Film protest: Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

f your reaction to the posts in this thread are typical of how people react when anything is said about the muslim faith, its of no surprise to me that there is such a violent backlash....

You seethe anger and hate against anyone challenging you, or questioning your perscribed religious belief....

This kind of response and the vitriol you are displaying is EXACTLY why people are saying what they are saying....

And your response is better?

If you were the lone non-Muslim in a thread full of Muslims dealing with the kind of replies I've been reading (including yours) - what would your reactions be like?

look in the mirror Mr. Mask

What is wrong with my reply? Calling out someone for violent rhetoric and vitriol because they dont agree with what someone says about their religion, all the while claiming how tolerant they are?

And im not suppose to say anything? Give me a break......

Care to inform me on what was out of line in my post? How was mine full of hate or or threats?

I said the truth, If this is what people should normally expect, then its no surprise the result........

The truth isnt always nice......you can make excuses all you want.......people are responsible for their own actions......it makes NO difference what anyone else has said, in the end , the individual makes the conscious decision on their own..........

For someone to sit here and tell me how they are non violent and tolerant, and then a sentence later talk about what should happen to anyone who they dont agree with, and how it makes them crazy, says A LOT to me about them.....

Originally posted by 3danimator


What utter bullcrap. I am willing to bet that this is a lie. By the way, to non UK folk. Its definately not illegal to fly the St George flag. He's talking rubbish. My neighbour a few houses down has one 365 days a year out of his window and i know many people who have put it up at their workplace. Stop spreading lies and making things worse.

Next time before you try to silence someone who makes a fact about something
make sure you get the facts straight And stop accusing people of lying it has just made you look silly
hasn't it?. You have just embarrassed yourself trying claim me a liar. I have no ill feeling towards you
but either your ignorant or just plain stupid if you claim to be from england.That backfired on you
didn't it? just as well you didn't bet your house and car on it?..
Don't worry your shirts safe you can keep that you may just need it

P.S for your infomation i do not hate muslims too - ok sunshine. I blame the government sir/mam.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
And your response is better?

The only person spouting violent rhetoric and not posting documented facts is the poster who claims to be muslim. The other posters are calm and providing documented facts. Therefore, yes .. everyone else's responses are 'better', IMHO.

If you were the lone non-Muslim in a thread full of Muslims dealing with the kind of replies I've been reading (including yours) - what would your reactions be like?

We aren't muslim and therefore our responses would be different.

Better example ... If I were the lone American on a thread full of people who were not American .. I certainly wouldn't sit here saying that if they said anything against America then I wouldn't be able to control myself and I'd resort to violence .. and then blame the other posters for my own inability to practice self control.

If someone posted something containing FACTS against America, I would counter with FACTS showing them wrong. And if I couldn't counter with FACTS that showed them wrong .. I'd have to admit that they were correct. I'd be REASONABLE. Otherwise, my behavior would just confirm what the anti-American posters were posting.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Read his posts Mr. Mask

Read them - and try to forget about your posse

Just for a moment

What he's talking about is respect - for another people's beliefs

He wasn't threatening - or calling for violence

But he is explaining that it will happen - and it has - and it will continue

Most Muslims are going to pay the price for their extremist few

And the West will pay the same price for ours

See it or don't - that's up to you

But this thread is a pretty good example of why we are where we are right now - and if you mean to suggest that the entire problem lies with the Muslims - then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution

All any of us can expect from here on out is war

reply to post by FlyersFan


You're preaching to the wrong person Flyers

I don't agree with you - at all

And your facts sound like nothing but opinion to me

But I'm sure they're very satisfying facts to you and those who think as you do

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Ive read them all, thanks and I still stand by my statements......hes resorted to off ended threats and aggrivated behavior....

Posse? Again another veiled insult to insinuate i cannot think for myself.....Im sorry to disappoint you, but if youve ever read my post history, I dont care who is in a thread, if something strikes me, im going to tell you, whether the odds are in my favor or not...

unlike many, I have the courage of my convictions......

You say he is talking about respect, yet hes shown no such respect and nothing but contempt for anyone who has a differing opion OTHER than his own....

I find it highly hypocritical to do so....

Your right, this thread is a prime example of why we are in the position we are now, because people who feels offended that someone else has said something about their religion, flies completely off the handle.......

So yes in that aspect you are right.....

If these people cannot contain themselves because they feel "offended" then its an issue that htey will have to deal with......

People get offended every day , deal with it......

And if you CHOOSE to do what these people are doing, be prepared for the backlash......end of story....

Because one religion feels they have the right to impose THEIR view that they shouldnt be offended, by committing VIOLENCE on me, IMMEDIATELY negates their argument.......

People who cannot understand need to do some self evaluation.......

But this thread is a pretty good example of why we are where we are right now - and if you mean to suggest that the entire problem lies with the Muslims - then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution

If the problem is the muslims flying off the handle and killing people because they are "offended" then I would say YES they are the problem......

As ive stated before in other posts, this view from fundamentalist and extrmist factions of the muslim faiths have done this since WELL before the US or any other "western" culture was involved.....

They dont need an excuse......this is just the latest scapegoat they can use to carry out the normal methodologies to extinguish any other viewpoint than their own.......

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

If these people cannot contain themselves because they feel "offended" then its an issue that htey will have to deal with...... People get offended every day , deal with it......

These people?

How well contained are you - after being offended by his posts?

And mine? :-)

And if you CHOOSE to do what these people are doing, be prepared for the backlash......end of story....

Was that a threat Mr. Mask?

:-)

lovely

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

If these people cannot contain themselves because they feel "offended" then its an issue that htey will have to deal with...... People get offended every day , deal with it......

These people?

How well contained are you - after being offended by his posts

And mine? :-)

And if you CHOOSE to do what these people are doing, be prepared for the backlash......end of story....

Was that a threat Mr. Mask?

:-)

lovely

Im very well contained thank you you can keep trying to attack me personally all you wish, it makes no difference to me, and my comments are just as valid......

Offended? No, in disbelief of the justification? absolutely....

Threat? No its inevitable.........you have a certain group of people repeatedly committing murders, burning down embassies, taking people hostages, and killing foreign diplomats.........then its not hard to see what will happen....

You can chose to be intellectually dishonest and obtuse, or you can continue to try and turn the subject into something its not....

reply to post by Zatox


Zatox, chill.

As an Episcopalian, I see countless threads insulting the Holy See, the Roman Catholic Church, my faith in general on a daily basis.
*meh*

Faith is a singular, individual thing. Some (many) don't subscribe. But that's their choice.

There are those on this site that wuld probably laugh at me for believing the way that I do.

Yet. . .

Those same people would also lay down their LIVES so that I could remain free to believe the way I do.

Not everyone will respect your faith, but everyone respects your RIGHT to have a different faith.

All we ask is for the same respect for OUR rights to believe differently than you.

Originally posted by 3danimator


What utter bullcrap. I am willing to bet that this is a lie. By the way, to non UK folk. Its definately not illegal to fly the St George flag. He's talking rubbish. My neighbour a few houses down has one 365 days a year out of his window and i know many people who have put it up at their workplace. Stop spreading lies and making
things worse.

I repeat this is no way intended to insult muslims, but just how draconian our
country hasbecome.I have a few muslim freinds 3danimator who agrees that i others and him are
fed up with, read on.Muslims i know brought up in the country or not have said the same thing that
it is pathetic apart from the extremists, This one rule for one and one rule for another sir/mam..

Recently, Ben Smith, an English football fan, decided to show his team support by displaying the flag of England - the red St. George's Cross - on his car. Mr. Smith was pulled over by police on a routine traffic stop but the gist of the stop was far from "routine" --- or is it? Ben was stunned to be told by the policeman that his Flag of England was racist and "offensive to immigrants" and that he would be fined $60 if he refused to remove it from view. "Mr Smith, of Melksham, Wiltshire, said: “I honestly could not believe what the police officer was saying. “He wasn’t rude about it at all. He was just very matter-of-fact about the flag being racist and offensive to immigrants.” Mr Smith, an avid England football fan, said he used the flag to cover up a new set of speakers, which he wanted to hide from would-be thieves He said: “I just thought he was joking and started to laugh, but he looked at me very seriously and said that I would have to pay a £30 on-the-spot fine if I refused. “It was really strange and I drove home quite shocked.”

Why cant we all just get on if any think im racist ill post up a muslims response to the prison
country we are in.. backing up the english people claiming they love the england flag and the football
team and don't want this divide..but sadly there are alot who dissagree.Again i blame the government
they are clearly creating a divide for some reason..You can wear the veil im not bothered but if i see
anyone beat a woman in this countrys rules against violence towards women i will be most upset
black/white/yellow/muslim. peace to all and pay no attention to the poster who is obviously upset
that i made quite a few points regarding the governments treatment of people.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Threat? No its inevitable.........you have a certain group of people repeatedly committing murders, burning down embassies, taking people hostages, and killing foreign diplomats.........then its not hard to see what will happen....

Which is pretty much what he said - but from his perspective

I wonder that you can't see how the Muslim world might feel it's under attack - is this part seriously not obvious to you? Do you honestly believe that this is just about religion?

funny that :-)

You can chose to be intellectually dishonest and obtuse, or you can continue to try and turn the subject into something its not....

Right back atcha Mr. Mask

And you know - this wasn't a personal attack...it was neither personal - or an attack. We're just talking - right?

Interesting that you took it that way

:-)

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Zatox

 

Zatox, chill.

As an Episcopalian, I see countless threads insulting the Holy See, the Roman Catholic Church, my faith in general on a daily basis.
*meh*

Faith is a singular, individual thing. Some (many) don't subscribe. But that's their choice.

There are those on this site that wuld probably laugh at me for believing the way that I do.

Yet. . .

Those same people would also lay down their LIVES so that I could remain free to believe the way I do.

Not everyone will respect your faith, but everyone respects your RIGHT to have a different faith.

All we ask is for the same respect for OUR rights to believe differently than you.

thank you Beezer - for one of the few rational and thoughtful replies in this thread

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Which is pretty much what he said - but from his perspective I wonder that you can't see how the Muslim world might feel it's under attack - is this part seriously not obvious to you? Do you honestly believe that this is just about religion? funny that :-)

Because its not the same, taking out violent people because they are being violent , is not anywhere in the NEIGHBORHOOD as a group of people killing innocent people because they are "offended" by what someone said, or because of a film....or because they feel like they were insulted....

Just because they might "feel" like they are under attack or insulted, doesnt give them the right to drag out and kill people. Im honestly dumbstruck at the justification you are trying to issue here...

Again, this is nothing new, this has been happening for over a thousand years with the hardlined muslims, the only thing that changes is what "variable" they will use as an excuse for the event.....

If you think that is the same thing, then it seems that this whole debate is futile.....

As far as our conversation, you are just as entitled to your opinion and viewpoint as I am.......The difference is, if you are offended or I am offended by what one another has said , we arent going to wish harm on the other person......and thats ultimately what we are dealing with here....

Since when did one film, poorly made..make all in the Western world responsible?

I guess the same statement could be made about accusing the Middle East, North Africa and S.E. Asia as harboring terrorists....and indiscriminately droppping bombs because of a staged event...not cordinated by the average citizen of the region....who is being victimized and blown to bits.

Should they be outraged?..YES....over this movie?...NO

But they do fall into black and white thinking no different then Neocons...

At some point people on all sides need to realize...none of this is worth it, and nobody wins..

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
What he's talking about is respect - for another people's beliefs

No he wasn't. He was saying ... (paraphrase) don't say anything about Islam or we'll whack ya'.
He doesn't respect the rights of non-muslims to discuss the FACTS and the TRUTH.
And avoiding truth so as not to upset a muslim isn't 'being respectful' .. it's just being pathetic.

He wasn't threatening - or calling for violence

Sure he was. He was threatening. He wasn't 'calling' for it. But he definately was threatening.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
And your facts sound like nothing but opinion to me

I posted links to documented facts ...
- it's not my 'opinion' that Muhammad had sex with children. It's a documented fact.
- it's not my 'opinion' that Muhammad was a caravan raider. It's documented fact.
- it's not my 'opinion' that Muhammad was a murderer. It's a documented fact.
- it's not my 'opinion' that the Qu'ran is historically and scientifically in error. It's documented fact.
And I have provided links to documentation. Would you like some more?

Originally posted by kat2684
Since when did one film, poorly made..make all in the Western world responsible?

I guess the same statement could be made about accusing the Middle East, North Africa and S.E. Asia as harboring terrorists....and indiscriminately droppping bombs because of a staged event...not cordinated by the average citizen of the region....who is being victimized and blown to bits.

Should they be outraged?..YES....over this movie?...NO

But they do fall into black and white thinking no different then Neocons...

At some point people on all sides need to realize...none of this is worth it, and nobody wins..

Good speech kat2684 they shouldn't be offended by the movie "chicken bones and stones"
AKA sticks and stones.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I wonder that you can't see how the Muslim world might feel it's under attack -

Telling the truth isn't 'attacking' .. it's just telling the truth.
This is 2012 AD. Not 1000 AD.

I find it interesting that you are basically accusing the calm people here, who haven't threatened anyone, of 'attacking' and yet you ignore the one person who actually was not calm and who threatened violence if the rest of us continued to tell the truth about Muhammad. That seems really odd to me.

Islamic leaders worldwide called for an end to the freedom of speech. Dr. Ahmed el-Tayyeb, the grand imam of the most prestigious and influential institution in Sunni Islam, Al-Azhar in Cairo, on Saturday asked the secretary general of the United Nations to pass a UN resolution that would “prohibit insulting symbols and sanctities of Islam by some fools and misguided, who do not know the value of social peace among peoples and agitate seditions among them.” Tayyeb called for “criminalizing insulting symbols of Islam and other religions” and “punishing those who committed such heinous acts and insulted Prophet Muhammad of Islam,” although he didn’t specify what punishments he had in mind.

Right i have something to say

1 Thou shalt abide by the countrys rules or lump it.
2 When in england/USA the laws apply to everyone and no foriegn power is exempt period.
3 No foreign power should think he/she has the right to change it.
4 This is a democracy and it will stay that way there shall be no underage sex with children
5 No beating of women to be made legal period.
6 That goes for every race/ creed/ colour.

Have fun/ go in peace/ make babies/ enjoy life ...

And if i were over America now id take miss kat2684 out for a few drinks too.

reply to post by reppie


At least we are survivors, we don't get beheaded or beaten, or stone to death or abused by our masters the husbands, we get to tell our stories and make the best of our experiences, we will never allow to become shadows of tyranny..