Young Illegal Immigrants, Driver Licenses, and SSNs...

reply to post by Night Star


Oh and one more thing. Things aren't actually worse now than ever. One of the worse times we ever went through was the Great Depression. And we could have another one, but population has little to do with it.

During the Great Depression there were aprox 125 million people in the country. Less than half than there are now. However, that lower population did not stop us from having the Great Depression. It did not stop people from going hungry either. Now we have over twice the population and everyone is fat and buys five iPhones??? Something doesn't make sense here.

So, it should be obvious that simply having a low population does not automatically solve anything. In fact it makes it worse. The lower the population has been the poorer the country has been. It's economic growth and technology that builds cities and lifts people out of poverty.

If it costs us billions of dollars for illegals to be here, if our citizens are displaced in the workforce, our kids are being displaced in college classes, thousands of our citizens are being raped, maimed and killed because of illegals, it is a serious problem and one that desperately needs to be dealt with.

reply to post by Night Star


Yeah those brown people need to be dealt with harshly. They're a different color and everything. They're almost not even human. It's all the Jews fault why the economy is failing right! We need to deport them all! Every last one!
Madagascar Plan

And if that doesn't work we'll have to think of some kind of final solution for them right?

Oh wait that's right, this isn't pre-WW2. It's the Mexicans we're talking about this time. Sorry, I forgot. The situation seems so similar. Yeah they're brown, so they must be the only ones that ever rape anyone.

Yeah we need a final racist type solution! Because those ALWAYS work! We don't need think about what's best for mankind or anything. We'll just use the same old racist solution that Hitler tried that didn't work. Cause he knew what he was doing right?

Because it's definitely their fault. It's definitely not the Government's fault for printing money to fight endless wars on or anything.
Weimar Republic Hyperinflation
Quantitative Easing

That type of thinking is exactly the same type of racist thinking that led to the Holocaust. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time. Can't you see it's the EXACT SAME PATTERN repeating. The Gov screws everything up and then uses whatever race we don't happen to like that day as the scapegoat for all their problems?

We're really gonna fall for that twice!

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Night Star

 

Yeah those brown people need to be dealt with harshly. They're a different color and everything. They're almost not even human. It's all the Jews fault why the economy is failing right! We need to deport them all! Every last one!
Madagascar Plan

And if that doesn't work we'll have to think of some kind of final solution for them right?

Oh wait that's right, this isn't pre-WW2. It's the Mexicans we're talking about this time. Sorry, I forgot. The situation seems so similar. Yeah they're brown, so they must be the only ones that ever rape anyone.

Yeah we need a final racist type solution! Because those ALWAYS work! We don't need think about what's best for mankind or anything. We'll just use the same old racist solution that Hitler tried that didn't work. Cause he knew what he was doing right?

Because it's definitely their fault. It's definitely not the Government's fault for printing money to fight endless wars on or anything.
Weimar Republic Hyperinflation
Quantitative Easing

That type of thinking is exactly the same type of racist thinking that led to the Holocaust. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time. Can't you see it's the EXACT SAME PATTERN repeating. The Gov screws everything up and then uses whatever race we don't happen to like that day as the scapegoat for all their problems?

We're really gonna fall for that twice!

edit on 19-9-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

My husband is portuguese with that year round suntan. Now don't you look like a fool? What does the color of ones skin have to do with anything? Illegal isn't a race!!!!!!!!

You know damned well we have a proper way of immigrating to this country. Do you really think it is fair that some can come here without health or background checks and step to the head of the line shoving others aside?? Do you really think that some people can pick and choose which laws to follow??

This has nothing to do with racism!

reply to post by Night Star


Yeah sure it doesn't. What are you going to do to get rid of them all? Deport them! That's my point. That's the same solution Hitler tried. Deporting all the people he didn't like.

It didn't work. We already tried that! It led to a complete disaster.

EDIT: Also, when Hitler did it, it didn't really have anything to do with racism either. They were just the scapegoat. A scapegoat is a scapegoat. Illegals/Mexicans. Whatever, as long as you can rile up the people and start a big old deportation is all that matters.

By taking the jobs, prileges and freebies away, many will self deport.
Many of the illegals I have known said that they had no intention of becoming legal because they get more by being illegal. Many have said that once they save enough, they plan on returning to their own countries. One of my former co-workers has a big house on a lot of land. One has a huge farm now.

I have to tell you that I don't like to see anyone suffer in any way, no matter who they are, where they are from or what color they are. For me, I have seen too much negativity with illegal immigration. There are poor people right here in the USA that has often had to decide between food or life savings medicines. You see, people don't reliaze how many citizens are falling through the cracks. They make like a dollar or two above the poverty limit and recieve no help whatsoever.

I have a friend who lost his only son because of an illegal. In a neighboring town on different occasions, young men were run over, dragged beneath the illegals vehical and left to die. There are thousands of similar stories. All deaths that were caused by illegals with previous arrests and deportations. All avoidable had our laws been enforced.

I have seen with my own eyes, citizens who needed a job to care for their family and instead an illegal was hired.

I have seen the tears in an elderly woman's eyes as she spoke about not getting any help with her medical and complained about how illegals got help.

This isn't about racism or hatred or feeling mightier than though. This about a country that has laws that are blatantly ignored, citizens who are going without while illegals have their needs met, people coming here through the proper channels and with great respect for our laws and language while illegals cut to the head of the line.

On a disturbing note, there are now many places where you are forced to speak a foreign language in order to get hired. Un-checked illegal immigration is changing the face of America. Would you go to another country to live , refuse to speak the language of that country and expect that country to cater to you and speak your language if they want to be employed?

reply to post by Night Star


I understand all your concerns. I used to have all the same ones myself. But eventually I realized all that was based in fear. And fear based solutions only make things worse.

Like being afraid that all the illegals are gonna come over and rape everyone. That's fear based thinking. We all know that's a minority report and the vast majority of them will never rape anyone. You're more likely to be raped by a family member.

What's to be afraid of? We're human beings. They're human beings. They're not monsters from the deep. Citizens are just as violent as illegals.

Or being afraid of another language. Like no one will ever speak English again. Or like I couldn't learn another language if I really needed to. Even if I shouldn't have to, oh well, I end up knowing two languages. All it's done is make me a better person. What was I afraid of?

Or trying to mass deport them like Hitler because we're afraid they'll take all the jobs and ruin the economy. It's just a fear based solution. One we already know doesn't work, because we've already tried that.

We're afraid they're gonna take whatever jobs we have left. That they'll kill the economy. But the economy is already dead. We're just fighting over the last scraps. Many of the illegals are even going back home and the problem isn't getting any better.

But fighting over scraps isn't a real solution. That's just fear based that they'll never be more scraps. The solution is to make more scraps. But we have no faith in our ability to put our heads together and make that happen. Or even make a new system where you don't have to work every friggin day of your life just to make it by.

Sure the illegals might change the country. They might change it for the better. Interracial marriage used to be illegal too right? Why? Because it was based on fear.

We might start thinking about how to fix Mexico too so they don't have to import in the first place. The war on drugs is another fear based solution that's only created drug cartels and violence in Mexico. It hasn't solve any problems. Only created more.

Fear based thinking is exactly how we lost all our rights in this country and ended up with things like the Patriot Act, TSA, Airport cancer scanners, and the NDAA. Everyone afraid of some boogie man terrorist that was most likely on the CIA's payroll to begin with.

Sorry, but I'm just done with fear based thinking, racism, and attacking scapegoats that aren't the real problem. Fear manifests into a horrible world every time. Stay calm. Don't panic!

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Night Star

 

I understand all your concerns. I used to have all the same ones myself. But eventually I realized all that was based in fear. And fear based solutions only make things worse.

Like being afraid that all the illegals are gonna come over and rape everyone. That's fear based thinking. We all know that's a minority report and the vast majority of them will never rape anyone. You're more likely to be raped by a family member.

What's to be afraid of? We're human beings. They're human beings. They're not monsters from the deep. Citizens are just as violent as illegals.

Or being afraid of another language. Like no one will ever speak English again. Or like I couldn't learn another language if I really needed to. Even if I shouldn't have to, oh well, I end up knowing two languages. All it's done is make me a better person. What was I afraid of?

Or trying to mass deport them like Hitler because we're afraid they'll take all the jobs and ruin the economy. It's just a fear based solution. One we already know doesn't work, because we've already tried that.

We're afraid they're gonna take whatever jobs we have left. That they'll kill the economy. But the economy is already dead. We're just fighting over the last scraps. Many of the illegals are even going back home and the problem isn't getting any better.

But fighting over scraps isn't a real solution. That's just fear based that they'll never be more scraps. The solution is to make more scraps. But we have no faith in our ability to put our heads together and make that happen. Or even make a new system where you don't have to work every friggin day of your life just to make it by.

Sure the illegals might change the country. They might change it for the better. Interracial marriage used to be illegal too right? Why? Because it was based on fear.

We might start thinking about how to fix Mexico too so they don't have to import in the first place. The war on drugs is another fear based solution that's only created drug cartels and violence in Mexico. It hasn't solve any problems. Only created more.

Fear based thinking is exactly how we lost all our rights in this country and ended up with things like the Patriot Act, TSA, Airport cancer scanners, and the NDAA. Everyone afraid of some boogie man terrorist that was most likely on the CIA's payroll to begin with.

Sorry, but I'm just done with fear based thinking, racism, and attacking scapegoats that aren't the real problem. Fear manifests into a horrible world every time. Stay calm. Don't panic!

Even if only one illegal raped or killed a citizen, even if citizens do it to each other, it is wrong. The point with the illegal is that it could have been prevented. Someone's child, or sister or wife or husband, brother or whoever would still be alive today. Fighting against illegal immigration will not make anything worse. It is necessary.

Yes of course we're all human. Here in the USA we have laws for very good reason and we can't have them apply to some and not others. We cannot cater to those who came here illegally and ignore the needs of our own citizens. It is a slap in the face to all who come here through the proper channels. We cannot place the illegals on some kind of pedestal above the others and say the rules don't apply,

As for language, we have thousands of languages spoken here in the USA. All cultures came here and learned english. It is the one language that ties us all together. Where I was working, the africans, asians, indians etc. were insulted everytime a new sign was put up in spanish. The spanish speakers except for 3 of them, all knew english. Why encourage being seperate? Should we require all immigrants to now learn english and spanish if they want to live here??

Not everyone can easily pick up another language and I admire those who can, but you're talking a lot of missed job opportunities for our citizens here.

Comparing deporting illegals to anything hitler did is a stretch. We're talking enforcing our laws, not genocide.

If we're fighting over the last scraps, then the scraps should go to those who are here legally. How many times have we seen where ICE deported people from the workforce and every single one of those jobs were quickly taken by our citizens? Right now, it is imperative to take care of our own first and do what we can for others after. It makes no sense whatsoever to place a foreigner above those already living here who are struggling to survive.

If Mexico and other countries are treating their people so bad that they have to flee to another country, then it's about time they change things. Maybe if we started charging those countries for every illegal we have from their country they might change their tune.

reply to post by Night Star


You are correct in that illegal aliens cost our country billions of dollars. However, the contribute billions of dollars to our economy, too. Illegal aliens provide a source of cheap labor which benefits us all. You can buy a pound of oranges for less than $5 because of illegal aliens.

Illegal immigration is a complex phenomenon that frankly cannot be stopped. However, it can be managed so the benefits illegal aliens bring will outweigh the costs.

Last year the money sent home to Mexico was 20 Billion dollars. That was 20 Billion dollars taken from the American economy and sent out of the country. Those dollars did not buy clothing, cars, appliances, and other goods from American businesses. Mexico?s President Vincente Fox opposes every effort by the U.S. to stem the flow of his poor people into this country. No wonder. Those poor people send back into his economy billions of dollars, outpacing even the tourist dollars and second only to oil money in his economy.

www.americanchronicle.com...

ILLEGAL Immigrants Receive $Billions Yearly via IRS Loophole INCOME TAX FRAUD



Multi billion dollar fraud scheme by illegals. "We've seen 10, 12, dependants, most times neices and nephews on these tax returns."
One address was used to claim 20 kids that didn't even live there.totalling a 29,608.00 refund! The guy said if the opportunity is there, why not take advantage of it.

Illegal Immigration costs U.S. Taxpayers a whopping $113 Billion annually and the government is arguing over where to cut the budget? Seems to me that arresting the flow and expense of illegal immigration would be a great place to start. Then again we would all hear how unfair that would be from the likes of the Mexican Government to those liberals in this country that cannot comprehend that no matter what illegals may bring economically it will never offset the overwhelming costs associated with turning a blind eye to real and meaningful immigration reform.

www.chicagonow.com...

I truly fail to understand why so many Americans defend the "rights" of illegal immigrants in their country.

reply to post by Night Star

it is imperative to take care of our own first and do what we can for others after.

Screw everyone else as long as I get mine!

Sorry, fear, fear, and more fear is all I'm hearing.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Night Star

 

it is imperative to take care of our own first and do what we can for others after.

Screw everyone else as long as I get mine!

Sorry, fear, fear, and more fear is all I'm hearing.

What? You think a foreigner should come before you and your children or all the people coming through the proper channels? I don't get it.

reply to post by marg6043

Illegals do not have a health or background check. Thousands of our citizens have been raped, maimed and murdered by illegals.

Probably the scariest and most threatening aspect of illegals are the potential diseases they may bring to our country, that we may not have immunity to...this is a war within itself!

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
reply to post by Night Star

 

You are correct in that illegal aliens cost our country billions of dollars. However, the contribute billions of dollars to our economy, too. Illegal aliens provide a source of cheap labor which benefits us all. You can buy a pound of oranges for less than $5 because of illegal aliens.

Illegal immigration is a complex phenomenon that frankly cannot be stopped. However, it can be managed so the benefits illegal aliens bring will outweigh the costs.

wow, buying the propaganda at retail price i see ... i hope you get the correct change

why would any American pay $5 for oranges when we can grow our own for the whole neighborhood ?? and, since when do we need illegal immigrants for that ??

and how does any illegal benefit me or mine directly ??
they don't contribute to the economy as a whole but they do support the distilleries, tobacco industries, drug wars, prostitution, child porn, human smuggling, extortion and general debauchery in excess.
question is, how does that benefit the average American in any way ??

it certainly can be stopped, the moment the government supports such an action.
[and it appears, even before in some cases]

if it can be managed in such a way, i'd have to ask this question first ...
as we are well aware of the costs ... financial/economic, bloodshed and legal manipulations.
what benefits do they bring to society ??

what was the last invention an illegal contributed to American society ?
what was the most recent whistle-blowing any illegal has done for our society ??

Originally posted by babybunnies
I truly fail to understand why so many Americans defend the "rights" of illegal immigrants in their country.

I guess it feels so GOOD to be righteous! It's also part of the "dumbing-down" of America. However, isn't it really about getting the extra votes for Obama?

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

I decry your source materials. It is proven that what they spew out is porcine fecal matter.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Night Star

 

it is imperative to take care of our own first and do what we can for others after.

Screw everyone else as long as I get mine!

Sorry, fear, fear, and more fear is all I'm hearing.

and, after reading your posts, all i get from them is "we need new thinking" ... but, no suggestions, no answers and no examples but lots and lots of discouragement ... so, who's harboring/promoting fear ??

reply to post by Honor93


I don't have any answers. We need to work together to figure them out. I'm not a super genius dictator that knows all the answers.

But so far the only solution anyone has ever given is basically the Hitler Madagascar plan which is try to deport all the people we don't like, or try to make them self deport, or ask them to see their papers everywhere they go. The similarities really freak me out first of all and plus they don't seem to be working anyway.

I don't see any reason not to treat them as human beings instead and give them different opportunities to become citizens instead. Like if they join the military for example. Or earn a college degree. Or if their kids are already citizens maybe.

Or here's an idea. If they start a small business and create jobs! They get citizenship. Hmm, that sounds a little more constructive.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Thanks! Your little ADL approved spiel proved what I said in my previous point rather well.

Seriously, you say you want "constructive" conversation on the matter? Dropping nuggets such as hitler and the madagascar plan are not the best route.

Being undocumented and under the radar in a foreign country is "illegal". Working under the table or helping someone else in this endeavor is also "illegal", not to mention such practices are immoral. Great countries were not built on these ideals. Countries that operate like that are usually teetering on 3rd world status with a corrupt and wealthy 1% and government, we are well on the way to that ourselves.

Also, the orange analogy is silly. It pops up all the time and it implies that either a) we'd never eat without illegals or, b) we'd never afford to eat without illegals. Americans have been known to grow their own food and can it throughout all the tough times in history. Please stop insulting us as stupid, lazy, and cheap.