Liposomal Vitamin C may cause a misdiagnosis of diabetes or interfere with glucose monitoring

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posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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I have been following the thread below, and nearly every post in it, from the beginning:

I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

And while I have posted this information there, it concerns me that something as important as this might be to some people, that it is buried on page 65 of that thread and might just be missed.

So I'm creating a separate thread to increase the visibility of this potentially very important information for anyone considering this protocol.

******************************

I'm a big believer in managing one's own health. I exercise, take certain supplements, watch my diet very closely and monitor through a variety of devices and routine testing much of my blood work and other vitals to track progress on anything of particular concern.

Recently, I noticed a trend of increasing glucose serum levels in my body. Nothing extreme, but worrisome nonetheless, as much of what I have been doing should keep the levels well below the top range of normal in a fasted state. Yet that is not what was happening in my case.

I considered anything new I was doing in my diet, including liposomal C, and went hunting for a possible reason.

Here is what I found:




High Doses of Vitamin C Supplement Increase Blood Glucose Levels

According to the July issue of Diabetes Care, high doses of supplementary vitamin C may cause an unexpected elevation of blood sugar levels and false diagnosis of type 2 diabetes.

Donald R. Branch, PhD, reports the case of a 49-year-old, slightly obese man who took high levels of vitamin C, causing high fasting (121 mg/dl) and after-meal (220 mg/dl) blood sugar levels. The man, who had earlier been diagnosed as a potential candidate for type 2 diabetes based on his age, obesity and repeat elevated blood sugar readings, had taken 4,500 mg. per day of a synthetic, unsweetened vitamin C product for the past five years.

The patient was asked to discontinue the supplement and, after seven days, morning blood sugar averages dropped to 99 mg/dl. He then restarted vitamin C supplements in dosages of 4,500 mg. per day, and morning blood sugars rose to 110 mg/dl. He discontinued the supplement again and, after one week, blood sugars dropped to 79 mg/dl.

Branch says that elevated blood sugars, as a result of taking such a high dose of vitamin C, "...could result in a misdiagnosis of diabetes and/or additional, unnecessary testing, as in this case." He adds that "..vitamin C-induced production of glucose may interfere in the glucose monitoring of true diabetic patients."

Branch says that the man reduced his vitamin C intake to 1,500 mg. per day, and his blood sugars returned to the normal range.



So I found my answer. Accordingly, I now think I will return to using liposomal C for acute issues like colds or other illness. All other times, I'm backing off considerably.

Everyone who is thinking about taking liposomal vitamin C should be aware of this information.

Hopes this helps some of you.


edit on 21-9-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Liposomal encapsulated vitamin c is amazing. I am educated and research my vitamins before I take them - all eleven of them!

Liposomal encapsulated vitamin c is an excellent method of making your own vitamin c - strengthening your resistance to illness and learning about science - as you make your own vitamins.

Government websites will always disinform readers - follow the money trail. Anything on this planet that doesn't benefit big pharma or the cabal/illuminati/whatever will be "bad' for you or dangerous or have a 'fault' of some kind.

I do my own research and utilise my own intellect - that is how I discern how something is a risk or not - not because an article somewhere tells me what to think.

Much Peace...



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 



Originally posted by Amanda5
Government websites will always disinform readers


As do many non-government websites.



Originally posted by Amanda5
I do my own research and utilise my own intellect - that is how I discern how something is a risk or not - not because an article somewhere tells me what to think.


Apparently you missed the part where I arrived at this information because of my OWN monitoring experience.


If this information is of little concern to you, then fine.

But I think others have a right to be aware of the possibility and proceed accordingly.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by loam
 

Hey thanks Loam!!!!

As a Type 1 Diabetic that is some handy info to have. Since I was diagnosed (almost 2 years ago) I have learned that there are many things that effect glucose that I never would have considered or imagined.

I wonder what it is about high doses of Vit C causes the rise. Very interesting!



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 


That is why I why I used the word discern. Diet is important and many people who are diagnosed with diabetes late in life learn that their diet has contributed to the diabetes. Learning to know your own body is important and learning to know what your body needs. No website can dictate what each person needs for their body - that is why it is very important to discern.

Governments like to make money and control - getting diabetes is one way for the government to ensure that the person is dependent on them - providing them with revenue for their medical needs. Learn about your own body and know what you need to be healthy. Scaring people is a great disinformation tactic and fear is a great control tactic. Fear also creates stress and that also keeps people ill and searching for cures to their health issues.

Much Peace...



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


Everything I've looked at on this doesn't involve liposomal delivery, which we know significantly increases the bio-availability of vitamin C .

A few NIH studies confirm that at LOW doses (under 2,000mg) Vitamin C lowers glucose serum levels. But at higher levels, the opposite seems to happen- although I've had trouble finding a whole lot of material on this.

Frankly, I'm arriving at a conclusion that if you take liposomal vitamin C, it really should be for brief periods of time to address some acute condition. It concerns me that by bypassing the titration to bowel tolerance, one overrides the biological mechanism that determines how much Vitamin C your body actually needs.

I'm considering returning to the non-liposomal form... titrating to bowel tolerance...and calculating liposomal dosage from there.

Periodically, I guess the titration method should be repeated.

Seems to be a prudent approach to me.


If one decides not to adjust dosage based upon titration, then I think dosage should probably remain below 2,000mg- at least until more in known.

Just my $0.02.
edit on 21-9-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 



Originally posted by Amanda5
Learn about your own body and know what you need to be healthy. Scaring people is a great disinformation tactic and fear is a great control tactic. Fear also creates stress and that also keeps people ill and searching for cures to their health issues.


I think you are lost in the wrong thread.


But if you feel I'm scaring people, dis-informing them, and advocating they do something other than research for themselves, then you've made your point.


Notwithstanding, liposomal Vitamin C users beware...

This has been MY experience.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


I think it would be more helpful to us when sharing your experience is if you would follow through with a new blood test after withholding the Lipo Vit C for a period of time to see what the results are, rather than guessing based on something you read on the internet.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Julie Washington
 



Originally posted by Julie Washington
I think it would be more helpful to us when sharing your experience is if you would follow through with a new blood test after withholding the Lipo Vit C for a period of time to see what the results are, rather than guessing based on something you read on the internet.


Perhaps you should begin with re-reading my post. I monitor daily (or on some other periodic basis) many metrics concerning how my body functions.

I'm not merely "guessing" at anything.

I stopped my liposomal C supplementation, and guess what? Fasted glucose serum levels returned to normal.


This topic is starting to feel very much like the polarization I see frequently from vegans.




edit on 21-9-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Thanks for the information. There is a bit of confusion, your statement and the quote say "diagnose" which is not the same as having the condition or symptoms of.

So it would be helpful if you elaborated on the symptoms that led you to the conclusion. eating poppy seeds will lead to a diagnosis of heroin consumption, but it does not mean it is being consumed.

I'll also add, that isolating things out as "the" cause of this or that is the greatest flaw in all of science, especially in diagnosis. The C issue is most acutely seen in certain people, not all. For example blood type A's are prone to poorly processing both C and B vitamins so supplementing can be helpful, BUT, there are a million other parts to the equation. Compensation is the bodies biggest trick to survival, it is also the thing that causes those who rely on "testing" as an easy answer to all to fail at seeing things correctly.

I do agree that few know their body well enough to make any sort of informed decision on anything of this sort, and fewer are discerning enough to see the process as a part of life so most should be cautious.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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One must love the consistency with which big pharma try to dismiss everything that seems to benefits us other than their drugs. They never give up. Too much water is not good, organic food is useless, green tea is just a chinese myth, vitamin C may harm you.

But don't worry, until they'll find the perfect medicine for us, we'll eat some pizza, which is a healthy vegetable, drink some diet coke with aspartame, proved to help in loosing weight and some other things, and step in for the latest upgraded vaccine, so generously provided to everyone from age 0.

Ahh, I must have been contaminated with that antagonism-stubborness-antigovernamental disorder, I forgot the name....



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 



Originally posted by crankyoldman
...your statement and the quote say "diagnose"...


It actually says "misdiagnose", which makes the point that one who is taking high Vitamin C supplementation, where fasted serum glucose becomes abnormally high, could be mistaken for having acquired the disease.

If the supplementation ceases, so do the elevated numbers. That was true in the example case above and my own experience.


Originally posted by crankyoldman
So it would be helpful if you elaborated on the symptoms that led you to the conclusion.


I'm very big on the notion that I am the only one responsible for understanding my health. I'm not a big fan of blindly trusting physicians. But that topic is best left for another thread...

I periodically order my own lab tests for certain things and own MANY testing devices-- including a glucose testing device used for diabetics. I first purchased the device to learn how my body reacted to the ingestion of certain foods under certain conditions for the purpose of designing a diet to lose some weight, while increasing lean muscle mass. (Again, another topic for another thread.
)

A few weeks ago, it so happened I was scheduled for a routine battery of tests ordered by my physician, where I subsequently learned the results indicated my serum glucose numbers were elevated in a fasted state. I had stopped testing glucose levels on my own for some time, as the original purpose of my own testing had been satisfied.

Confused by the result, I reviewed everything I had been doing. I keep meticulous logs concerning many things I measure in this regard.

I take other supplements as well, so I began researching each of them to see if any one of them could be implicated. When I stumbled upon the article posted above. I stopped liposomal C supplementation and resumed extensive glucose testing several times a day without changing anything else. The response and corresponding reductions in fasted glucose levels over the next several days has me convinced there was a relationship here in my case.

The point is, I think it's very important to share this information with others. Your own mileage may vary.

I make no claims other than my own experience and the presentation of the material I posted above.



edit on 21-9-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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The article isn't of negative tone toward voluntary megadose therapy.

free pdf fulltext, 664 KB

pg 3 in reader or 1218 in the printed version.

care.diabetesjournals.org/content/22/7/1218.full.pdf

doi: 10.2337/diacare.22.7.1218
Diabetes Care July 1999 vol. 22 no. 7 1218-1219



(...)

The patient refused to eliminate supplementary
VitC, but reduced the
amount taken to 1,500 mg/day. At this
dosage, multiple repeat testing of his
plasma glucose showed results within the
normal range. In the very few studies that
have been done, VitC up to 2,000 mg/day
has been shown not to result in an
increase in plasma glucose (1,8), and
these dosages are suggested to be beneficial
(1). Therefore, a dosage of
1,500–2,000 mg/day would provide the
expected beneficial effects of supplementary
VitC in diabetes (1,8,9), but may not
interfere with plasma glucose determinations
and confound a diagnosis or treatment
of this disorder.

This is the first report of supplementary
VitC in humans causing an unexpected
elevation of plasma glucose levels
confounding a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes.
However, this may be more common
if further examined, particularly in
borderline cases in which patients are taking
high-dose VitC supplements. To insure
accurate interpretation of the fasting or
postprandial plasma glucose measurements,
it may be advisable for individuals
taking megadoses of VitC to be asked to
refrain from ingesting supplementary Vit C
for at least 1 week prior to testing.

(...)
edit on 21-9-2012 by wujotvowujotvowujotvo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo
 


Indeed.

And also true is how little testing seems to have been done on this subject.

Where liposomal delivery is concerned, I'm not aware of any.

So I'm reporting my personal experience, indicating it was consistent with the example we are discussing.

I'm not opposed to liposomal Vitamin C supplementation in it's entirety. But I think it prudent to keep one's eye open for unintended consequences.

In that regard, I hope I have helped somewhat on that.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by WhiteHat
 



Originally posted by WhiteHat
One must love the consistency with which big pharma try to dismiss everything that seems to benefits us...


I'm not big pharma.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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MORE:

Ok, so apparently this consequence of mega dose Vitamin C is well known.

I found this paper from the BIO-COMMUNICATIONS RESEARCH INSTITUTE on something called the The Riordan IVC Protocol 2009: Intravenous Ascorbate (IVC) as a Chemotherapeutic and Biologic Response Modifier.

It immediately begins with:




posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Here's another worthy read:

Sixteen-Year History with High Dose Intravenous Vitamin C Treatment for Various Types of Cancer and Other Diseases

It occurs to me that it makes a lot of sense to read more of the research involving the use of intravenous vitamin C and its potential consequences.

I suggest anyone using liposomal C to do the same.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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Sigh. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.Ascorbic Acid is chemically very similar to glucose.It competes with glucose for the same receptor sites to enter cells.If you have high glucose levels it makes it harder for the body to use vitamin c and inversely the higher your levels of vitamin c competing for the same receptor sights to enter cells the higher your blood glucose levels will be.Some test strips see higher AA or Ascorbate levels. Most primates do not have a metabolite that allows them to convert sugar to vitamin c. When you are insulin resistant you need to INCREASE your vitamin c intake because your cells have a greater degree of difficulty getting enough vit c.You have read some but not enough.One of the best arguments for lipo c is that it bypasses the normal metabolic pathways to enter cells.If I might suggest... "Ascorbate:The Science of Vitamin C" by S.Hickey and H. Roberts.
This book was written in 2004. The authors have since written additional material but, as all science, the books tend to add new information and a great deal of the basic work is in earlier work. Dr. Levy, a practicing cardiologist, has written an excellent book on high dosage vitamin c. Dr Linus Pauling, one of the greatest minds ever, has done a great deal to cause a reexamination of the work that has been done. As a diabetic myself,with an A1C around 5.1, who had a 4 way bypass last winter, elevated glucose levels don't mean take less vit c it means reduce my carb intake so the vit c doesn't have to compete with unnecessary glucose.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Amanda5
 


If you did your "research" properly and indeed used your intellect to understand the whys and wherefores of vitamin supplements you would rapidly come to the conclusion that you don't need them.
Far too many people take far too many supplements which give them no benefit (in fact the only thing they benefit are the companies which produce them...).
Sadly far too many people don't realise that you can actually harm yourself by taking too many vitamins.

There are certainly times in your life when some vitamin supplements can be useful but if you're relatively healthy and eat a balanced diet you really don't need them.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by pacingmachine
Sigh. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.Ascorbic Acid is chemically very similar to glucose.It competes with glucose for the same receptor sites to enter cells.If you have high glucose levels it makes it harder for the body to use vitamin c and inversely the higher your levels of vitamin c competing for the same receptor sights to enter cells the higher your blood glucose levels will be.Some test strips see higher AA or Ascorbate levels. Most primates do not have a metabolite that allows them to convert sugar to vitamin c. When you are insulin resistant you need to INCREASE your vitamin c intake because your cells have a greater degree of difficulty getting enough vit c.You have read some but not enough.One of the best arguments for lipo c is that it bypasses the normal metabolic pathways to enter cells.If I might suggest... "Ascorbate:The Science of Vitamin C" by S.Hickey and H. Roberts.
This book was written in 2004. The authors have since written additional material but, as all science, the books tend to add new information and a great deal of the basic work is in earlier work. Dr. Levy, a practicing cardiologist, has written an excellent book on high dosage vitamin c. Dr Linus Pauling, one of the greatest minds ever, has done a great deal to cause a reexamination of the work that has been done. As a diabetic myself,with an A1C around 5.1, who had a 4 way bypass last winter, elevated glucose levels don't mean take less vit c it means reduce my carb intake so the vit c doesn't have to compete with unnecessary glucose.


Sigh.
Misinformation is a very dangerous thing as well.
Although Pauling was indeed a brilliant mind his work on vitamin C has been subsequently proven to be at the very best misguided and at the worst fabricated (he conducted a large part of his vitamin C research with quite a bit of "encouragement" from a rather large pharma company...)
As for Hickey and Roberts resurrecting Pauling's misguided research and trying to fudge it even further....well, I'll let you make your own mind up on that ($$$$$$$).
The amazing Dr Levy is an interesting character too. After 15 years (or more) of his research into Vitamin C and how it reverses heart disease he still hasn't published any studies to corroborate what he claims. Anyone who has ever had any professional dealings with any cardiologist would understand why this rings alarm bells as cardiologists are serial publishers of proofs be they abstracts, white papers or full clinical studies. If they believe their methods and proof they'll publish it for their peers to read and review.
Funny how the others don't though isn't it? It's almost like they have something to hide...





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