Your Spirit is Real, it is The Creation, It is GOD, Pray to it

reply to post by jiggerj

And when someone tells you there's an all-knowing, all-powerful, invisible being who created the whole universe and who lives in another dimension called heaven, well, my eyebrows raise to the top of my head.

Doesn't mean there isn't a higher power, or what one might call a "higher power" (for lack of a better term)...it just means people have a very limited understanding of that power, and it comes across as idiocy. Because they don't know any better.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Your post has the flavor of a man who must be pushed off of a cliff before he believes you when you say it's there. And also: we ARE an egg. Ever read the egg story? It's quite inspiring.

It says absolutely nothing, makes no sense at all, and offers no reason to believe in it. We can do What if's all day and it's not going to offer any proof at all.

I feel like a Wright brother. Thank you for taking the time to close your mind - when you're ready, the future will be waiting.

edit on 26-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Hey, I don't have to be pushed off a cliff. Just give me ONE piece of logical, rational, scientific evidence of a god. Mind you, don't give me NON-evidence as evidence. Meaning, we don't know how the first living cell was created and that proves the existence of god. Uh-uh, it proves we don't how the cell was created.

You can't give any hard evidence because the Catholic and Jewish religion is based on NON-evidence. I imagine a lot of people back then had to say, "Just believe it, mmm-K? Just believe it!"

Non-evidence:

Where's the body of Jesus? Ummm, it floated up and away.
Where's the Holy Grail? Ummm, don't know.
Where's the ark of the covenant? Ummm, don't know.
Where's the tablets with the ten commandments on them? Ha! I know this one! They're in the ark of the covenant!

The Israelites roamed the desert for forty years! They must have dropped a LOT of stuff on their journey. Surely, with our technology we should be able to fly over the desert and detect SOMETHING DOWN THERE. But, I haven't heard anything on the news about it. You?

reply to post by jiggerj


Look up the Flower of Life. It all starts with spirit. Where does spirit come from? Same place as consciousness. If you study consciousness and its role in physics and matter, then extend that to the flower of life, you have the blue print of god.

You may not call it god, but that's on you. I just gave you evidence of what can be viewed as divinity, because literally EVERYTHING can be found in the flower of life. In fact, the flower of life leads to the fruit of life, which leads to the creation of a geometrical design that mimics all of the subatomic structures we are aware of today.

Don't tell me there is no divinity in that. There's an INTELLIGENCE to such design. It doesn't "just happen". You don't believe in a higher power because you think Christians own the monopoly on the concept. That just isn't so. Higher powers have been around longer than any faith or religion on earth; you just have to find what it means to YOU. Because that's all truth is: perspective.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj

 

And when someone tells you there's an all-knowing, all-powerful, invisible being who created the whole universe and who lives in another dimension called heaven, well, my eyebrows raise to the top of my head.

Doesn't mean there isn't a higher power, or what one might call a "higher power" (for lack of a better term)...it just means people have a very limited understanding of that power, and it comes across as idiocy. Because they don't know any better.

Doesn't mean there isn't? That doesn't mean anything! You base your beliefs on "Doesn't mean there isn't" a god? Then you MUST have faith that every fairy tale is true, because even though we can't find any evidence it doesn't mean that these creatures don't exist - dragons, griffins, cyclops, gorgons, sirens...

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj

 

dragons, griffins, cyclops, gorgons, sirens...

Iv'e heard that sirens are sexy.

reply to post by jiggerj

Doesn't mean there isn't? That doesn't mean anything! You base your beliefs on "Doesn't mean there isn't" a god? Then you MUST have faith that every fairy tale is true, because even though we can't find any evidence it doesn't mean that these creatures don't exist - dragons, griffins, cyclops, gorgons, sirens...

What's your stance to believe there isn't a higher power? Don't get me wrong, my definition of a higher power would get me excommunicated from most Catholic settings. I have an...unusual view on the topic. But what's your reasoning for saying there is no higher power?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

The Flower of Life is the modern name given to a geometrical figure composed of multiple evenly-spaced, overlapping circles.

Okay, that's a nice scientific description.

They are arranged to form a flower-like pattern with a sixfold symmetry, similar to a hexagon. The center of each circle is on the circumference of six surrounding circles of the same diameter.

Hey, thanks! Now I know what the flower of life is.

There are many spiritual beliefs associated with the Flower of Life

Whoops! Just went from scientific to unfounded spiritual beliefs. This isn't scientific. It's bull. Can you see how the connection falls apart? It goes from a physical, rational explanation, to an unverifiable belief.

I hold the belief that the Flower of Life represents the circles of reincarnation. See how this works? Just because I say I hold a belief doesn't make anything factual.

Just face it. You want to believe in a god, spirits, angels, and demons JUST BECAUSE. That's all. No proof, no evidence, no rational thought, and all of it totally illogical. You just want to pretend to believe it. If people just admitted this, then atheists would have nothing to debate on. "Well, the guy knows it's not true, but pretends to believe. I can't argue with that."

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Doesn't mean there isn't? That doesn't mean anything! You base your beliefs on "Doesn't mean there isn't" a god? Then you MUST have faith that every fairy tale is true, because even though we can't find any evidence it doesn't mean that these creatures don't exist - dragons, griffins, cyclops, gorgons, sirens...

What's your stance to believe there isn't a higher power? Don't get me wrong, my definition of a higher power would get me excommunicated from most Catholic settings. I have an...unusual view on the topic. But what's your reasoning for saying there is no higher power?

First off, you wrote that you have a view on the topic. That's fine. When I toy with the idea of a god I have a totally different view, too. And in no way do either of us claim that a 'view' is true, or even logical.

Now, your question is twofold. Why don't I believe in a god of the bible, and, why don't I believe in any higher power. I'll try to be brief.

There have to be thousands of gods that people actually believed in. List of Gods

Now, if I handed you this list and asked to say yes or no on which god is real, you would say, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO...(a thousand times)...NO NO NO, Jesus YES, God YES.

This would be absurd. If all those gods are man-made inventions, what makes Jesus and God the REAL ones? Deductive reasoning tells us, at the very least, if all those gods are false, then there better be some hard HARD evidence to support Jesus and/or God. If no hard evidence, then these two are just as false as all the others.

Why don't I believe in any old higher power: Because there's no such thing as 'perfection'. There can be no such thing as a perfect being. Perfect, flawless, going through all of eternity without EVER making a mistake. Also, if something COULD be perfect, nothing IMperfect could come from it. Perfection cannot create imperfection. If a perfect higher power created us, we would be perfect.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

dragons, griffins, cyclops, gorgons, sirens...
Iv'e heard that sirens are sexy.

I tried kissing one once, but someone yelled at me to get off the fire truck.

reply to post by jiggerj

Now, your question is twofold. Why don't I believe in a god of the bible, and, why don't I believe in any higher power. I'll try to be brief.

I couldn't care less about the "god" of the Bible. Literally, I couldn't care less. I might as well worship Harry Potter. So, no, that wasn't one of my questions.

Now, if I handed you this list and asked to say yes or no on which god is real, you would say, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO...(a thousand times)...NO NO NO, Jesus YES, God YES.

Any of the regulars on this forum would tell you that's blatantly incorrect, regarding my view of spirituality.

Why don't I believe in any old higher power: Because there's no such thing as 'perfection'. There can be no such thing as a perfect being. Perfect, flawless, going through all of eternity without EVER making a mistake.

That's because you have a human grasp of the idea of perfection. What if the nature of perfection is the ability to make mistakes? What if the idea of perfection is the quality of imperfection, by which to learn that there is no way to NOT be flawed? To make peace with that?

The problem isn't the idea, it's how you're looking at it. If you want to ignore that fact, then go right ahead. I can't stop you. However, if education is what you seek in this matter, you'll have to lose some of your preconceptions and self-taught ideals. We have been around certain ideas for so long, we take them for granted, we take them as truth. We believe that wandering outside of that box is too risky, too dangerous, or just not worthwhile. And that's why we never realize that there's a hundred other windows to look from, and we've each chosen the smallest window - the one right in front of us.

As we grow up, we learn to notice more and more about what we see through that little window, and we connect the things we see in more and more ways. But we continue to ignore the fact that if we cross the room, we'll see another panoramic view of what lies outside...and if we take two steps sideways, THERE'S A DOOR. We ignore it because that room, that window, is familiar to us. And that means comfort. That means survival.

Step outside your comfort zone, let go of what's familiar, and expand your horizons. If you cannot do that, if you cannot at least try, I cannot discuss this with you, because you will never listen, and we will never connect. But I hope you will try; I'm sure we have much to learn from one another.

I disagree. The essence (ousia) of God is incomprehensible and beyond all nous (greek word with many meanings- but intellect/knowing/truth is the closest). If we are the creation (as you say) then it is impossible to also be the uncreated. People can experience God through His energies (energeia) but not His essence (ousia). Since people are icons of God, we can become like God, but will never become God.

"God is spirit and truth, who seeks worshippers (communers) who worship (commune) in spirit and in truth."
~ Jesus, to the woman at the well.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I don't think "god" means what you think it means...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

That's because you have a human grasp of the idea of perfection. What if the nature of perfection is the ability to make mistakes? What if the idea of perfection is the quality of imperfection, by which to learn that there is no way to NOT be flawed? To make peace with that?

Okay, I'm listening. Describe a higher being (and I'm assuming you don't mean a more intelligent species as we consider aliens visiting us from another planet), that isn't perfect, and yet still a god?

As for your statement of perfection being a quality of imperfection, I admit I'm looking at it as either perfection is perfect or it isn't. Can't be imperfect at the same time. What you propose is that a 90 degree temperature can also be 65 degrees. That a wet cloth can also be considered dry.

So, eyes wide open to facts. Enlighten me!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
"God is spirit and truth, who seeks worshippers (communers) who worship (commune) in spirit and in truth."
~ Jesus, to the woman at the well.

Who told you this? Did you ask for some proof? Any proof?

Did you get this idea from a nearly 2000 year old book? And you accept it without question? I'm not even challenging whether it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that the adults of that time (in and around Jerusalem) never went to school and probably had the intelligence of one of today's second or third grade students, and you don't question what he says.

Further: Today, in the Middle East there are many that don't believe girls should go to school. It's been in the news lately that people are throwing acid in the faces of little girls on their way to school. In another school, 100 students died from a bomb. That's how determined these people are to keep their females stupid.

Tell me, do you question this, or do you think it's right to hurt little girls?