Originally posted by twitchy
Ignorant claims? Oh you must mean the intelligence that indicated that they were a military threat to the western world. LOL Do you mean the proven to
faked documents uranium documents from Nigeria? Or do you mean the Convoys or mobile bioweapons platforms? Every bit of intelligence we had prior to
the Invasion of Iraq pointed to not only no credible links between Iraq and Alqeada, but to little or no offensive capability or stock piles, and
every scrap of it was mandated, not assesed, mandated by the Bush Administration.
You said "every other agency that investigated this connection have said that there were links between Iraq/Saddam and Al qaeda..."
This is a ridiculous statement and represents a very narrow awareness of world events. The only agencies that have demonstrated any connection
betqween Iraq and Alqaeda were once again, mandated by the Bush and Blair administrations.
............are you actually suggesting that Iraq was a threat to us? If we had stayed the hell out of eastern politics instead of manipulating and
pissing these peopel off, we wouldn't have to worry about being targets of international terrorism would we. You are in serious need of some
understanding of the forces that govern our foriegn policies. ........
Twitchy....the whole fricken world was saying Saddam had wmd, the only difference is that Russia, China, France, Germany and some others didn't want
anyone to attack Iraq, because then they would lose any of their business with Saddam.
And again....you are saying if we weren't involved in the war in Iraq we wouldn't be victims of international terrorism.....is that why the wtc was
attacked first in 1993? is that why the USS Cole was attacked also during Clinton's administration? Is that why the US was attacked several times
during Clinton's administration? not only the ones I mention above?.......*shakes head*
Yeah, you want to do what Clinton did huh? just ignore terrorism, think it will go away or that it will become a "nuisance" like Kerry is saying
Lets see if Bush was the only one to say Saddam had wmd and something must be done about it.... i have posted this info time and time again...have
you not read any of these reports? Not only posted by me but other members as well?
Why We Went to War
From the October 20, 2003 issue: The case for the war in Iraq, with testimony from Bill Clinton.
by Robert Kagan & William Kristol
10/20/2003, Volume 009, Issue 06
"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf
War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four
days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was
prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the
penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."
--Bill Clinton, July 22, 2003
The above link was given originally by Seekerof in the following link.
In the 1999 UNSCOM report, it is stated that there were several tons of unnacounted for wmd in Iraq, and UNSCOM was an agency of the UN, as is
UNMOVIC.... So if anyone duped the world and coalition it was the UN as most nations in the world used intelligence from this agency....
May 2, 2002
David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of unaccounted for stocks of Iraqi
precursor chemicals, chemical agent and special munitions, based on the findings of the UN Special Commission.
Mr. Straw: In answer to questions on 12 March 2002, Official Report, columns 743–45, I said that weapons inspectors were unable to account for 4,000
tonnes of so-called precursor chemicals used in the production of weapons; 610 tonnes of precursor chemicals used in the production of nerve gas; and
31,000 chemical weapons munitions.
This information was the best available at the time, and was based on Iraqi declarations to UNSCOM inspectors between 1991–98 and data contained in an
UNSCOM report published in 1999.
The following is Australia intelligence on WMD in Iraq.
The real scandal contained in the long-awaited report of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) that was published last week concerns the fecklessness of
the United Nations, not to mention the treacherous conduct of some of its security council members, in its dealings with Saddam's regime between the
end of the 1991 Gulf war and last year's Operation Iraqi Freedom.
In the diplomatic build-up to last year's war to remove Saddam Hussein from power, the two most vociferous opponents of military action were Russia
and France. Even though Presidents Putin and Chirac reluctantly signed up to UN Security Council resolution 1441 in November 2002 - which threatened
Saddam with "serious consequences" if he did not fully comply - they were at the forefront of the international campaign to block military
Let me quote this part separately.....
At the time it was felt that their main motivation was to protect their lucrative trade ties with Baghdad. In late 2002, Saddam
still owed the Russians some $10 billion, mainly for illegal arms deals. France came next in the trade rankings.
I have posted in the past also the interviews that were done to "other" Russian high ranking military defectors who told that these illegal trades
were true, among other things, and the deals went until 2002 (i stated wrongly 2003 in my previous post)
Now as i was looking for more information about this topic I found out the following...directly from the UN website...
The Commission (UNMOVIC) is financed from a small portion of the monies raised from the export of oil from Iraq (the “oil-for-food”
programme). Unlike its predecessor, UNSCOM, the staff of UNMOVIC are employees of the United Nations.
So the UNMOVIC commission was financed from a "small portion of the monies raised from the oil-for-food programme.....which we know that many nations
were corrupt and were making illegal deals with Iraq...
Humm...i did not see this before but it is very interesting.....so the UNMOVIC commission which althou it did state that they found banned rockets and
other banned materials that were in possesion of Iraq before the war...it stated that they had not found any wmd stockpiles.... humm...i am smelling
more corruption here....
The UNSCOM commission was not financed by the "oil-for-food" programmed...and it did state there were unnaccaunted wmd in Iraq...
This is getting interesting.....let's continue.
Here is a link to other links on the Butler report.
Yeah, keep believing Bush... It's a good thing Enron went down before the election or Bushie boy would be campaigning from a Federal
The world believed the UN reports which stated in 1999 that Iraq did have unnacounted for wmd....and every intelligence agency wastalking about
Iraq's wmd...I have posted that the Canadians were saying this, so was France and Germany.
That's right, a link. Do you understand the difference between a link, and "axis of evil"? The 9-11 comission makes reference to two meetings
between SUSPECTED alqeda agents and the Iraqi Government Officials. Two meetings is a far cry from collusion or even support.
*shakes head*.....There are more than just two meetings between Al Qaeda agents and Iraqi governemnt officials....you are only reading the excerpts
and not looking into the links I am giving....and the information they give...
Saddam was supporting terrorism, not only Al Qaeda but others as well...
Saddam bankrolled Palestinian terrorists
• Documents show Saddam funded Palestinian terrorist group
• Syrian business front funded terrorists through UN oil-for-food programme
• 1991 tape reveals Saddam wanted to use biological weapons against Israel
Story in full SADDAM Hussein’s links to terrorism have been proven by documents showing he helped to fund the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Wow, terrorists camps, in the middle east no less. Do you have any idea how many nations have 'terrorist' training camps? What you and alot of other
misinformed folks seem to fail to grasp, is that these terrorists camps are military training for many opposing Factions, from the Sheite to the
Sunni. What you call a terrorist camp they call militia.
A terrorist training camp is a nation bombed into the third world and then exploited by foriegn interests and occupied by a hostile military, that's
your training camps dude.
And if BinLaden was our objective, then why would Bush himself say March 13, 2002 "I don't know where BinLaden is, I have no Idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority". Wake up, neither Afghanistan or Iraq had any links to 9-11. Infact, Israel and
particularly Saudi Arabia were implicated by subsequent investigations as I remeber...
Oh i see...so because they call it "militia camps" they are not terrorists....
BTW...radical Islamist/Islamic extremists want a caliphate on the world with Osama Bin Laden at the head or some other Islamic extremist....
Do you know that Osama wants to have Andalusia back, and France and Italy?....do you know why? Do you know what one of the goals of radical Islamist
is? to have the world dominated under Islam....
Sure we are the reason why they are extremists....is that why Radical Islamists tried to conquer the world under the sword in the Middle Ages?
This is the same thing radicals want now...they want those days back.
Please do post evidence that Israel was involved in 9/11.....
Reality check here man, your argument is the one that lacks any evidence what so ever. You post some credible evidence asserting a link between
alqeada and Iraq, or Iraqi stock piles of nukes and anthrax, the GOP would love to hear from you cause they have been looking themselves... You got
some proof worthy of a preemptive invasion and occupation of TWO soverign nationsm then hell your doing ebtter than the CIA and the entire western
world for that matter. Cut off the tv, switch to a non-flouride toothpaste, and skip a flu shot or two and you might catch something other than
what's handed to you by a coporate consoidated media. Follow the money, and read some 80's articles and you will hopefully have a better
understanding of whats going on because your obviously not learning much from these boards if you still contest WMD's and Alqeada
There is evidence of Iraq being involved with Al Qaeda....but no evidence that Iraq knew and was involved in helping Al Qaeda attack the US
You see...you can have ties with a group, but still not being involved in some of the group's actions.......which you don't seem to
BTW...the UN had to vote on resolution 1441 and it was unilaterally agreed by most of the UN nations....
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a resolution by the UN Security Council, passed unanimously on November 8, 2002, offering Iraq
"a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (resolution 660,
resolution 661, resolution 678, resolution 686, resolution 687, resolution 688, resolution 707, resolution 715, resolution 986, and resolution 1284),
notably to provide "an accurate full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by Resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to
develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles". Resolution 1441 threatens "serious consequences" if these are not met. It reasserted
demands that UN weapons inspectors should have "immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access" to sites of their choosing, in order to ascertain
The full text is available on WikiSource (sources.wikipedia.org...).
Although Iraq was given until November 15 to accept the resolution, they agreed on November 13. Weapons inspectors, absent from Iraq since December
1998, returned later that month, led by Hans Blix of UNMOVIC and Mohamed ElBaradei of the IAEA.
In early December, 2002, Iraq filed a 12,000-page weapons declaration with the UN in order to meet requirements for this resolution. The UN and the
US said that this failed to account for all of Iraq's chemical and biological agents.
Like I said man, read your history, we have sold both Iran and Iraq weapons. We have supplied both nations with logistic support, sattellite and other
intelligence. You forget who put Saddam in power. BinLaden and Carlyle, BinLaden and Bush, Osama Himself was a CIA asset.
Do take your own advice, like i told you before....first, i do know that we helped Saddam fight against Iran....but we stopped after he invaded Kuwait
and realized he was a threat for others in the region including the UN and US interests.....and many times have allies become enemies throughout
history...and then become friends to attack or defend against a common enemy and become enemies once more.....so what?.....
And yes we can do S*it, but where I'm from we believe in going after those who are actually, well you know, like uh... RESPONSIBLE for the
attack. Even your own media is calling it 'pre-emptive' to counter the lack of credible reasoning behind the invasions. That is what they are
selling and your buying it.
humm....so Al Qaeda didn't do it?.....so you don't think other Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations would have tried to attack us once more?
(Which I am sure they are going to keep trying...)
According to you, if i understand what you are saying, you would have just killed the small group withint Al Qaeda that coordinated the 9/11
attacks...and would have left the rest of Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations which have pretty much the same goal as AQ?.... sure...and you
think we wouldn't have been attacked again of course.....
Just about every arabic speaking nation in the modern world has at some point crossed paths with Alqeada. We have aided many such groups ourselves.
You live under the paranoid illusion that all arabs are terrorist supporting monsters that are out to destroy your baseball and apple pie, an illusion
perpetuated by manipulative foriegn policy and endless propaganda. They are people, nations, cultures, the only difference between us and them is
military strength, wealth and dependence on foriegn resources. I'm not condoning terrorism, but like all things terrorism is causal, but when you
create a monster, you have to feed it. Lybia? LOL here again you need to read your history, we were duped into attacking Lybia by intercepting decoyed
communications courtesy of Israeli Intel.
I do not live under any paranoid illusions...thank you very much..i never said all Arabs or all Muslims are terrorists...do not put words in my mouth
I have never said.... but yes there are radicals that want to destroy our way of life or they want the world to be dominated by Islam and
Perhaps you are too blind yourself watching baseball and eating apple-pies....things i haven't done in a very long time..... I am
not that much of a fan of apple pies or baseball....anyways.....
BinLaden runs around with an American made anti-tank rifle that was presented to him personally as a gift from us. You seem to think that Arms dealers
are strictly shady terrorism supporting evil folk. The U.S. is hands down the largest exporter of arms in the world.
Wow, so one weapon which he uses to fight the whole world? Was he an asset of ours before he decided to turn against us? yes....he did turn against
us as i proved several times already posting an interview that was done with him in the 1990s....he said that while we were using him to attack the
Russians...he and his people were also thinking on how to attack us in the future....
Does the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sounds familiar to you?.....no?
You are telling me to read on history...I guess you better take your own advice as there have been many allies of ours in the past who turned against
us.....for many reasons.... Osama was already thinking in the 80s....when we were helping him and others like him against the Russians
ways to attack US.....
Wow you mean despite strict trade sanctions imposed and enforced by a multinational coalition after the first gulf war, "Russia among other
countries" openly defied the world and sold billions worth of materials and weapons? I must have missed that one in the news. Billions of dollars in
weapons, yet they had no organized military offensive or defensive capability? Get real. Iraq was no threat, to assert that there was is ridiculous.
Camels, rifles, improvised esplosives... real world threatening stuff there. They weren't even allowed to buy alot of medical equipment and
industrially critical chemicals, and your trying to say the world sat back and let russia defy openly defy UN sanctions that they voted for?
Look above.......and weep....or cry, or laugh, or whatever you want, but yes, despite sanctions Russia, and France, among others, did benefit from the
"oil-for-food" program and used it to make illegal trades, including weapons...
BTW, do you know that Iraq did fire at least 9 missiles which were banned
by the UN on the coalition in Kuwait? no?.......
BTW...for you, and some other members, to see one of the many things that our troops, and rest of coalition have found buried in Iraq, yet they had
been in the area for a long time and never noticed before....proving how hard it is to find anything buried in Iraq....
To see more pictures of the above as it was being dug out.
[edit on 16-10-2004 by Muaddib]