in our troops and there was no problem. If we had homosexuals, I never knew it. I absolutely 100% oppose homosexuals being in scouts and definitely being scout masters. However, I have no problem with non-Christian boys being in a troop.
Regarding the use of public funds, I oppose ALL private groups gaining public funds except in execution of a contract to build something the country needs ie infrastructure, planes, ships etc...

reply to post by DrNotforhire


Please watch the episode before make assumptions about it.

It does show proof of the discrimination and who is doing and the public funding.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


nope, I dont like that loud mouth and hes usually wrong on everything... Last time I watched his BS show I fact checked him and he was completely false....

I enjoyed the BSA, and learned a lot of valuable life lessons and survival lessons and how to work as a team

I was an Eagle Scout. My Dad was scout master all throughout. My boys were in cub scouts last year. I am also an atheist. When the Boy Scouts re-affirmed their discrimination policy over the summer, we made the decision not to join this year. It was a very tough decision - one that I'm still not 100% sure on, as I do realize the benefits to be gained - but I could not bring myself or my family to support an organization that openly discriminates as they do. I realize that doesn't mean the discrimination happens at a local level - sometimes it does, sometime it doesn't - but having the governing body of an organization openly toute their discrimination policy was enough to push me over the edge.

reply to post by DrNotforhire

I enjoyed the BSA, and learned a lot of valuable life lessons and survival lessons and how to work as a team

This could be so important if ever any of these doomsday predictions come true...including natural disasters. My son was also a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout. He will KNOW how to prepare in times of trouble, whereas many of his friends never experienced such. You cannot learn survivals skills from a video, or T.V., for they must be practiced over and over. As for public funding, would that include our taxes that go to nations that want to destroy us, our taxes that go to so many things that we might be against? What makes a person so angry over one thing supported instead of another? (Personal I suppose). What I don't agree with is the labeling of homosexuals as pedophiles. There are pedophiles everywhere...not just priests, scouts and in schools. Although they may attract to these institutions, they just may be right out your front door!

Originally posted by elrem48
reply to post by DrNotforhire

 

I enjoyed the BSA, and learned a lot of valuable life lessons and survival lessons and how to work as a team

This could be so important if ever any of these doomsday predictions come true...including natural disasters. My son was also a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout. He will KNOW how to prepare in times of trouble, whereas many of his friends never experienced such. You cannot learn survivals skills from a video, or T.V., for they must be practiced over and over. As for public funding, would that include our taxes that go to nations that want to destroy us, our taxes that go to so many things that we might be against? What makes a person so angry over one thing supported instead of another? (Personal I suppose). What I don't agree with is the labeling of homosexuals as pedophiles. There are pedophiles everywhere...not just priests, scouts and in schools. Although they may attract to these institutions, they just may be right out your front door!

edit on 27-9-2012 by elrem48 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-9-2012 by elrem48 because: (no reason given)

but when you are 8-16 years old homosexuality debates SHOULDNT EVEN BE AN ISSUE. They never were hell I didnt know what gay was till I started voting.... Thats just ridiculous... The BSA got me into a great school having "eagle scout" on my resume is awesome...

There are no downsides at all for the children, its just the parents who are intolerant keeping their kids out of the BSA.

There are no downsides at all for the children, its just the parents who are intolerant keeping their kids out of the BSA.

It's all about principle. My kids go to a Quaker school where one of the main tenants is tolerance. We have a lesbian couple with kids living across the street from us. The big upside for them is a life lesson - we had a chat as to why we chose not to rejoin, and they said they understood and agreed. Years from now I think they will still understand and agree with the decision, but hopefully the Boy Scouts will have changed their policy by then.

reply to post by redtic
As an eagle scout, you have all of the requisite skills. Why don't you leave the BSA alone and start your own group allowing homosexuals and whatever persons you choose?

reply to post by DrNotforhire


I agree about the exposure to these subjects nowadays, I also grew up in an era where "youth was for the youth." Apparently many things have changed since then (unfortunately in many cases), and I gather alot of the changes are because we allow more tolerance of different ideals. In turn, tolerance to homosexuals is imparted and endorsed in school curriculums as opposed to my day where even speaking about it was frowned upon. Nevertheless, I'm thankful my son had the scout experience, as we are all individuals who should be treated as such. It bothers me MUCH more that my tax dollars go to countries that want to kill us. That's just me.

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
because of a TV show hosted by the biggest hypocrite out there?

Good thing you aren't awake.... I was a boy scout this was never an issue......

ditto, and ditto

I agree mate, this green lantern fella doesn't know what he's talking about. I think any boy who wants to be in the BSA should be given the opportunity regardless of any kind of belief, race, sexual orientation, whatever.

I am an eagle scout.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


OP, it really doesn’t matter whether people agree with BSA policies or not because BSA is entitled to exclude anyone they chose. BSA is protected by the first amendment and has Freedom of Association? How can you pull its federal funding for exercising its constitutional rights?

PBS gets federal funding and all it does is pander to liberal agendas! So What? That's life! If we're going to cut one then we should cut them all.

Originally posted by Gwampo
I think any boy who wants to be in the BSA should be given the opportunity regardless of any kind of belief, race, sexual orientation, whatever.

I am an eagle scout.

I ask you the same question that the other guy will not answer(apparently); why not leave the BSA alone and start your own group? The tolerant scouts or something.

reply to post by seabag

Cut them all. The government should not be supporting the BSA or PBS.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

The main points of the show is that it has been co-opted by the Mormon Church and is being turned into another Christian group who discriminates against anything that isn't Christian. This discrimination is something new, and has only been around for a few decades now.

That is such complete and utter BS. Scout troops are sponsored by localities, the troop I was in was sponsored by a Catholic Church for instance, and every Parish had their own organization. And at major events we met troops from Baptist, Luthern, Catholic, Etc etc etc. The fear mongering, the hatred, the blatant bigotry against Mormons is reminiscent of anti-semitism.

You can't be gay in any Scouting organization by the way, from any denomination.

But being public is not private. The Supreme Court has ruled that being in public means there is no right to privacy in some cases. That's how Paparazzi are able to get public photos of celebrities. If something is completely open to the public, there is no right to discriminate.

That case doesn't apply my friend. I don't even understand how you're trying to relate public photography and privacy laws to private membership organizations. Scouts are not "public" either.. you can be kicked out for any number of reasons, must pay dues, and adhere to their private standards.

I can think of many worse things the government could donate to than a troops of boys (and girls for the girl scouts) trying to learn, be with friends, and take on leadership roles. Whenever I see someone like you rant and rave about this I just have to think "wtf is wrong with this perosn"? Are you so cynical? Bah .. it disgusts me.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by redtic

 

As an eagle scout, you have all of the requisite skills. Why don't you leave the BSA alone and start your own group allowing homosexuals and whatever persons you choose?

Not sure what you mean by "leave the BSA alone" - it's not as if I'm publicly boycotting or suing them - I'm just voicing an opinion. And thanks for your suggestion and concern - there are a number of other groups out there that do just that and we're pursuing those possibilities.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


The whole anti-gay thing didn't even occur due to gay scouts it was a gay "den-mother"
Then there a number of high-profile expulsions of openly gay members.

Think of it from this perspective. You're sending your boy off to summer camp where he will be sleeping with other kids in the same tent/bunk house. Would you want boys and girls sleeping together? No.. no you wouldn't. Would you want your boy sleeping with a boy who likes to have sex with .. boys? No .. because it's the same thing. I fully support people's right to be gay. I also support scouts for expelling homosexual members as the possible situations that could arise should never be given the opportunity to arise in the first place. Putting a homosexual teenage boy in a camp with teenage boys? Come on .. might as well take a teenage boy and place him in a girl scout sleep over.