Film protest: Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

reply to post by Crakeur


You are right, I love history and is one of my greatest subject.

It was common to have their young women married at a young age.

And this was practiced all over not just in certain regions.

Now is condem by nations that have laws prohibiting this practice but still in practiced in the middle east.

And for latest UK report is been done behind close doors in areas that have muslim populations.

Originally posted by Zatox
I never stated that is it a good idea to kill people just because us muslims don't like something.

Actually you do .. further on in this very post of yours ...

We don't like violence or killing. But it does state in our book, if someone is insulting our religion especially our prophet, take action, if warnings are ignored, take severe action, which then results in a declared holy war.

1 - You like being Muslim.
2 - You .. of your own free will .. engage in threats and violence when confronted with the truth about Islam.
3 - Therefore you must like it. If you didn't like it .. you'd get out of it.

We are peaceful but once non Muslims start to push us further off the edge, they are just asking for even a greater war to happen, and it won't end nice.

Severe contradiction and threat on your part. You can't be 'peaceful' but then 'go off the edge' if someone tells the truth about Muhammad being a thief and a murderer.

I ask you, is it worth it? All this religious hate, is it really worth it? .

That is something you need to ask YOURSELF and the other Muslims who are 'going off the edge' (to quote you) simply because someone dared to tell the truth about Muhammad .. a truth that you dont' want to face.

Seriously .. if hearing the truth about Muhammad 'pushes you off the edge', then it's you who needs to take a long hard look at what is going on ... it's not the film maker. The film maker may be a YUTZ, but anyone who engages in, or threatens, violence over the film is an even bigger YUTZ. IMHO

reply to post by Zatox


I understand what you're saying, even though I am not a Muslim myself. I sympathize ... since, as you say, non-Muslims are not treating the Muslims with respect. And this goes for westerners, mostly, but also others like Hindus, Buddhists etc.

"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith..." --in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who jumped in to correct Obama by saying "your Christian faith," which Obama quickly clarified (Watch video clip)

reply to post by Crakeur

reply to post by FlyersFan

I'm glad that you have the right to do so. If the internet were ruled by fundamentalist muslims and/or sharia law .. you wouldn't have a right to your opinion. So enjoy having that right while you can. The previous (muslim) poster admits that he would take away your right to express your opinion and apologists back him up. So cherish that right .. while you can.

What do you mean by 'while you can'?

Even while we all agree that what's happening right now is alarming and wrong - it's also obvious that there is a movement in the west dedicated to turning up the heat on this entire situation

Fear mongering - and it's not subtle. That entire statement you just made is something of a rallying cry...a call to arms

So, noble as the entire defense of freedom of speech might be - it's being sullied by these obvious attempts to demonize an entire people and start up the drums of war. At a certain point even reasonable people will begin to say we have no choice - but we would have had a choice if situations like these didn't keep 'erupting'

Tell me FlyersFan - do you honestly believe the entire Muslim world is represented by these attacks? The people behind them are doing as much damage to the credibility and respectability of the rest of Islam as the instigators out of the West are doing for the West. It's going to be all the moderates who pay the price

Doesn't real freedom come with a need for responsibility and restraint? Or are our greatest gifts - liberty and justice for all - just words? Are those concepts being used as an excuse for a tit-for-tat, nyah-nyah-nyah response to the entire world around us? Are we really saying that we will do what we want wherever we want, however we want - damn the consequences?

You do make a distinction when you use the word Fundamentalist - so I'm guessing you don't see all Muslims as being the same. And that's reasonable

I'm sure you'll see this as something of a criticism or an attack - but it's neither. It's just that what you just said is what so many reasonable people say - and then things get stepped up just a little more

The stability of the world is being threatened not just by Fundamentalist Islam - but by Fundamentalism - period

And all of us will pay the price of a war with no end in sight

If we were to seriously discuss the problems we're facing and be honest about the whole thing we'd understand that this is not going to get better as long as we pretend that this is just a 1st amendment issue and nothing more

There are people on both sides that want this to happen - and they know what they're doing

"Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step over the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! -- All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a Thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
What do you mean by 'while you can'?

Just what I said. Enjoy your freedom of speech .. and freedom of opinion .. while you can.
It is obvious that it is being taken away .. bit by bit .. all over the world. The NWO is seeing to it.
And it simply doesn't exist .. not really .. in many places like China and Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Fear mongering - and it's not subtle. That entire statement you just made is something of a rallying cry...a call to arms

Take it any way you want. I stand by what I said. Enjoy your freedom of speech and freedom of opinion. It isn't available to everyone on the planet. And it's being erroded by TPTB. And if the previous Muslim poster had his way, you wouldn't have freedom of speech. HE SAID SO.

Tell me FlyersFan - do you honestly believe the entire Muslim world is represented by these attacks?

I am having a discussion with one certain outspoken muslim on this thread who has said he doesn't like violence but then turns around and threatens violence. That's it. I am using HIS OWN WORDS that he described Islam to be .. to show him that .. according to him .. Islam is not a 'religion of peace'. We'll see if he understands his own contradictions or not.

Doesn't real freedom come with a need for responsibility and restraint? Or are our greatest gifts - liberty and justice for all - just words?

Where exactly did the filmaker step on the liberty of those who worship within Islam? No where.
Where exactly did the filmaker do injustice to anyone? No where.
His movie was cheezy and poorly done .. but it was not 'injust'.

How about justice for the filmaker who was legally expressing his opinion?

Restraint on the part of the filmaker is subjective. Why should he restrain himself? He didn't hurt anyone and he has a right to his opinion. Restraint on the part of those muslims who are using this movie as an excuse to kill and destroy property ... THAT is where the restraint should be. That kind of behavior is not compatible with a society that is trying to act civilized in the year 2012.

If the muslims who are rioting would have just IGNORED the stupid movie, it would have gone away and no one would have seen it and no one would care. The fact that they got all worked up and turned animalistic .. THAT is the reason the film has been seen by so many people. It's their own fault. Almost no one heard of the stupid film until the idiots on the other side of the planet killed people because of it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


For what I have learned about Islam, Islam law, sharia and the Taliban along with the Radical fundamentalist movement, (goes both way) Christian and Islam, I have to say, Islam is a law and as a law it have not room for anything "moderate" in it, even if many Muslims people fleet their countries to avoid oppression, those are ostracized from the religion and even persecuted.

The only peace within Islam is when the unbelievers and infidels submit to Islam, even then they are no trusted and will always be outsiders.

Islam will never be able to thrive in the US due to our constitutional laws that rules the nation.

And of peace Islam is not.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thank you Flyers - I appreciate your taking the time to reply

This is about Freedom of Speech - for Americans and other free people of the West

Like it or not - the violence that's happening around the world right now is also freedom of speech - without restraint

It's a fuzzy line - for some

People with inflexible ideas and buttons made for pushing are at other people's mercy - even while they decide that right is on their side

As I said - we can argue in defense of our freedoms all we want. We can (and probably will) actively defend our freedoms as well. And so it goes...

Where will it end I wonder?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
Like it or not - the violence that's happening around the world right now is also freedom of speech - without restraint

I'm not sure about these riots being a 'freedom of speech' thing in muslim nations. They really don't have it. Their religion forces them to take part (according to the previous outspoken muslim poster). So is that really 'freedom' for them .. or are they slaves to their religion and forced to do it?? (going on what the previous muslim poster said) He claims he doesn't like violence but then turns around and says his religion calls for it. So either he likes the violence or he's a slave to his religion and the riots aren't really 'free speech' but are more like slaves doing their masters bidding ...

Where will it end I wonder?

In total melt down and destruction of the civilized world.
That would be my guess. It's just a matter of time ...

reply to post by FlyersFan

In total melt down and destruction of the civilized world. That would be my guess. It's just a matter of time ...

Well, at least we'll go down knowing we were right. I'm sure they'll feel the same way

Good for us

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Film protest: Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

I urge the Egyptian PM to educate himself - with the truth about the shady side of Islam and about Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Opinion and about the fact that this is the year 2012. I urge the Egyptian PM to try to control the insanity in Egypt .. perhaps by educating himself and the people there about how to act civilized in a very crowded world.

So making fun of another religions prophet is an act of a civilized person? If a person were civilized he would respect another persons religion because that is the civilized and human thing to do.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Film protest: Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

I urge the Egyptian PM to educate himself - with the truth about the shady side of Islam and about Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Opinion and about the fact that this is the year 2012. I urge the Egyptian PM to try to control the insanity in Egypt .. perhaps by educating himself and the people there about how to act civilized in a very crowded world.

So making fun of another religions prophet is an act of a civilized person? If a person were civilized he would respect another persons religion because that is the civilized and human thing to do.

Hmmmm.

Actually the Egyptian Leader has stated that his new Capital, should be Jerusalem, By Sword or Martyrdom. How would he do that, with civility?



How is this not inciting a people of faith?

Leaders should not be hypocritical. They are elected by people, for one reason. To lead. Regardless of the religion. Regardless of personal faith.

reply to post by doobydoll

I also saw a couple of them stealing and eating food from the chiller during daylight hours of Ramadan, and when I commented on this they put their finger to their lips and said 'Sssh', before walking away with a grin.

I added this comment to my last post because the point I was trying to make is, they take their religion seriously and follow it to the letter only when it suits them, while all the time giving the impression they are super-religious.
They will murder and maim other people for insulting the prophet or Allah, but they won't go hungry for them during Ramadan.

I'm not saying all muslims are like this during Ramadan, just the ones I know and worked with.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Bluesma
Being rude and crass and claiming "Hey, I'm just telling the truth! " is just a cop out.

Telling the truth is telling the truth. Claiming that it shouldn't be told because you disagree with it or because you subjectively think it's 'rude or crass' .. THAT is a cop out.

No,I never said the truth shouldn't be said. I said HOW you say it is relevant.
Not acknowledging the feelings of others and our effect upon them is a lawyers game of words, not honest interaction between humans.

I don't care about the movie. And furthermore .. it doesn't matter if the movie is 'in good taste, tactful, respectful or realistically portraying truth'. All that is SUBJECTIVE and IRRELEVANT.

Guess what? Muslims are subjects, not objects, so their feelings are relevant.

The movie is allowed by law .. it's a person expressing his opinion ... and he has a right to do so. The upset muslims on the other side of the planet have a right not to go on the internet and look at the film. It's just that simple..

They also have the right to express that they don't like it on a website, as this person was doing.
You claim he/she made "threats"..... but I can't find them.

I have taken part in discussions on these topics with muslims, in person and online, and they are perfectly able to do so intelligently if dealt with intelligently.
The question of his young wife is more complex than you make it seem, and nothing like what that movie portrayed. There is the context of culture and tradition, and the belief that he did not have sex with her until she was older (as is the tradition).

You can debate and discuss that with most muslims. But if you do it honestly, in a direct but serious way.
This is about HOW they feel sensitive subjects were treated.

Originally posted by buster2010
So making fun of another religions prophet is an act of a civilized person? If a person were civilized he would respect another persons religion because that is the civilized and human thing to do.

Telling the truth ... having freedom of speech and freedom of opinion .... respecting freedom of speech and freedom of opinion ... THESE are civilized things to do. NOT run crazy and kill people simply because a person on the other side of the planet dared to tell the truth about the founder of your religion.

The film maker was not acting uncivilized. Not even close.

Originally posted by Bluesma
Guess what? Muslims are subjects, not objects, so their feelings are relevant.

As you can see by the previous posts here .. there is no 'sensitive' way to state the truth about Muhammed. The truth is the truth. The man was a thief. He was a murderer. He had sex with children. that's the truth of it. And there is no good reason to have to pussy-foot around those facts.

The truth hurts. Learn from it. Grow from it. Free yourself from the bonds of a cult with it.

There is no reason to avoid truth simply because telling that truth is going to piss off people who refuse to control themselves. That is completely on the rioters. Not the film maker.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Bluesma
Guess what? Muslims are subjects, not objects, so their feelings are relevant.

As you can see by the previous posts here .. there is no 'sensitive' way to state the truth about Muhammed. The truth is the truth. The man was a thief. He was a murderer. He had sex with children. that's the truth of it. And there is no good reason to have to pussy-foot around those facts.

The truth hurts. Learn from it. Grow from it. Free yourself from the bonds of a cult with it.

There is no reason to avoid truth simply because telling that truth is going to piss off people who refuse to control themselves. That is completely on the rioters. Not the film maker.

Speaking truth truthfully is a discipline of heart and mind, and learning to avoid the temptation of falling into exaggerations and simplistic emotional button pushers. If you speak the truth, you don't need to do that, it will stand on it's own.

Nobody said the subject and the opinion should not be said, you can drop that argument it is irrelevant.
Say it seriously, be precise, be accurate, accept beforehand that the listener may not like it, and might be pissed, and ready to listen if that happens, and the result is totally different.

Making a crude joke instead is what children do, when they haven't learned to communicate effectively yet.

Since we're on the topic of freedom of speech, just thought I'd remind folks. . . .

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

en.wikipedia.org...

I don't see anywhere where it says we have to be respectful of ANYTHING.

This Amendment allows anyone to express their opinion.

I just wish foreign nations and religions would respect OUR laws we have here.

The leaders of Muslim countries do not control their people. The Clerics/religious leaders control the people. I saw a reporter last night in Cairo. He said the people were calm until they exited the Mosques. They were enraged when the left their Mosques and rioted. Then they would calm down,enter the Mosque and enrage again. They are being used.