Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

Pinocchio
DEVIL = TYRANT
SATAN = FANATIC
BEAST = IGNORANT...

FATHER = MASTER
SON = APPRENTICE
HOLY SPIRIT = CRAFT...

GOD = G.A.O.T.U....

HOLY GROUND = LANDMARKS...

DIVINITY = HIGHER POWER...

Freemason is free of religion... thus... Lucifer cannot be their deity.
Instead there is/are "Weights & Measures" which kind of ring a tune considered satanic, in the folk lore'ish sense of it.

Do Freemasons do "Homage & Fealty"...?

edit on 23-1-2014 by Pinocchio because: Pinocchio is not the Ark Of The Covenant! Hmph...

What does this post mean? I cant understand what you are saying.

ancientpast
wow, I didn't realize I'd be wading through such a cesspool of sewage when I opened up this thread.

The OP and his mason buddies really goto lengths here to bend definitions and logic. I'm glad there were at least 2 stalkers who sliced through the smoke.

The biggest piece of the puzzle, in my opinion, that only one or two really picked up on, is that to join masons you have to ascribe to a supreme being AND that, they define the supreme being as omnipotent and the creator of THE universe (as if there is only one). All I can say is using language to talk about concepts that go beyond creation leads to 60+ pages of mostly garbage...

Maybe the one true god didn't create anything at all...

First let me state that i like most of the Mason's on here there some of the more funnier posters, but secondly your post has some merit if pointed in the right direction let me explain, the fear of Freemason's comes from the fact that a lot of people believe that the supposed higher ups of degrees that are not even official by laws of Freemasonry are Illuminati or The Powers That Be....

Now this in my opinion does hold some merit first i do think there are in some very select lodges point men that qualify as what people describe as Illuminati or The Powers That Be or what ever they fancy calling them self's, however when these point men try and recruit a normal Mason they gave them a line of B.S, they tell the Mason there trying to get into there group that they could be 1000th degree Mason's (i'm saying 1000th to be funny) but they make up bull crap degrees, then the Mason who has been zoned in by the point man of the agenda probably because he was seen as having some type of monotone
power some type of higher intelligence or being special to the need of the secret group is bribed more then likely spied on at first to see if his morals can be corrupted by his out of the masonic lodge life, if it seems he can then he's bribed, it does not happen that much and not in most lodges but i think it's happened and at this point more over seas then in the States, i would look at more government type monarch countries for this like Belgium rather then England but it happens there also again very rarely.......

Next i love Fritz Springmeier and i feel in his books he nailed some things pretty dame accurate, he nailed the Chateau des Amerois and he nailed some very interesting types of mind control methods that we can all look out for and change and beat with perception and other belief systems, and he also nailed the fact that there is indeed a very evil power structure that prays on the innocent and he linked it back to the group the Illuminati.....



Where i think he went wrong however is through his studying he gave them to much power and to much control something he sort of admits by saying he had to take a break from his studies because everything started to seem like it was Illuminati control which it simply just isn't, yes a group called the Illuminati or The Powers The Be do exist if they came from Adam Weishaupt is not really the point at this juncture and yes they did harm Cisco Wheeler and Cathy O'Brien and Brice Taylor in some very bad ways, hell even a mod on here who i really respect named General Eyes seemed to have had a bad run in with them.....

But the point is and i must stress this they are not as powerful as Fritz made them out to be, they don't have as much control as Fritz said they do everything is not Illuminati or The Powers That Be sure yes they have powerful members in some high places and sure they do harm innocent people in very bad ways but they don't own the world and just because we see symbolism does not mean it's Illuminati control... that is giving them to much power, everyone uses symbolism normal Masons, normal artist, by saying every strange act of symbolism is Illuminati control is giving them to much mind control power that must be stopped....

And yes i have some theories if this group known as TPTB did ultimately arrive directly from Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati if it did it clearly went wrong some where down the line, i would just guess that if the group did secretly survive and go on it started to splinter in to two factions a light and a dark side, the dark side i would say would of started going wrong when they added Aleister Crowley beliefs in the 1920's and then took it to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi experiments of World War 2 and then Satanism within the C.I.A that Ted Gunderson was talking about in the 1980's and that is what Fritz Springmeier dealt with according to Cisco Wheeler she said the mind control they used on her stemmed from evil Witchcraft and the C.I.A which is what Ted Gunderson knew about...

The Bottom line is most Mason's aren't involved in this evil that befell some very good and innocent people, some which are right here on ATS, Most Mason's are normal folk's that don't worship the devil there just trying to make new friends and live life, life can be hell trust me on this and the more friends you have the better......

Just some thoughts i have been pondering....

reply to post by King Seesar

My question would be what constitutes a "very select Lodge"? Is it a historical standard, a wealth of the Lodge standard, or a status of membership standard that designates these Lodges in your opinion?

1000th degree?! Who told you?!

I think in the Illuminati-NWO theories, Freemasonry is a convenient target because of our secret, or rather private, nature.

KSigMason
reply to post by King Seesar

 

My question would be what constitutes a "very select Lodge"? Is it a historical standard, a wealth of the Lodge standard, or a status of membership standard that designates these Lodges in your opinion?

1000th degree?! Who told you?!

I think in the Illuminati-NWO theories, Freemasonry is a convenient target because of our secret, or rather private, nature.

First before i answer your questions and this is totally off topic but i got to say it, i will never forget the time when you were debating Lucifer777 and he said that he was bi-sexual but trust him ask his female partner he is all man....your response still go's down in the annals of history as one of the most funniest responses i have ever heard, you replied "sorry Sally but once you take it up the pipe your gay aint no going back so don't even try it" a classic, still bags me up to this day sure politically incorrect but who isn't from time to time i sure as hell am and you my friend are great......

Now on to a more serious note i would assume that certain lodges are scouted by this group or have some type of history all ready established kind of what you are saying by a historical standard, they look for certain recruits, power, fame, intellect and then scout them as to see if they can be corrupted to do there style of business, at this point your (The Masons) just once aspect to the larger picture, they have what i call point men in other avenues also such as the entertainment industry, the religious structures also political endeavors and of course politics.....

I would guess all the avenues are done the same way through scouts who look into the potential recruits back round and see if they can be corrupted or if there's any dirt on them to black mail them into the group.....

Here's the thing and i don't like this as much as you wouldn't...there's also another reason you poor guys are targets of these maniacs other then looking for gifted people within your constituary.....they want your knowledge of the use of symbolism for there own means, symbols are very powerful and they study you guys to get how the theology behind it works and take it and use it for mind control on certain avenues, it blows i know.....and i don't like it and don't take this lightly it's not right that you the Masons are exploited this way by them with there fake bull crap degrees and stealing your knowledge for the wrong purpose it's the reason you guys are blamed all the time for no reason.....

But the positive to all of this is like i said while yes they do have scouts and point men in different avenues of society there not nearly as big a group as people make them out to be, it's where Fritz got it wrong like i said he gave to much power to the group where everything was Illuminati and not everything is, which is why he needed to take a break from his studies because he got trapped within them thinking everything was and he was surrounded by that....which is a ploy by them to use illusion to make them self's seem much more powerful and much more in control and a much bigger group then they really are and yes they use symbolism as a illusion to try and pull this crap off when if you get by there bull sh*t control it's more your groups symbolism some times then there's, amongst other peoples symbolism it's not all there's most is not, that is there illusionary control.....

In closing i'll say this and you should have a listen to this song it's called Cell therapy by the Goodie Mob and it's about the New World Order well the final MC of the song named Big Gipp has the best line he says "mind blown perception is protection" in another words he's saying you over perceive there control and make it want you want it to be because after all that's the only thing they the Illuminati TPTB or whatever are using....so if there using perception for fake control we use perception for our control......

Heck i'm all for thinking in some cases that some symbolism is your groups stuff then there's in a heart beat i have no problem with normal by law freemasonry other then i'm not to big on secret societies i prefer to be my own secret society LOL, but for real you guys are a good counter control for there crap along with other groups symbolism or just other peoples artistic taste in symbolism who cares as long as they don't control.......

Anyway take care friend....

reply to post by LouisCypher


Catholic and freemasonic overtones... somewhat equal.

reply to post by King Seesar


The sesame street gang were/are the impoverished puppets...
The Muppets were/are the aristocracy of childhood television.
Every country has it poor and rich.
My point?
Those who are raised in unto the wealthier life are swarmed by mystical and mythical illuminati.
The poor don't get it because they linger and squander their time.
They get high and drunk too.
Some even give in to crime.
Anyhow.... Freemasons really can be illuminati... simply because they have the criteria.
Yay for that.
I can die happy like an impoverished puppet from sesame street.

P.S. Elmo is three years old. His Elmo's house show is disturbing.
He's home alone without supervision and he lets the monsters in.
Freemasons have yet to receive their invite. Go figure...

Jesus, the OP sounds like the only person who is making sense. Christians like to believe that the whole thing is about "worshipping satan" because it makes their religon seem more significant. The truth is it has nothing to do with it. The whole reason it is secret is to avoid people who cannot think, making biased claims which they do anyways.

They do not believe in christianity, they believe in light over darkness, truth over lies. So if a christian wanted to become a freemason then he could join, but only if he seeks truth and not, "zomg satan! zomg god!" The point is it goes beyond cultural religons, and one must be able to look at other cultures and religons, to distinguish light over darkness/truth over lies. A christian will be quick to label anything non christian as the work of satan, and that is why the freemasons dont let those kinds of people join. You have to find the truth in every single piece of history and the divine in every single piece of history and culture and seek to connect the dots.

Christians want to call this the worship of Satan, because they don't want to label it as the belief of truth beyond christianity

theamericanspirit93
Jesus, the OP sounds like the only person who is making sense.

Once in awhile, say every year or two, networkdude also makes sense. But try not to tell him, he may ask for a raise.

reply to post by King Seesar

Is it true... that there are 99 plus 0 degrees in masonry...???

0 Chamber of Reflection... trial by fire.

1-33 aka Associate Degrees (to serve in the community)...
34-66 aka Bachelor Degrees (to love a woman)...
67-99 aka Master Degrees (total control)... imperial wizard!

100th Degree aka Doctorate... a place in the hall of fame. LOL...

Pinocchio
reply to post by King Seesar

 

Is it true... that there are 99 plus 0 degrees in masonry...???

0 Chamber of Reflection... trial by fire.

1-33 aka Associate Degrees (to serve in the community)...
34-66 aka Bachelor Degrees (to love a woman)...
67-99 aka Master Degrees (total control)... imperial wizard!

100th Degree aka Doctorate... a place in the hall of fame. LOL...

Maybe your on to something LOL, but truth be told i have done studies on both the Freemasons and the group that they say the secret higher ups belong too, now most of the people who believe that there are secret higher ups with a agenda never ever blame the by law mason's hardly ever, and sometimes it's religious motivated which is funny because i think the main sectors of the four major religions have been infiltrated in the same small way the very masons that that they criticize are, which is why i would never ever and i mean ever consider myself religious, spiritual yes religious no, religion leads to mind control as does other things....

But the point i am making is when i do all the math and add up just about every persons take on the Illuminati TPTB ect ect, the only way the thing makes sense is the way i detailed it above, and i do believe that is the way it is done, again not to criticize Fritz Springmeier because he did a lot of good and got people talking and some detail had to start some where but like i said he gave the group way to much power, first there's not nearly as many members as he said there was as i said above that is there illusion, but yes they are powerful they have money and they have infiltrated very important aspects of the world there just not as powerful as people make them out to be and there a much smaller group then what is known, also i think it's tough to lock them down with generalizing bloodlines it gos far beyond that people can't help there blood and just because your name says Van Duyn doesn't mean your satanic, it's more about who took the bait who joined the group who is pulling the strings and even if they still use codes for there programming like (B) (A) ect ect i am sure the mind control codes have changed because of what we know now....

But back to the point i was making in the first paragraph the reason all the conspiracy theorists never blame the by law Freemasons is because there not involved and like i said they keep getting linked to it for a reason and i gave you the most logical one that adds up to just about every conspiracy theory involving the two groups, the infiltrated are fake degrees made up to bait and switch members into there group which is not by law Freemasonry......that and symbols are a powerful thing and this other group the Illumianti or what ever steals the concept behind it and learns the art of symbols for power......much like sigil's in magic and there use which i am studying right now....

King Seesar
Maybe your on to something LOL, but truth be told i have done studies on both the Freemasons and the group that they say the secret higher ups belong too...

Just out of curiosity, what is the group the 'higher ups' allegedly belong to and what have you found about them?

AugustusMasonicus

Just out of curiosity, what is the group the 'higher ups' allegedly belong to and what have you found about them?

I'm not in any groups, but I do have a 'secret identity' (hahaha!).
I will tell you what I figured though.
It's like being "out in the open" but "swinging in the shadows".
Sounds funny but can be frustrating when everyone thinks you are a 'masked menace'.

muzzleflash

Holy Grail = Sacred Heart. Alternate link: Sacred Heart of Mary.

So the figurative message is? Take a drink of Santa Sofia to quench that "Spiritual Thirst"?

Suit of Cups Tarot

The suit of hearts is derived from the suit of cups. These are sometimes referred to as chalices as well as cups.

Heart = Cup/Chalice/Grail
Also Roses in another deck.

Seemed pretty easy but it was exceptionally well hidden I concede.

So fitting it now seems :
Eat Your Heart Out

Disputed. Three schools of thought exist:
From "This will eat your heart out.", suggesting that the recipient of the taunt will have their heart, the core of their being, eaten out with desire, bitterness, or pain.
From the 16th century "to eat one's own heart" (to suffer in silence from anguish or grief), possibly from the Bible "to eat one's own flesh" (to be lazy) The phrase "to eat one's heart out" appears as a formulaic phrase in the Iliad, meaning to experience extreme grief. (For instance, Iliad.24.128, many other locations.)
When used as the taunt "Eat your heart out, [someone]!" a suggestion that the recipient of the taunt "eat up" as much as they like. (From the same construction as "dance your heart out," etc.) Literally, similar to "have all you can eat!" Figuratively more akin to "experience me besting you."

So therefore the secret of Communion with God.

Eucharist or the Lord's Supper, the Christian rite involving the eating of bread and drinking of wine, reenacting the Last Supper

Bread (Read Red-'Breeds of Reeds') = Core/Kore = Heart
Wine = Blood = Grail = Rose = Heart
God-Head = Heart

Note: Aaru

or the Egyptian reed fields, are the heavenly paradise, where Osiris ruled after he became part of the Egyptian pantheon and displaced Anubis in the Ogdoad tradition. It has been described as the ka (a part of the soul) of the Nile Delta.

The Ka (kꜣ) was the Egyptian concept of vital essence, that which distinguishes the difference between a living and a dead person, with death occurring when the ka left the body. The Egyptians believed that Khnum created the bodies of children on a potter's wheel and inserted them into their mothers' bodies. Depending on the region, Egyptians believed that Heket or Meskhenet was the creator of each person's Ka, breathing it into them at the instant of their birth as the part of their soul that made them be alive. This resembles the concept of spirit in other religions.

The Egyptians also believed that the ka was sustained through food and drink. For this reason food and drink offerings were presented to the dead, although it was the kau (kꜣw) within the offerings that was consumed, not the physical aspect. The ka was often represented in Egyptian iconography as a second image of the king, leading earlier works to attempt to translate ka as double.

Vitality:

From Latin vita [1], which means life.
Outside of its own existence or source, life is only recognized through some form of expression or dynamic.

Hey...anyone Hungry?
Maybe for an Atom Heart Mother burger?

So what is Marilyn Mason's album Eat Me, Drink Me actually about?
The "Holy Heart Shaped Chocolate Within" ? There may even be an 'Ant' inside it too huh? (Cosmic Antenna?)

So here's the song list:

"If I Was Your Vampire"
"Putting Holes in Happiness"
"The Red Carpet Grave"
"They Said That Hell's Not Hot"
"Just a Car Crash Away"
"Heart-Shaped Glasses (When the Heart Guides the Hand)"
"Evidence"
"Are You the Rabbit?"
"Mutilation Is the Most Sincere Form of Flattery"
"You and Me and the Devil Makes 3"
"Eat Me, Drink Me"

So that is why the "Grail/Heart" is associated with "Life-Vitality" it would seem.

Anyways, don't worry because this won't be my Last Crusade.

muzzleflash

Marilyn Mason's

Mind slip?

Hmmm...lol!

"Manson"....mistype.
I honestly didn't mean it!
Derp.

Satan can't corrupt freemasons... so he'll prolly not look to them for recruitment.
Am I right...???

AugustusMasonicus

King Seesar
Maybe your on to something LOL, but truth be told i have done studies on both the Freemasons and the group that they say the secret higher ups belong too...

Just out of curiosity, what is the group the 'higher ups' allegedly belong to and what have you found about them?

I think the origin of this group is where the focal point maters most, let me explain, from my studies i have factored in every type of conspirator theory mixed in with the skeptical point of view and broke it down kind of like this......

As i have stated above the alleged higher ups within the confines of Freemasonry they are what one would call fake degrees a tool used to bring in a member of the real Freemasonic lodge once there have been some type of infiltration, it's all based on studies form this group they find power in the knowledge of Freemasonry and try and recruit very smart or corruptible Mason's to teach the finer arts of symbolism, why one might ask??? well this group needs the very art of symbolism for the illusionary effect of more control then they actually have...

Now on to the origin of the group probably the most debated thing amongst conspiracy theorist and skeptics alike well to simplify it to the core of what should be noted is this......it really doesn't mater where they came from before this TIME LINE in my opinion if they were remnants of Adam Weishaupts group or some other type of studiers, the origin within this time line is the key to finding out how it began within this darken region.....lets start at the beginnings of 1 plus 1....which means Aleister Crowley plus the Adolf Hitler Nazi scientists of world war 2.......

It's well known that Adolf Hitler was obsessed with the occult and Alister Crowley was noted at around this time of being a very powerful master of this craft so his knowledge was passed on to Hitler who then wanted to combine the studies of the occult with science....what we got out of this was a group of mad men which spread cancer through out our world to varying degrees ...


We all know what happened next, when the war ended and Hitler was toppled instead of killing the Nazi scientists for war crimes which should of been done effectively killing this group both America and the Soviet Union divided up the lot and took them and there studies to there own country........

That was the beginnings of this group that we now call today the Illuminati the Cabal or TPTB...Fritz Springmeier got somethings right in his studies of them but some things wrong unfortunately, also and i kind of get why he went where he went and the mistakes he made, first he gave them way to much power not factoring in the illusionary arts that this group is known to use and instead listing it as actual control which it is not, second he was getting knowledge from very damaged people from this groups confines so all the info was not actual, sure some was but these people were hurt bad so it was to be suspected, third he tried to sort of organize a mapping of the group to find members and such and his ground zero starting bases was bloodlines which is not really where he should of went, sure some powerful people within this group are from some of the families he mentioned but it's a select few and there's members from a bunch of families, bloodlines is irrelevant......

In conclusion from what i gathered is a powerful group born from darkness that yes is powerful has money and a bunch of members but not nearly the size that Fritz concluded they had that would be there craft of illusion, through all there (this evil group) studies they did come up with a very intricate evil twisted concept of mind control which Fritz Springmeier detailed in parts of his book, however this form of mind control can be defeated with the simple art of over perceiving....after all when you brake it down all there trying to do is force feed down your throat through trauma or teachings there own ways of over perceiving knowledge they stole or made up...let me explain.

The ways this group uses mind control is coding from a lettering system such as (A) (B) ect ect however it is all stolen or fabricated knowledge from groups of the past that have used lettering systems for there own use without such evil intent, say what you want about David Icke but he was right about this, he said this group is clever but not wise and they are not, they don't have a ounce of creativity in there bone it's all stolen and perverted knowledge from different systems......

So in conclusion i would say just over perceive do your own studies and see through this control structures bull crap, we out number them by about ten billion more then even Fritz said and there various degrees of knowledge form the occult or science can easily be defeated with the art of over perceiving there B.S crap in the first place which is just there perception anyway or other means of breaking them down would be from using more powerful occult knowledge or ones God or both....

King Seesar
As i have stated above the alleged higher ups within the confines of Freemasonry they are what one would call fake degrees a tool used to bring in a member of the real Freemasonic lodge once there have been some type of infiltration, it's all based on studies form this group they find power in the knowledge of Freemasonry and try and recruit very smart or corruptible Mason's to teach the finer arts of symbolism, why one might ask??? well this group needs the very art of symbolism for the illusionary effect of more control then they actually have...

What are the contents of these 'fake degrees'? Where are they held? What are they called?

What are the 'finer arts of symbolism' and how do you control anyone with them?

Now on to the origin of the group probably the most debated thing amongst conspiracy theorist and skeptics alike well to simplify it to the core of what should be noted is this......it really doesn't mater where they came from before this TIME LINE in my opinion if they were remnants of Adam Weishaupts group or some other type of studiers, the origin within this time line is the key to finding out how it began within this darken region.....lets start at the beginnings of 1 plus 1....which means Aleister Crowley plus the Adolf Hitler Nazi scientists of world war 2.......

It absolutely does matter where they came from. If the premise is erroneous in its foundation then specious linking of this group to Crowley and Hitler are rendered irrelevant.

It's well known that Adolf Hitler was obsessed with the occult and Alister Crowley was noted at around this time of being a very powerful master of this craft so his knowledge was passed on to Hitler who then wanted to combine the studies of the occult with science....what we got out of this was a group of mad men which spread cancer through out our world to varying degrees ...

What 'knowledge' was passed to Hitler by Crowley and how was the transfer affected?

We all know what happened next, when the war ended and Hitler was toppled instead of killing the Nazi scientists for war crimes which should of been done effectively killing this group both America and the Soviet Union divided up the lot and took them and there studies to there own country........

Are you referring to the German rocket scientists? If so why would most of them by 'killed for war crimes'? The vast majority had nothing to do with ethnic cleansing and the entire war crimes tribunals produced very few death sentences in relation to the number of accused.

In conclusion from what i gathered is a powerful group born from darkness that yes is powerful has money and a bunch of members but not nearly the size that Fritz concluded they had that would be there craft of illusion, through all there (this evil group) studies they did come up with a very intricate evil twisted concept of mind control which Fritz Springmeier detailed in parts of his book, however this form of mind control can be defeated with the simple art of over perceiving....after all when you brake it down all there trying to do is force feed down your throat through trauma or teachings there own ways of over perceiving knowledge they stole or made up...let me explain.

I am not following what you are saying here. How do you 'force' symbolism on anyone and are you saying that people are so mush-brained that this alleged symbolism makes them perform acts they normally would not?

The ways this group uses mind control is coding from a lettering system such as (A) (B) ect ect however it is all stolen or fabricated knowledge from groups of the past that have used lettering systems for there own use without such evil intent, say what you want about David Icke but he was right about this, he said this group is clever but not wise and they are not, they don't have a ounce of creativity in there bone it's all stolen and perverted knowledge from different systems......

Since Masonic lessons do not have a 'lettering system' how does this relate to Masonry?

So in conclusion i would say just over perceive do your own studies and see through this control structures bull crap, we out number them by about ten billion more then even Fritz said and there various degrees of knowledge form the occult or science can easily be defeated with the art of over perceiving there B.S crap in the first place which is just there perception anyway or other means of breaking them down would be from using more powerful occult knowledge or ones God or both....

Being that I do not believe in a modern day version of the Illuminati there really is nothing I feel I need to 'defeat' by using powerful occult knowledge.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The fake degrees would be when a infiltrated member from this other group approaches a real Mason makes up a lie and says there are higher secret degrees that if you join our secret sect you can obtain this knowledge which in it's self is B.S just to get the person in the lodge who was seen as some one with a high grad in terms of awareness or corruptibility......


Symbolism can be used for a trapping method let me explain, i came across someone on another board who i suspected was one of there's he was also a studier of Masonic knowledge what he did was create about 5000 user names and he would select certain people study them from a far and write down every word they said then after he was done he would start using different user names with different avatars that all related to something they said during the whole six to eight months he studied them by a means of trying to put them in some type of false reality by making the person suspend there own logic and see that for some reason every thing they said was now coming true in both avatars (symbolism) and the persons words through his bunch of user namers.....little did the person know that it was the same poster doing this to experiment with the others to see his or hers reaction by this vile human being......he then on another board created something called a codex where he wrote his findings down......

I explained this method to Josh Norton one of your Mason friends and we both agreed that this vile human was doing this to put the persons victims into some type of illusion for magical purposes and one of his key tactics was avatars relating to the people he was experimenting on, well what are avatars??? symbols.... so think what this piece of garbage did with avatars aka symbols and link it to a much larger scale and that is what this group does it's the power of symbols and no your right in a sense it's not just the power of symbols but symbols mixed in with other things that can put people into a state of disbelief and hypnosis leaving them to magical experiments or mind control.....

Also the Nazi scientists were doing a whole hell lot more then studying rocket specifics i think this en.wikipedia.org... explains this and regardless they were Nazi's and should of been put to death for working with Hitler and yes they were doing human experimentation, one of the reasons i think Russian TV talks a lot about the Illuminati is because when they were done figuring out what they learned from the occult mixed with science by there Nazi scientists they so how evil it was and stopped and are now whistle blowing things they know......

How Crowleys knowledge got to Hitler is up for conjecture but it's been long speculated and makes 100 percent sense, lets face it we know Hitler loved the occult and around that time the only person practicing magic of that kind of power and let the world know he was doing it was Aleister Crowley so of course Hitler is going to study that knowledge......

Also i know the Freemasons don't use a lettering system but like i said this group stole knowledge from a bunch of different systems and came up with there own like i said they don't have a original bone in there body so it's all stolen knowledge that's been combined and perverted.......

Who gave Crowleys knowledge to Hitler is a guess a big question and to that i don't know, could of it been someone from Adam Weishaupt's left over group or someone else to me it doesn't mater because that is how it started, sure evil existed before this group was born but the evil was all centralized to specific regions, after World War 2 and the topple of Germany every one went for a power grab of the planet and some of these centralized evils united and we got this group call them what you want but this is there origin....

Why would they want to destroy something they helped build.

jazz10
Why would they want to destroy something they helped build.

What and who are you referring to?

jazz10
Why would they want to destroy something they helped build.

Yea i'm wondering what AugustusMasonicus said are you talking about the OP topic of Mason's or the group i just explained is real?? the Illuminati TPTB or the cabals that came together after World War 2 or what ever you want to refer to this group as i'm talking about???

If your talking about the group i'm talking about it's simple if they can't control the world they covet then they will do as much damage to it until they get there control, the thing i was saying before hand is the fact that there numbers are not as great as it seems kind of look at it like this... that poster on the other board i was talking about who was using mind control and seemed to be part of this group had at least 5000 user names and used some of them to mind control others through practice.......whats the common denominator to what i'm saying it's that he had to make it look like more people were him when it just was him under different ghostnics/usernames, in other words he had to use illusion to make it seem like he was bigger then he was......


Now take that theory on a larger scale this group has to use illusion to make it seem like they are bigger then they really are but yes it's true they do have members who are powerful that are rich and are smart and some hold positions of power in certain sectors but there not as big as you think, but as all evil is such as Hitler himself they must be stopped.......

I saw what this mad man was doing to people on this board and how he was using mind control to get into a position of power like for instance this maniac was a extra actor and through his technique attracted the attention of a really big famous movie producer/director who made some really famous movies, i wont say who he was but any way as soon as he announced himself and who he was i told the director to get the (bleep) off of the board these people are Illuminati you want no parts...i know this maniac was trying to position himself into Hollywood so i took a stance well needless to say the board i told the director this info on shut down very soon after and this mad man using mind control never got another acting gig i kept notes on him at IMDB so chalk one up for me i guess.........