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Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:59 AM
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Really interesting and thought provoking, maybe the masons simply "believe" in God but don't serve him and instead serve satan, or maybe their beliefs are similar to that of the Yazidis of Mesopotamia who claim to have the oldest religion on earth.

Yazidis




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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nice thread!

i have done a lot of research on freemasonry,as well as the templars. (i am not a mason)
what you say is true,and if anything,a lot of the rituals are based around the old testament teachings!
i myself have started/responded to threads on the history,and actual meanings of the words(not names!)
lucifer and satan,and have had all kinds of 'barstool prophets' put their 2 bits in,and more often than not,with hysterical rebuttals!!!
these same people actually think 'christ' was jesus' name!!! (greek-christos= annointed,[messiah])

what is funny is that lucifer is only mentioned once in the whole bible,in the old testament book of Isaiah!
and it doesn't even refer to an 'evil devil',it speaks of the king of babylon!


Text


maybe next time we'll discuss the title/meaning of satan!
peace




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by Maccaron.Shakaron
Really interesting and thought provoking, maybe the masons simply "believe" in God but don't serve him and instead serve satan, or maybe their beliefs are similar to that of the Yazidis of Mesopotamia who claim to have the oldest religion on earth.

Yazidis


Fantastic job of completely missing the entire point of the OP.
Kudos for the willful ignorance. Truely a thumbs up situation.


Maybe, just maybe, most masons believe in the very same God of the Bible and are just smart enough to know that Lucifer is a mistranslation and the continued use of that term is laughable by "religious" self proclaimed scholars. But it's very possible that you indeed serve Satan. Just sayin.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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the lodges have always been a meeting place where people who are attracted to secrets gather and...after lodge go off into their smaller groups doing the same or other things.

I am not a deist or theist but I will borrow a bible verse to help illuminate the mystery of the secretists.

" if any many hath a candle doth he put in under a bushel no "

The light is held up high for all to see and be illuminated by.

This masonic light is a lie and a light of shame it is kept under wraps and not displayed or shared proudly so that all can benefit therefore it is easy to deduce there is something wrong, something that does not want to be discovered or examined.

When pressed for an answer all the mason will say is join us and find out,,,the mystery is the bait and almost no one gets out and talks about it so it must not be that good.

I rest my case.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher

When pressed for an answer all the mason will say is join us and find out,,,the mystery is the bait and almost no one gets out and talks about it so it must not be that good.

I rest my case.


You don't get out much do you? I keep hearing claims of hundreds of ex-masons clinging to Christian teachers spouting reasons for their departure. Sounds like somebody's lying.

But in reality, what you are saying is the truth. The only way for you, or anyone to really "know" for sure is to join. Otherwise, you will spend all your time repeating the same stories and always wondering if they hold any truth at all. The only ones who know for sure are the ones who did join.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:07 AM
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I myself have seen and heard masons, shriners and others of this ilk state an adulation for lucifer.
when I pressed for an answer all I could get was that this lucifer adulation was more metaphor than actual worship of yhvh's adversary.
I have also heard from the mouths of masons talk of homosexual perversity in relation to the lodge.
I have also heard that not all lodges are exactly the same.
I get the feeling it is more about money, get more members to get more dues paid into the lodge to get better benefits endless sales pitch spiral,
Recently overheard conversations by new members who are not happy with joining, tired of the constant texts and phone calls from their "sponsors".
I do not get the feeling that anyone in there is very happy ,so glad I never really followed much in my anscestors footsteps because they like most masons have a strange weirdness to them and seemed more miserable than anything it must be a wretched existence.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 


Isn't it great that you have the freedom to say anything you like, without fear of persecution.
You have just given several slanderous statements and presented them as fact, yet you will not have to fear any repercussions. Enjoy your freedom. Our forefathers worked very hard so you could do this very thing today.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Wait, people still believe Freemasons worship Lucifer?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Wait, people still believe Freemasons worship Lucifer?


Look up two posts from yours.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100
If you can't see and understand that they are one and the same, how can you so boastfully state that your "supreme god" isn't it? Don't confuse the "popular" view of Satan with the scriptural view because otherwise you will continue claiming that they are two different 'personas'.


There is no 'scriptural view', the codification of Satan took place at the Fourth Lateran Council where it was determined that Satan was the ruler of Hell. The concept of Hell and a ruler thereof does not exist in the Hebrew Bible. Stop inventing things.


He is a liar and murderer from the beginning and both the Hebrew works...


In the Hebrew Bible ha-satan (small 'ha') is a job, not a being. In Christian mythology Satan is elevated to the position of a challenger to the Divine. Please cite references to where the Ancient Hebrews believed otherwise, your opinion is not fact.


Freemasons, in their big Olylymic production, told those with eyes to see who exactly they worship. Despite the inordinate amount of flames and destruction promised to this world, you still feel the need to appear saintly. As I watched that giant square and compass framing the rising fiery Phoenix, I couldn't help feeling sorrowful that so many former Christian men have betrayed not only themselves as Israel but that they will continue denying Christ Jesus until the bitter end. As you watch the coming destruction of your fellow countrymen, will you still keep up this charade?


I did not watch the Olypics as it does not interest me. If you decided to take away that it was some sort of Masonic ritual that is your perogative. Masonic ritual is published online, feel free to cite the specific portions that have to do with what you feel your witnessed.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
This masonic light is a lie and a light of shame it is kept under wraps and not displayed or shared proudly so that all can benefit therefore it is easy to deduce there is something wrong, something that does not want to be discovered or examined.


Masonic ritual has been published for close to three centuries, the only thing that we will not discuss in public is the passwords and grips. Does not knowing any of these words and handshakes make you feel inadequate?





edit on 13-9-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer (except when I get him some)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I'm not a Freemason (I could admit it if I was, as I've known Freemasons who have openly admitted their membership), but I certainly know a lot about it. I like to read.


I don't necessarily agree, personally, on the kind of secrecy and exclusivity the Freemasons have, but who am I to say they shouldn't have those things? I would just, myself, rather be as transparent as possible to others, without secrets.

But, what I do know about Freemasons is this: It seems like a lot of long, rather dull rituals (or whatever they're called, no offense), and it seems to boil down to a bunch of guys getting together for different innocuous reasons. The anti-Mason people seems to distort these rituals and things into making them appear "Satanic" or whatever they believe.

Well, having read a lot on Freemasonry (most of which I would never talk about in public, having respect for a group that prefers secrecy), and about it's history, and also having read anti-Masonic literature, I can pretty much say that any claims of evil intentions by the Freemasons is ridiculous. They seem to loosely connect dots, pick and choose, and overall make up facts to support their theories.

Unless someone can show me real, tangible evidence that Freemasons worship Satan, I'll apologize now. It's a load of hoo-ha-ha.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
I don't necessarily agree, personally, on the kind of secrecy and exclusivity the Freemasons have...


There is no exclusivity, nearly everyone can join some form of Masonry or another and learn pratically the same thing as anyone else. There are groups that allow men, women, or both, there are even obdiences that allow atheists. The only preclusion I can think of is convicted felons.


Well, having read a lot on Freemasonry (most of which I would never talk about in public, having respect for a group that prefers secrecy...


The secrecy aspect only applies to parts of the ritual and even this has been published for as long as Masonry has been in existence.




edit on 13-9-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer (except when I get him some)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
The concept of Satan pre-dates Christianity to Judaism. We see in the Book of Genesis where Jacob wrestles with an Angel - The Jewish explanation is that Jacob was wrestling with Satan. The concept of Satan is much older than Christianity.


A Few Things:

1. The "Angel" he wrestled with is more likely interpreted as his own God, not as Satan.

2. "Satan" as a concept is diametrically opposed when viewed through the separate lenses of Christianity and Judaism. They do not correlate at all. In one, He works for Yahweh, in the other, He is seen as trying to overthrow.

3. The being that has become known as "Satan" (not Lucifer - these are completely different) predates Judaism enormously - He can be traced back to the Sumerian pantheon - the God Ningishzidda, known to the Egyptians as Anpu (Anubis). A Cthonic deity, demonized by Judaism and Christianity.

4. I know this because I actually do worship Him - and I am not a mason. But I am a professor.

Wait, does that mean that all professors also worship my God?
Or do the sweeping generalizations only come out in regards to Masons?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Would it make more sense if you read it like this????

"LOOSE-IF-FAR"...

Hence... "Weights & Measures" ???

Weighed: "How Much Can You Handle?"

Measured: "How Far Can You Go?"

They loose him to see if you are who you... ???

So... yes and no.
When suggested that Freemason is of Lucifarian conceit... then yes!
When suggested that they are Lucifarian belief(s)... No! They are not!



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
3. The being that has become known as "Satan" (not Lucifer - these are completely different) predates Judaism enormously - He can be traced back to the Sumerian pantheon - the God Ningishzidda, known to the Egyptians as Anpu (Anubis). A Cthonic deity, demonized by Judaism and Christianity.


Thank you. Nothing is more ignorant then when people ascribe their own viewpoint (that the Christian Satan somehow exisited for the Jews) when it is obviously not so. The modern Christian concept of Satan was not codified until 1213.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by ManjushriPrajna
 


I can appreciate your position.

I don't intend to try to make you a member, or convince you to join, but I would like to explain a little bit about our boring rituals.

If a man has a spiritual path he wishes to follow, he usually looks for a direction to go. Freemasonry is one path on that journey. The rituals all teach valuable moral lessons to the individual and have done so for hundreds of years. To the individual, the experience can either be boring, or amazing. He might spend years trying to learn all he can about masonic teachings or he might never bother to visit a lodge again. It all depends on the individual.

Please don't worry about offending by discussing the "secrets". But I will explain why they exist.

Long, long ago, in a land where there were no building contractors and heavy equipment, there were men who knew ancient "magic". They were called freemasons. The magic that they knew, enabled them to build strong, perfect structures that would stand the test of time. They kept these secrets to protect their jobs. If everyone had access to their "magic" then everyone could duplicate their work. So they adopted ways of identification so they could know of someone they met in a new town was in fact, a member of their guild and they could discuss their "magic" together.

Now, what was their magic? Math. More especially, geometry. They learned how to use geometry to make a perfect square, circle, or rectangle. They could duplicate a drawing perfectly and make it go from an idea to a building you could touch. Today, what they knew is junior high math. But back then, it was worth killing over.

We as speculative freemasons, use the symbolism and terminology to teach moral lessons to help a man become a better man. lessons that help him make better decisions in his daily endeavors. Things like treating people squarely in business, and keeping our selves within due bounds of all mankind. We don't build buildings, we teach ways of building better men.

I hope that wasn't too boring.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Well done lad...



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by shamanix2012
 

When you say it involves the Masonic fraternity. Plus, maybe I am reading it wrong, but you are hearing this from another source and so it is not first hand information; it is hearsay not evidence.


If you think the masons are immune to infiltration by the dark side, you haven't thought hard enough.

I never said we were immune from corrupt individuals, every orchard has a few bad apples. But, we have a pretty good system set up to slow any corruption and weed it out.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 

Where in the Bible is "Samael" referenced?

Wasn't the "tau" the symbol put upon the foreheads of God's select, the Chosen?

Actually the Morning Star is a reference to the star which preceded the rising Sun. Lodges are situated due East and West, but the entrance is usually the West. Note, not all Lodges are physically situated due East and West due to building location, structure, and availability of space.


And this hatred towards Bill S is misdirected as he was indeed a 32nd degree mason who was to honored as a knight of freemasonry, clearly he was highly respected until defecting.

Maybe I've missed it in all his ramblings, but I have yet to see him produce any documentation proving any of his affiliations.


Freemasonry is connected to wicca through the Templar's in Scottland and their association with the 'green man' (as seen in Rosalyn Chapel).

Robert Cooper wrote an excellent book called the Rosslyn Hoax. You seem to be mixing up historical fiction with historical fact.


Testaments against the Templars (freemasonry's forerunners) showed the Templars to have head effigies in their temples which is heavily associated with Grail legacy.

Again, you're posing romanticized theories as fact when they are not. Plus, it is pretty well believed that the accusations against the Templars by the corrupt, tyrannical French Crown were made up (as the original accusations were the same ones thrown against a previous Pope by the same King).


The 1st degree of initiation has a mason-to-be dress up as a heretic would be prior to being burned at the stake during the inquisition, what would be the point of this if not to link the Craft to other interpretations of the Craft?

Actually the initiatory garb is emblematic of destitution. We reference this when we perpetuate a lesson of charity and kindness to the new Brother.


You would know this if you ever read commonly available literature written by Masons such as The Hiram Key or The Temple and the Lodge.

Ugh...Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas took a great deal of liberties with their interpretations and OPINIONS.


Or you could always reference Albert Pike and his declaration that Masons worship Lucifer in Morals and Dogma

Nowhere does he say we worship Lucifer. He only makes a mention of his opinion of Lucifer. Maybe you should actually read the entirety of the quote instead of the cut-and-paste jobs you see frequently around the Internet.


or masonry's greatest philosopher, Manly P Hall, who stated that when one masters masonry the seething energies of Lucifer are at their command.

Who wrote the book decades prior to his joining the group.


I propose that after discussion with several ATS masons and those in the two major metropolis cities of my state that most masons do not know jack S about the history or meaning of their symbols, rituals, or history and so their testimony is not very reliable.

This is true to a point, but the failure belongs with the lack of education programs provided the Fraternity. Luckily there are pushes for reform that are occurring and things are changing to bring about a better education program in Lodges.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 

Usually after Lodge I go grab a beer at the sports bar next door.

Nice verse. Anyone can quote Scripture.

The light we put out is not a lie and it shines in every good member, whether in or outside the Lodge. If a Mason takes the lessons to heart and betters himself, he will be better his community. We are obligated or concerned to appease those who wish us not to be private, but we do plenty to help those around us.

Your case is weak, invalid, and not based on reason, but irrational beliefs and bigotry.

reply to post by partycrasher
 

Of course you have.



I have also heard from the mouths of masons talk of homosexual perversity in relation to the lodge.

Such as?





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