World Wants Bush Out!

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posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling


Conservative Republicans don't chant propaganda.

As for my reasonong? That is the reason that the world and so-called- Americans wants Bush out!

And plus, I haven't got to give you a reason! I'm an American! I don't need a reason, remember?










Strange,.......... the Republicans don't chant propaganda, isn't that what you said,Intelearthling
,....... that's so
, then why do we hear "4 more years, 4 more years", if thats not chanting and the other "crap" they spew about John Kerry, being propaganda,........ I don't know what ya'd call it
. You republicans can be "so child like", ya'll need to "GROW UP" .

That's RIGHT, we want the SOB GONE, Bush and his hand-pick goons have destroyed the USA's Reputation. The biggest share of Americans are REPUDIATE to George W Bush and his Administration,.......... WE'RE TIRED OF THE BS he tells us and yes, WE WANT HIM GONE


ONE OTHER THING,........... Intelearthling, not ALL Americans think the way you apparently do,.................. Most Americans treat other's ,...American or not with respect and speak with respect to others.




posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Durden
I think I'm just going to sit back and watch this one turn ugly. Here are a few of the answers you're likely to receive:

- Who gives a # about the rest of the world - GO U.S.A.!
- The rest of the world only wants what's worst for the US.
- The rest of the world hates the US, so why should we care about what they think?


That makes me sick that people are so attached to the place they come from like if they are the center of the world!!!!! We are all humans, how can you give a crap about anyone who is not from your country!!! I think I love people too much to think that way, and that's with comments like this that americans looks rude! I have nothing against population of any country, I judge every person individually and that's what people should do..If not, well, you have a LOT to learn

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by sturod84

dood they have books and stuff about chemical combustion and bomb making, im sure even some sites online.
...............


It doesn't work exactly that way sturod....you need to have some instruction, you can't learn everything by looking at websites...and anyways do you think every Al Qaeda member have access to the internet? There are some that do, but not all of them....and if these camps exist...it must be for a reason....not just to look cool....

Do you really think anyone would build terrorist camps just as deco?.....

"oh look lets build a terrorist training camp over there, it's going to look awesome".......



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
The rest of the world is the world beyond our Allies and they don't dictate the policies of the United States. Never have and never will. If they don't like it, tough! What are they going to do about us anyway? Nothing is the answer. A big, fat NOTHING! (But flap them jaws!)

A splendid example of the problem. World opinion means nothing when your in a state of righteousness. 7 million jews in europe were victims of the same ignorance and nationalism. Flap them jaws? Yeah, burnt up two year olds in the smoking ruins of civilian cities flapping their jaws away... this is a sickening attitude brother. The only anti-american sentiment here is your lack of ability to see past your own warped war hounding. This may come as a shock to you but most normal people despise war and bloodshed. Put up the GIJoe figures for a while, WAR IS NEVER RIGHTEOUS.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
The only people that says the United States commits atrocities, are the people that hate this nation. That goes for the people within this country that is voting against President Bush.
A vote for Kerry is the display of hatred for the American way of life.
People overseas who wish President Bush to be out of office are the people who know that Kerry is a wimpy, K-O-S-A, yellow-back and they can get away with anything if he was in control!

You've lost your freaking mind. So if we don't vote for Bush we hate this nation? What the hell kind of logic is that? Kerry is wimpy? Compared to who, Bush? Do you know what a comabt veteran is? Do you know what AWOL and Fortunate Son mean? Put your action figures down and go fight a real war, get you a whiff of burning flesh and take some hostile fire, then go bashing a combat veteran's war record. Or go Awol from Reserve Duty and sit on your butt chicken hawking, but try to get a grip on reality while you spout this nonsense. The people that hate america are the ones burying their sons and daughters thousands of miles away. People like you just hate. Who is more unamerican, the concerned and informed opposition to an unjustified war fought in their names, or hateful war mongers who tout the righteousness of violence and bloodhsed. Get real. Ask THIS KID what he thinks of that fine democracy we laid on them. Or AskTHIS GUY if he thinks the real reason was we went to war was WMD's. THIS KID opposes war, is he just flapping his jaws as well? Ask THIS LITTLE GUY what he thinks of the Iraqi Food For Oil scandal. Or maybe take some time to find out what THIS KID thinks about your righteous war on terrorism. This is real war, look at the links and tell those kids how unamerican we are for opposing an illegal and preemptive war on a noun. Maybe you enjoy this kind of crap, you certainly seem to enjoy your righteous opinions of the war, but honestly, most people who can see past the glass in their televisions know what real war is and what it does.



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Conservative Republicans don't chant propaganda. The whiny, spineless, good-for-nothing Democrats are the masters of propaganda!

Impressive reasoning there 'intel'earthling.


Where's your reasoning, Durden?



As for my reasoning? That is the reason that the world and so-called- Americans wants Bush out! The anti- american "Americans" is a better term for Democrats!

Hm...what was the reason again?


Hmm? Where's your reasoning , Durden?



And plus, I haven't got to give you a reason! I'm an American! I don't need a reason, remember?

Now you don't need a reason? So you don't think there should be a need for proper reasoning for committing atrocities against another nation?


Well, well, well. Did I ever say I needed a reason? Nope. You did. Now, Durden where's your reason?

On top of all this, we've never committed any atrocities in any country to have to give a reason for!

[edit on 15/10/04 by Intelearthling]



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by nanna_of_6

Originally posted by twitchy
Unless we get a paper ballot, I fear it isn't going to matter much who the H*ll you actually vote for. All of the major voting machine manufacturers are outspoken supporters of the GOP and in many cases have already been busted installing software on the machines that wasn't supposed to be there. Our electoral process has been compromised.


Is that the same reason why so many Republican offices are being attacked?


Is that the same reason why there have been more voter fraud being done by liberals/democrats?


[edit on 16-10-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Listen you guys!!! I'm really scared to hear your post and I'm sooooooo glad to live up north in Canada!

You are our neighbors, not too far away!

Maybe you should ALLLLLL vote for WORLD PEACE...no more violence against inocent people, no more profits with gas, no more corruption! I hope that human kind will someday understand that the real world on earth is nothing...It's hell...when the world is divided like that between social class, religions and countries...too bad

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Is that the same reason why so many Republican offices are being attacked?
Is that the same reason why there have been more voter fraud being done by liberals/democrats?


You got some statistical proof of this absurdity? Hell man democrats are four times as likely to die in plane crashes, let alone skiing and boating accidents. Funny who the one senator who openly opposed the invasion of Iraq was Paul Wellstone. The only two members of the Legislature publicly speak out against the patriot act were the ones who received anthrax in the mail (a strain of anthrax traced back to US labs by the way).
That rubbish aside, You are completely blinded by a two party ILLUSION. There is one, and only one political party in this country and that is the Capitalists. While we bicker and argue about who is liberal, who is conservative, who is rich or who is gay, they are robbing us blind while they shake hands and kiss babies. Wake up to a new reality and try to see past the two sided farce you are trying to argue from. There is no difference between the two parties except a logo and some poorly scripted rhetoric.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by nanna_of_6
Strange,.......... the Republicans don't chant propaganda, isn't that what you said,Intelearthling
,....... that's so then why do we hear "4 more years, 4 more years", if thats not chanting and the other "crap" they spew about John Kerry, being propaganda,........ I don't know what ya'd call it


Oh well. Maybe "chant propaganda" was the wrong term to use in this text. I should have said, the Republicans don't try to hide flagrant and disgusting behavior as the Democrats do, because the Republicans are mature individuals, unlike their counterparts!


You republicans can be "so child like", ya'll need to "GROW UP" .


Excuse me? Republicans aren't grown up? It's the child-like attitudes of Democrats that need attention and support from the government. All Republicans want to do is, allow people to grow up and take care of themselves. If they can't, then they need to crawl in a hole and cover themselves up. I wasn't born to take care of the lazy!


That's RIGHT, we want the SOB GONE, Bush and his hand-pick goons have destroyed the USA's Reputation.


I'm at a loss for words on this one. Exactly what reputation was destroyed by the Bush Administration? A reputation for kissing the world's butt in the previous 8 years before President Bush?


ONE OTHER THING,........... Intelearthling, not ALL Americans think the way you apparently do,.................. Most Americans treat other's ,...American or not with respect and speak with respect to others.


I will speak back the way I'm spoken to. I hope I have made myself clear? Thank you! I knew you'd understand!



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
Ask THIS KID what he thinks of that fine democracy we laid on them. Or AskTHIS GUY if he thinks the real reason was we went to war was WMD's. THIS KID opposes war, is he just flapping his jaws as well? Ask THIS LITTLE GUY what he thinks of the Iraqi Food For Oil scandal. Or maybe take some time to find out what THIS KID thinks about your righteous war on terrorism. This is real war, look at the links and tell those kids how unamerican we are for opposing an illegal and preemptive war on a noun. Maybe you enjoy this kind of crap, you certainly seem to enjoy your righteous opinions of the war, but honestly, most people who can see past the glass in their televisions know what real war is and what it does.


I do believe that we Amricans don't need to be told by the far-left on how terrible war is. It's my belief that the far-left can't see past their television screen on how more terrible it would've been if we didn't go into Iraq. Ot's terrible that people get maimed and even killed in war.

We don't live in a "Utopia" type world and I wish people would quit trying to tell us that it's possible. It'll never be possible as long as the enemy seeks to destroy our way of life. Our way of life? Our way of life is to make sure that we remain the beacon of hope for the rest of the world. I'm talking about freedom if you need to know.

I feel for the people in these pictures. But we can't sit on the sidelines and do nothing and let our people live in fear. We also can't go around throwing flower petals and displaying "peace signs", thinking this will solve the problem.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
the Republicans don't try to hide flagrant and disgusting behavior as the Democrats do, because the Republicans are mature individuals, unlike their counterparts!

you pull that one out of your * or are you actually convinced of the righteousness of the republican party? Either way it stinks.


All Republicans want to do is, allow people to grow up and take care of themselves. If they can't, then they need to crawl in a hole and cover themselves up. I wasn't born to take care of the lazy!

Well, that about sums up your opinion of your fellow americans. Hey maybe when Rush Limbaugh gets his overdose on pain meds, you can get a job squealing out this kind of garbage on the radio. You weren't born to formulate educated and informed opinions either apparently. Who's lazy? You refering to a particular ethnic group or just anybody who disagrees with the GOP? Specify this one, who is lazy?



A reputation for kissing the world's butt in the previous 8 years before President Bush?

Here you demonstrate an astounding lack of knowlege. Kissing the world's butt eh? You look at the pics in my previous reply yet? Dude, that is what nationalism looks like. Look at them, then you tell me about buttkissing.
You are an echo, that's all. A funnel that takes information, narrows it into a stream and shape that suits your limited capacity and you spit it out your other side. Do you understand what Fascism is? You are a prime example of the deluded citizenry in the early stages of a facist regime. Cut your tv off, put down the video games and try reading some real information. You have internet, do you read anything... here let me get you started... www.google.com...


I hope I have made myself clear?

Yeah you sure did.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
I do believe that we Amricans don't need to be told by the far-left on how terrible war is. It's my belief that the far-left can't see past their television screen on how more terrible it would've been if we didn't go into Iraq. Ot's terrible that people get maimed and even killed in war.

Dude, Iraq was no threat to us. Afghanistan was no threat to us. Iran is no threat to us. Syria is no threat to us. You are trying to argue a war against terrorism, and that simply isn't what happened. Both the invasion of Iraq adn Afghanistan were mandated by coporate interests before 9-11 ever happened. This is not a conjecture, it's fact. Neither of these countries had anything to do with 9-11, Osama was in Afghanistan, that is the only official explination for that operation. Now keep in mind we turned down numerous offers from other nations for the extradition of Bin Laden, and keep in mind that prior to the war, we were the single largest financial contributors to the Taliban regime. Keep in mind that we had already threatened afghanistan with military action prior to 9-11 when the taliban backed out on UNOCAL. Keep in mind that Osama himself denied any connection to 9-11. Also remeber that the interim president we installed in afghanistan just happened to be a UNOCAL consulatant... Iraq? Please, we wiped out 80% of their military capability in the first gulf war, not to mention the 12 subsequent years of sanctions and inspections. Iraq was no threat to the US at all. The definate links between alqeada and Iraq were proven to be circumstantial at best. Never mind our involvement with the Hussien administration in the 80's when we sold them weapons of mass destruction. Do yourself a favor and read up on the Iran/Iraq war, Iran-Contra, etc. and try to grasp the real nature of US involvement in the reigon. The tell me why, when the suspected terrorists were predominately Saudi Nationals (several of them turning up to be alive and well), did we have to invade Afghanistan or Iraq?


We don't live in a "Utopia" type world and I wish people would quit trying to tell us that it's possible. It'll never be possible as long as the enemy seeks to destroy our way of life. Our way of life? Our way of life is to make sure that we remain the beacon of hope for the rest of the world. I'm talking about freedom if you need to know.

LOL dude, remain a beacon of hope for the rest of the world? You just got through saying something about not kissing the rest of the world's butts. This magnificent concept of spreading freedom, did anyone bother to ask them if they wanted it? Who are we to impose anything on another nation? Our way of life might be offensive to them, in fact it is in many ways very offensive. They don't have television shows like "Desperate Housewives" in arabic nations because they find it offensive. If your grandmother found what you were watching on television offensive, would go over to her house, burn her house down, beat the hell out of her and then make her watch your shows? No, we don't live in Utopia, any half way educated human being in the world couldn't make that claim, nor will we ever live in utopia. You are not only generalizing you are conversely sugegsting that the path to utopia is imposing our idea of freedom to the rest of the world. They don't want us there, we don't want to be there, does that sound like a good path towards utopia to you? We arent acting in the name of some great and grand scheme to implement righteousness here, we invaded two soverign nations under FALSE pretenses, and in the interests of a rich and powerful coporate scam.


I feel for the people in these pictures. But we can't sit on the sidelines and do nothing and let our people live in fear. We also can't go around throwing flower petals and displaying "peace signs", thinking this will solve the problem.

So opposition to war makes you a flower throwing hippie? Let me let you in on a little secret, we created this problem. We funded, trained, armed, supported and manipulated our way into eastern fundamentalism, we created every single threat we now face for the causes of industrialism. We started it, if you don't believe me, do some research. It goes all the way back to Theodore Rosevelt. Get off your butt and read man, I'm not trying to be mean, you seriously need to do some research. Rhetoric is nice but is makes for poor debate material.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
Ignorant claims? Oh you must mean the intelligence that indicated that they were a military threat to the western world. LOL Do you mean the proven to faked documents uranium documents from Nigeria? Or do you mean the Convoys or mobile bioweapons platforms? Every bit of intelligence we had prior to the Invasion of Iraq pointed to not only no credible links between Iraq and Alqeada, but to little or no offensive capability or stock piles, and every scrap of it was mandated, not assesed, mandated by the Bush Administration.

You said "every other agency that investigated this connection have said that there were links between Iraq/Saddam and Al qaeda..."
This is a ridiculous statement and represents a very narrow awareness of world events. The only agencies that have demonstrated any connection betqween Iraq and Alqaeda were once again, mandated by the Bush and Blair administrations.

............are you actually suggesting that Iraq was a threat to us? If we had stayed the hell out of eastern politics instead of manipulating and pissing these peopel off, we wouldn't have to worry about being targets of international terrorism would we. You are in serious need of some understanding of the forces that govern our foriegn policies. ........


Twitchy....the whole fricken world was saying Saddam had wmd, the only difference is that Russia, China, France, Germany and some others didn't want anyone to attack Iraq, because then they would lose any of their business with Saddam.

And again....you are saying if we weren't involved in the war in Iraq we wouldn't be victims of international terrorism.....is that why the wtc was attacked first in 1993? is that why the USS Cole was attacked also during Clinton's administration? Is that why the US was attacked several times during Clinton's administration? not only the ones I mention above?.......*shakes head*

Yeah, you want to do what Clinton did huh? just ignore terrorism, think it will go away or that it will become a "nuisance" like Kerry is saying now.....

Lets see if Bush was the only one to say Saddam had wmd and something must be done about it.... i have posted this info time and time again...have you not read any of these reports? Not only posted by me but other members as well?


Why We Went to War
From the October 20, 2003 issue: The case for the war in Iraq, with testimony from Bill Clinton.
by Robert Kagan & William Kristol
10/20/2003, Volume 009, Issue 06

"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."

--Bill Clinton, July 22, 2003


Excerpted from.
www.weeklystandard.com...

The above link was given originally by Seekerof in the following link.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In the 1999 UNSCOM report, it is stated that there were several tons of unnacounted for wmd in Iraq, and UNSCOM was an agency of the UN, as is UNMOVIC.... So if anyone duped the world and coalition it was the UN as most nations in the world used intelligence from this agency....


May 2, 2002

David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of unaccounted for stocks of Iraqi precursor chemicals, chemical agent and special munitions, based on the findings of the UN Special Commission.

Mr. Straw: In answer to questions on 12 March 2002, Official Report, columns 74345, I said that weapons inspectors were unable to account for 4,000 tonnes of so-called precursor chemicals used in the production of weapons; 610 tonnes of precursor chemicals used in the production of nerve gas; and 31,000 chemical weapons munitions.

This information was the best available at the time, and was based on Iraqi declarations to UNSCOM inspectors between 199198 and data contained in an UNSCOM report published in 1999.


Excerpted from.
www.iraqwatch.org...


The following is Australia intelligence on WMD in Iraq.

www.globalsecurity.org...


The real scandal contained in the long-awaited report of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) that was published last week concerns the fecklessness of the United Nations, not to mention the treacherous conduct of some of its security council members, in its dealings with Saddam's regime between the end of the 1991 Gulf war and last year's Operation Iraqi Freedom.

In the diplomatic build-up to last year's war to remove Saddam Hussein from power, the two most vociferous opponents of military action were Russia and France. Even though Presidents Putin and Chirac reluctantly signed up to UN Security Council resolution 1441 in November 2002 - which threatened Saddam with "serious consequences" if he did not fully comply - they were at the forefront of the international campaign to block military action.


Let me quote this part separately.....


At the time it was felt that their main motivation was to protect their lucrative trade ties with Baghdad. In late 2002, Saddam still owed the Russians some $10 billion, mainly for illegal arms deals. France came next in the trade rankings.


Excerpted from.
www.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2004/10/10/do1001.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/10/10/ixopinion.html

I have posted in the past also the interviews that were done to "other" Russian high ranking military defectors who told that these illegal trades were true, among other things, and the deals went until 2002 (i stated wrongly 2003 in my previous post)

Now as i was looking for more information about this topic I found out the following...directly from the UN website...


The Commission (UNMOVIC) is financed from a small portion of the monies raised from the export of oil from Iraq (the oil-for-food programme). Unlike its predecessor, UNSCOM, the staff of UNMOVIC are employees of the United Nations.


Excerpted from.
www.unmovic.org...

So the UNMOVIC commission was financed from a "small portion of the monies raised from the oil-for-food programme.....which we know that many nations were corrupt and were making illegal deals with Iraq...

Humm...i did not see this before but it is very interesting.....so the UNMOVIC commission which althou it did state that they found banned rockets and other banned materials that were in possesion of Iraq before the war...it stated that they had not found any wmd stockpiles.... humm...i am smelling more corruption here....

The UNSCOM commission was not financed by the "oil-for-food" programmed...and it did state there were unnaccaunted wmd in Iraq...

This is getting interesting.....let's continue.


Here is a link to other links on the Butler report.
www.direct.gov.uk.../Fci




Yeah, keep believing Bush... It's a good thing Enron went down before the election or Bushie boy would be campaigning from a Federal Prison.


The world believed the UN reports which stated in 1999 that Iraq did have unnacounted for wmd....and every intelligence agency wastalking about Iraq's wmd...I have posted that the Canadians were saying this, so was France and Germany.







That's right, a link. Do you understand the difference between a link, and "axis of evil"? The 9-11 comission makes reference to two meetings between SUSPECTED alqeda agents and the Iraqi Government Officials. Two meetings is a far cry from collusion or even support.
........


*shakes head*.....There are more than just two meetings between Al Qaeda agents and Iraqi governemnt officials....you are only reading the excerpts and not looking into the links I am giving....and the information they give...

Saddam was supporting terrorism, not only Al Qaeda but others as well...


Saddam bankrolled Palestinian terrorists

FRASER NELSON
POLITICAL EDITOR

Key points
Documents show Saddam funded Palestinian terrorist group
Syrian business front funded terrorists through UN oil-for-food programme
1991 tape reveals Saddam wanted to use biological weapons against Israel

Story in full SADDAM Husseins links to terrorism have been proven by documents showing he helped to fund the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.


Excerpted from.
news.scotsman.com...







Wow, terrorists camps, in the middle east no less. Do you have any idea how many nations have 'terrorist' training camps? What you and alot of other misinformed folks seem to fail to grasp, is that these terrorists camps are military training for many opposing Factions, from the Sheite to the Sunni. What you call a terrorist camp they call militia.
...............
A terrorist training camp is a nation bombed into the third world and then exploited by foriegn interests and occupied by a hostile military, that's your training camps dude.
And if BinLaden was our objective, then why would Bush himself say March 13, 2002 "I don't know where BinLaden is, I have no Idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority". Wake up, neither Afghanistan or Iraq had any links to 9-11. Infact, Israel and particularly Saudi Arabia were implicated by subsequent investigations as I remeber...


Oh i see...so because they call it "militia camps" they are not terrorists....

BTW...radical Islamist/Islamic extremists want a caliphate on the world with Osama Bin Laden at the head or some other Islamic extremist....

Do you know that Osama wants to have Andalusia back, and France and Italy?....do you know why? Do you know what one of the goals of radical Islamist is? to have the world dominated under Islam....

Sure we are the reason why they are extremists....is that why Radical Islamists tried to conquer the world under the sword in the Middle Ages?
This is the same thing radicals want now...they want those days back.

Please do post evidence that Israel was involved in 9/11.....




Reality check here man, your argument is the one that lacks any evidence what so ever. You post some credible evidence asserting a link between alqeada and Iraq, or Iraqi stock piles of nukes and anthrax, the GOP would love to hear from you cause they have been looking themselves... You got some proof worthy of a preemptive invasion and occupation of TWO soverign nationsm then hell your doing ebtter than the CIA and the entire western world for that matter. Cut off the tv, switch to a non-flouride toothpaste, and skip a flu shot or two and you might catch something other than what's handed to you by a coporate consoidated media. Follow the money, and read some 80's articles and you will hopefully have a better understanding of whats going on because your obviously not learning much from these boards if you still contest WMD's and Alqeada connections.


There is evidence of Iraq being involved with Al Qaeda....but no evidence that Iraq knew and was involved in helping Al Qaeda attack the US directly....

You see...you can have ties with a group, but still not being involved in some of the group's actions.......which you don't seem to understand....

BTW...the UN had to vote on resolution 1441 and it was unilaterally agreed by most of the UN nations....



United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a resolution by the UN Security Council, passed unanimously on November 8, 2002, offering Iraq "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (resolution 660, resolution 661, resolution 678, resolution 686, resolution 687, resolution 688, resolution 707, resolution 715, resolution 986, and resolution 1284), notably to provide "an accurate full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by Resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles". Resolution 1441 threatens "serious consequences" if these are not met. It reasserted demands that UN weapons inspectors should have "immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access" to sites of their choosing, in order to ascertain compliance.

The full text is available on WikiSource (sources.wikipedia.org...).

Although Iraq was given until November 15 to accept the resolution, they agreed on November 13. Weapons inspectors, absent from Iraq since December 1998, returned later that month, led by Hans Blix of UNMOVIC and Mohamed ElBaradei of the IAEA.

In early December, 2002, Iraq filed a 12,000-page weapons declaration with the UN in order to meet requirements for this resolution. The UN and the US said that this failed to account for all of Iraq's chemical and biological agents.


Excerpted from.
www.wordiq.com...





Like I said man, read your history, we have sold both Iran and Iraq weapons. We have supplied both nations with logistic support, sattellite and other intelligence. You forget who put Saddam in power. BinLaden and Carlyle, BinLaden and Bush, Osama Himself was a CIA asset.



Do take your own advice, like i told you before....first, i do know that we helped Saddam fight against Iran....but we stopped after he invaded Kuwait and realized he was a threat for others in the region including the UN and US interests.....and many times have allies become enemies throughout history...and then become friends to attack or defend against a common enemy and become enemies once more.....so what?.....




And yes we can do S*it, but where I'm from we believe in going after those who are actually, well you know, like uh... RESPONSIBLE for the attack. Even your own media is calling it 'pre-emptive' to counter the lack of credible reasoning behind the invasions. That is what they are selling and your buying it.


humm....so Al Qaeda didn't do it?.....so you don't think other Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations would have tried to attack us once more? (Which I am sure they are going to keep trying...)

According to you, if i understand what you are saying, you would have just killed the small group withint Al Qaeda that coordinated the 9/11 attacks...and would have left the rest of Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations which have pretty much the same goal as AQ?.... sure...and you think we wouldn't have been attacked again of course.....




Just about every arabic speaking nation in the modern world has at some point crossed paths with Alqeada. We have aided many such groups ourselves. You live under the paranoid illusion that all arabs are terrorist supporting monsters that are out to destroy your baseball and apple pie, an illusion perpetuated by manipulative foriegn policy and endless propaganda. They are people, nations, cultures, the only difference between us and them is military strength, wealth and dependence on foriegn resources. I'm not condoning terrorism, but like all things terrorism is causal, but when you create a monster, you have to feed it. Lybia? LOL here again you need to read your history, we were duped into attacking Lybia by intercepting decoyed communications courtesy of Israeli Intel.


I do not live under any paranoid illusions...thank you very much..i never said all Arabs or all Muslims are terrorists...do not put words in my mouth I have never said.... but yes there are radicals that want to destroy our way of life or they want the world to be dominated by Islam and Sharia.... Perhaps you are too blind yourself watching baseball and eating apple-pies....things i haven't done in a very long time..... I am not that much of a fan of apple pies or baseball....anyways.....





BinLaden runs around with an American made anti-tank rifle that was presented to him personally as a gift from us. You seem to think that Arms dealers are strictly shady terrorism supporting evil folk. The U.S. is hands down the largest exporter of arms in the world.


Wow, so one weapon which he uses to fight the whole world? Was he an asset of ours before he decided to turn against us? yes....he did turn against us as i proved several times already posting an interview that was done with him in the 1990s....he said that while we were using him to attack the Russians...he and his people were also thinking on how to attack us in the future....

Does the phrase "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sounds familiar to you?.....no?

You are telling me to read on history...I guess you better take your own advice as there have been many allies of ours in the past who turned against us.....for many reasons.... Osama was already thinking in the 80s....when we were helping him and others like him against the Russians...on ways to attack US.....




Wow you mean despite strict trade sanctions imposed and enforced by a multinational coalition after the first gulf war, "Russia among other countries" openly defied the world and sold billions worth of materials and weapons? I must have missed that one in the news. Billions of dollars in weapons, yet they had no organized military offensive or defensive capability? Get real. Iraq was no threat, to assert that there was is ridiculous. Camels, rifles, improvised esplosives... real world threatening stuff there. They weren't even allowed to buy alot of medical equipment and industrially critical chemicals, and your trying to say the world sat back and let russia defy openly defy UN sanctions that they voted for?


Look above.......and weep....or cry, or laugh, or whatever you want, but yes, despite sanctions Russia, and France, among others, did benefit from the "oil-for-food" program and used it to make illegal trades, including weapons...

BTW, do you know that Iraq did fire at least 9 missiles which were banned by the UN on the coalition in Kuwait? no?.......




BTW...for you, and some other members, to see one of the many things that our troops, and rest of coalition have found buried in Iraq, yet they had been in the area for a long time and never noticed before....proving how hard it is to find anything buried in Iraq....



To see more pictures of the above as it was being dug out.

defendamerica.mil...

[edit on 16-10-2004 by Muaddib]



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Amelia
Listen you guys!!! I'm really scared to hear your post and I'm sooooooo glad to live up north in Canada!

You are our neighbors, not too far away!

Maybe you should ALLLLLL vote for WORLD PEACE...no more violence against inocent people, no more profits with gas, no more corruption! I hope that human kind will someday understand that the real world on earth is nothing...It's hell...when the world is divided like that between social class, religions and countries...too bad

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Amelia...idealism is pretty cool and everything, but it is idealistic and not real Reality on the other hand is.....real.....

There will never be world peace....never...no matter who asks for it...no matter what you think.....peace is just a period in between wars.....if there were no wars there would come a time when future generations will forget what wars are and live once more in conflict, because conflict will always exist as long as there are differences....and the world is full of differences...



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy

You got some statistical proof of this absurdity? Hell man democrats are four times as likely to die in plane crashes, let alone skiing and boating accidents. Funny who the one senator who openly opposed the invasion of Iraq was Paul Wellstone. The only two members of the Legislature publicly speak out against the patriot act were the ones who received anthrax in the mail (a strain of anthrax traced back to US labs by the way).
That rubbish aside, You are completely blinded by a two party ILLUSION. There is one, and only one political party in this country and that is the Capitalists. While we bicker and argue about who is liberal, who is conservative, who is rich or who is gay, they are robbing us blind while they shake hands and kiss babies. Wake up to a new reality and try to see past the two sided farce you are trying to argue from. There is no difference between the two parties except a logo and some poorly scripted rhetoric.


First....do you even know that Kerry voted for the patriot act?


Look at the following link on what Kerry voted, and then look at his response for voting for the Patriot Act...

www.senate.gov...

Second i did post at ATSNN last night several links to Democratic and liberal fraud in response from one post about Republican voter fraud...i did say that I know that there are rotten apples in every tree...but i did find more reliable links in which more democratic and liberal fraud was found than Republican. Not to say that it is true also that some Republicans are also making voter fraud.

Here is one more link from New York.
daily.nysun.com...:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2004/08/23&ID=Ar00301

Oh and btw, do tell me which party is being subject to more attacks and intimidation....



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 06:38 AM
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The funny thing is, it is the US allies in the war that are the ones who want him out (i mean the people, not the dicks in harge).


You hit the nail on the head there. I live in austrlia and I do not know ONE person who supports Australia being in Iraq. In fact many people refer to John Howard (our prime minister) as Bush's puppy dog.

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that for example in australia, we don't have that patriotism towards america that alot of americans have, so we see things without an immediate bias towards the US. Add to that the fact Australia is well known for being a peacekeeping country so we generally try to see both sides of the argument, even if the coverage on the war on iraq has been quite biased against the eastern world. I have a suspicision Britain is in a quite similar situation. The politicians are acting like Bush's corgies, but the general population either don't support the war, or have totally no idea about what's going on anymore what with all the conflicting and at times fabricated stories made up by their respective politicians etc.

ps: The reason Johnnie Howard won the recent election is because many Australians didn't believe his competitor had the skills required to effectively manage this situation in iraq. He was too soft in regards to our international defences / affairs, so no heckling about "if the people of australia hated howard so much why did they vote him back in"



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
Where's your reasoning, Durden?

Oh, you missed it? Well let me run it by you again. I questioned the following comments of yours:


If they don't like it, tough! What are they going to do about us anyway? Nothing is the answer. A big, fat NOTHING! (But flap them jaws!)


And plus, I haven't got to give you a reason! I'm an American! I don't need a reason, remember?


Did I ever say I needed a reason? Nope. You did.

So let me repeat my question: Are you saying that you're fine with the US committing atrocities against other nations and that the rest of the world should butt out?

Oh, and then of course there were these comments:


The anti- american "Americans" is a better term for Democrats!


A vote for Kerry is the display of hatred for the American way of life.

Are you seriously of the opinion that the those in your country who vote for Democratic party are actually anti-american and hate the American way of life? If so, that's quite an accusation, so please explain how you came to this conclusion.


[edit on 16-10-2004 by Durden]



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 07:25 AM
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I haven't read all the replies here, but this is in response to the original post:

Aussies Back Bush
Aussies Back Bush
Radio 3AW, Melbourne Australia | 16 October 2004 | Aussie Dasher

Posted on 10/16/2004 8:01:15 AM EDT by Aussie Dasher


On the highest rating, most listened-to breakfast program on Melbourne radio, the hosts asked their audience a question yesterday.

That question? "Do you want to see George W. Bush re-elected as President of the United States of America?".

After one of the largest audience reactions to any poll question, a full 60% of listeners said "Yes".

Despite what you're told by the liberal left media, it's good to know the truth: the people, wherever they may be, are with President Bush.


Thanks, Aussies!





posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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Reading this thread worries me. I'm from the UK (a country not too keen on George Bush, all told) and from looking at different news sites and from reading threads all over the web, I see a country seemingly split right down the middle, over two parties who are not at all that different. We have the same problem here in the UK.
The similarities are numerous, we have a (very subtly repressive) leading party and an opposition party that claims to have vastly different policies. However, we do have an up-and-coming more liberal third party, but nobody takes them completely seriously yet, and their leader isn't particularly charismatic. Basically, it's choosing death by electrocution or death by hanging (figure of speech, people).

The reason for a lot of this is that politics has stretched further away from the public. Every day on the news we see images of war and our government's lies over and over again until we're desensitized to it.
This has only led to mass voter apathy. Now, the government may claim that voter apathy is a problem, and 'high turnout is important to maintaining a democracy' (blah blah) but if they have an apathetic population who are rarely going to take notice of what they're doing, then why should they care? Even when we've been moved out of our apathy (see the Iraq War protests, where 1 million people marched around London) we've been ignored.

I've sidetracked a bit, but I think a lot of countries see the same problems in the US, with George W. Bush as the figurehead of this. A lot of visitors and foreign viewers have seen the news programmes aired in America, and can see the bias that's in there. He already had a bad reutation to begin with for not exactly being the sharpest knife in the drawer, so to speak, and as people learn more about him and the people in his office there are worried.

That's right, worried. I would say more people are worried about America, than outright hate it. People realise that the huge stature of America in the world has more than a lot to do with our futures. A lot of people see what's going on and worry for themselves, their families, they countries and the USA. Nobody wants to hate the USA, they just want to see it doing positive things for the future of the world. A lot of people don't think bombing innocent people to smithereens is a positive way to help the world, and I agree.
I think the world just wants to see peace, and wants to see positive change, and they don't see Bush and his buddies as the way to achieve that. If Bush comes out and has turned over a new leaf with new initiatives that promote true world peace (with no strings attached), rather than the barbed rhetoric and debates him and Kerry have been performing, I think the world would be happy to see him in.
But its doubtful that's going to happen, therefore the world wants him out.

The only problem (although some may not see it that way) is that they don't get a vote.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by HobNob
Reading this thread worries me. I'm from the UK (a country not too keen on George Bush, all told)


- That I would have to agree with Hobnob.....although I think the term "not too keen" is down-playing the actual feeling by a very significant degree.

Bush is so loathed in the UK that even his political soul-mates here (the Conservative party) dare not express outright support for him as even they understand just how deeply disliked Bush is here.....or they will make a joke about him as they understand how risible he is seen by so many as here.....true, a scary joke.....like any fundamentalist zealot with basic life-skills 'problems', but a joke nonetheless.

I would suggest that the UK (like the rest of Europe) has not only loathed Bush's politics since day 1 but has never accepted his 'legitimacy' either as he was not only the loser of the popular vote in overall numbers but he also had his brother rig the crucial Florida poll and his da's mates select him at the Supreme Court.



and from looking at different news sites and from reading threads all over the web, I see a country seemingly split right down the middle,


- Yeah it's weird.

'Cos it's not just one split into 50/50 either IMO.

There's the split of the 50% who vote and that 50% who do not ......and then the 50% who do vote are split into 2 as everyone knows.

......or at least think they know, till now.

I'm betting that this election in the USA will see a change in the idea that 50% won't vote. My bet is Bush is so appalling (particularly to those in the bottom half of US society....mainly the half that doesn't vote) that he will be sent packing due to many of those previously not expected to vote doing so.

(which is also why I'd take the US & it's polls based on 'are you likely to vote' voters with a ton or 2 of salt.....and even there Bush isn't in the lead anyway)


over two parties who are not at all that different. We have the same problem here in the UK.


- Here I disagree. In the UK our General election vote turnout is usually over 60%.

The Conservatives would love everyone to think they're much the same as Labour but when you look at the policies, attitudes, instincts and likely preferences and the track-records....... no way IMHO.

Whatever Blair/Labour's faults (and I will agree he/they have more than a few) he and his party/Government are so superior to any potential Conservative one......and Jayzuss God save us all, not to mention a Conservative one run by that ghastly 'Mr Poll tax himself' Michael 'Vlad' Howard & Co.!







[edit on 16-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]





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