Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

 


Ignoring the obvious mistranslation of St. Jerome's 4th and 5th century conversions of the Vetus Latina and the Hebrew Bible and the subsequent misuses by Milton and Aligiehri the knowledgeable person will conclude that the word Lucifer does not refer to Satan but the planet Venus.

All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.

Neither does Satan, who besides being a purely Christian concept, cannot, in the historical context, be considered a 'Supreme Being'. The historical Satan of Christian mythos was created by God and is therefore subordinate to God and defacto, not 'Supreme'. Letting common sense prevail the intelligent contemplator of this topic would realize that there can only be one Supreme Being if one deigns to believe in such; only one ominscient, ominpotent and omnipresent creator of the Universe. To imply that Satan (Lucifer) is somehow on par with God is to argue that God is neither all-powerful nor supreme.

This would imply a situation where God is neither omnipotent nor unique and not worthy of the respect and adoration due to God by every Mason. It therefore becomes quite obvious why any Mason obligated to believe in God would not and could not call God by the name Lucifer or Satan.

 


Exactly...

The fundie concept of a schizophrenic god, fighting some cosmic battle with itself is ludicrous in the extreme...and calls into question the adherence and glorifying of such an avowed all-powerful entity, under this parameter (one must question the definition, then, of All powerful, omniscient, omnipotent, creator of all that is seen and unseen, applied so liberally by fundies of any flavour...ie...how All powerful do you think it is?!)

The fundie concept of 'original sin' installs the necessity for 'salvation' from, said sin...and what follows from this psychological track is the need for redemption...enter the redeemer (and of course 'there can be only one')...indeed all others are pretenders or agents of the enemy of the ALL POWERFUL GOD...who created the enemy!

Ridiculous in the extreme...

Satan...is a fabrication to abrogate personal responsibility...a psychological exercise in blame shifting...

A99




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
If you are a "high-level mason" as your avatar suggests you know Pike wore the sign of Baphomet around his neck and freemasonry is Baal worship plain and simple. Unless you're not "high-level" then you probably don't know.


Is that so? Maybe you can post a picture of Pike with this symbol. Do think this will be another fail like you trying to prove that Pike worshipped Baphomet by quoting Morals and Dogma?

And why should I believe in Baal like you do?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by akushla99
The fundie concept of 'original sin' installs the necessity for 'salvation' from, said sin...

Satan...is a fabrication to abrogate personal responsibility...


You hit the nail on the head with both points. It is all about guilt and control.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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g-d is a pagan deity because the vowels in ancient hebrew were not written until much later as masoretic pointing no one alive todays knows if g-d was pronounced gud, god or gad but we do know g-d means luck and if you are an OT fan then you may be aware of the verse stating that a drink offering was not to be made to gad ( which was also the name of one of jacob israel's sons) the israelites did not worship this or use this as their deities name.

Now does the mason who reveres god also revere jesus as their god openly in a lodge? or is this avoided so as not to upset the non jesus fearing members and is this not a groundwork for a 1 world religion where all gods are 1 and one god is all therefore making it more appealing to all men ( also a great sales plan )

As per the yezidi, shaitan is one of their deities and taus malak, the peacock angel may be the original lucifer inspiration as the peacock opens its tail it may resemble an emblazened rainbow of color and it may have reminded people of the sun with its radiant rays. Incidentaly the rebellion of the angel in this yezidic story is that the angel was commanded to worship man but the angel refused and said it would only worship its creator because man was just a talking monkey.

Masons like to imagine that because most of the signers of the constitution the masons claim as their own, they feel that they as individuals were personally responsible for our freedoms - not the case.

Also masons this question is directed to you- do homosexuals join lodges? can a satanist join a lodge ? a luciferian can they join also? can a kitten killer join ? child molesters are they banned ? and how much sway do these masons have over other masons at the lodge? masons claim and i believe it to be true that they are trying to reform the lodge-who had the power to help sway the lodge to do that? or was that just another sales tactic to make the lodge more palatable to a wider group of people? will a more palatable lodge also make it a better tool to be acceptable to more men just like a 1 world religion?

Just putting all of that out there for thought so the thoughtless have something to think about before joining your secret clique.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by shamanix2012
I bring it up because I experienced it first hand, and there is a possibility that SOME masons do worship Lucifer, Satan, ( the name doesn't matter, their actions do ). I wasn't trying to offend you, just putting another perspective here.


Then they would not be considered Masons owing to the fact that they lied when applying for membership as by the defintion I gave you Lucifer is not supreme and cannot be thought of as a Supreme Being.


In my view it would count as they're not required to share your definition. It's up to the individual to interpret. A couple other definitions are "a being who finds light through darkness" - they could look at themselves as that supreme being.

Another definition is, it could represent the light of existence, as in "the word" ...as in thoth, as in the language and number system as in atum and as in illusion.

To me, Satan represents the negative/dark and lucifer as said, light from dark...venus with a penis.

I've met a mason who claimed to worship "father Satan" He said it was following the laws of nature. He was decent towards me. I would guess that for the most part maysuns worship themselves and respect both polarities how they individually see fit while maintaining whatever group aims they may have.

Interesting thread.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


God is supreme. He created the order of things. There is an Angel of Light and an Angel of Darkness. This document from the Dead Sea Scrolls clears it up. LINK. A person will choose the Light or the Darkness by will. The will to receive and give over the will to take is the Angel of Light. The will to take over the will to give is Darkness. There is no paradox and there is no reason to explain it any other way. Free will is in balance between the light and darkness to allow us to choose over our many lives.

The only way to be sure if a person is from either side is not being a Freemason. We can clearly see character of large groups of people by seeing their will done in public. God already knows the hear of everyone. It's less important for us to know the judgment of God and more important to judge ourselves by the light of truth.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.[d] 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

edit on 13-9-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
Now does the mason who reveres god also revere jesus as their god openly in a lodge? or is this avoided so as not to upset the non jesus fearing members


No specific religion (or their name for Diety) is mentioned by name.


...and is this not a groundwork for a 1 world religion where all gods are 1 and one god is all therefore making it more appealing to all men ( also a great sales plan )


How could it when there is no push for anyone to abandon their their religion of choice?


Also masons this question is directed to you- do homosexuals join lodges?


Yes, no one asks you about your sexual orientation.


can a satanist join a lodge ?


I thought the Original Post was quite clear one this.


a luciferian can they join also?


See above


...can a kitten killer join ?


There is no question in my jurisdiction that asks, 'have you ever killed a kitten?' Although I think people who abuse animals are one of the lowest forms of person.


child molesters are they banned ?


Yes.


and how much sway do these masons have over other masons at the lodge?


None, only the respective Grand Lodge can govern lodges in its jurisdiction.


masons claim and i believe it to be true that they are trying to reform the lodge-who had the power to help sway the lodge to do that?


Each Mason's vote in lodge is equal.


Most of your questions are very off topic and although I answered them I would prefer that you post any follow up questions elsewhere as I do not want to derail my thread further.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by akushla99
The fundie concept of 'original sin' installs the necessity for 'salvation' from, said sin...

Satan...is a fabrication to abrogate personal responsibility...


You hit the nail on the head with both points. It is all about guilt and control.


It has always astounded me how obvious this is, and yet, the psychology of this thoroughly escapes fundies of any flavour...

If you truly believe in an All powerful, omnicient, omnipotent, creator of all that is seen and unseen, but then, INSULT (or call into question) this All pervading creator...by insisting that it would create a being capable of surpassing itself somehow...your concept of an All powerful, omniscient, omnipotent, creator of all that is is seen and unseen, is called into question...

A99



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThingKing
In my view it would count as they're not required to share your definition. It's up to the individual to interpret. A couple other definitions are "a being who finds light through darkness" - they could look at themselves as that supreme being.


When joining the lodge the question asked to you is quite clear, 'Do you believe in a Supreme Being'? There is no vagueness about the question. By definition there can be only one Supreme Being and the historical Satan of Christianity is certainly not one.


Another definition is, it could represent the light of existence, as in "the word" ...as in thoth, as in the language and number system as in atum and as in illusion.


Again, is Thoth thought of as the Creator of the Universe?


To me, Satan represents the negative/dark and lucifer as said, light from dark...venus with a penis.


This viewpoint would not be suitable for Masonry as what you describe is not a situation where there is a Supreme Being.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
God is supreme.


You should have stopped here. But, being that you like to blather on non-sequitorally, you cannot help yourself....


The only way to be sure if a person is from either side is not being a Freemason. We can clearly see character of large groups of people by seeing their will done in public. God already knows the hear of everyone. It's less important for us to know the judgment of God and more important to judge ourselves by the light of truth.


Says the guy who decries opponents of marital rape, thinks child raping fathers should make their daughters keep their 'gift' babies if they become pregnant and invents portions of Masonic ritual to support his religious zealotry. Your character is on full display.

Stop derailing my thread with your banality and inanity.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
God is supreme.


You should have stopped here. But, being that you like to blather on non-sequitorally, you cannot help yourself....


The only way to be sure if a person is from either side is not being a Freemason. We can clearly see character of large groups of people by seeing their will done in public. God already knows the hear of everyone. It's less important for us to know the judgment of God and more important to judge ourselves by the light of truth.


Says the guy who decries opponents of marital rape, thinks child raping fathers should make their daughters keep their 'gift' babies if they become pregnant and invents portions of Masonic ritual to support his religious zealotry. Your character is on full display.

Stop derailing my thread with your banality and inanity.


"The only way to be sure if a person is from either side is not being a Freemason."

That's a garden variety sentence. That was my fault. What I should have said is Freemason or not, the heart is what tells the truth.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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As far as I have been led to believe (through my research), not all masons worship satan/lucifer (and are in it for the perks), however, a true 'bloodline' mason, will. One said "lucifer is the light, and the light is good". The aim of satan is not for himself to be worshipped, rather, that God will not be worshipped.

When Jesus was tempted by satan, what did he offer him? All of the cities of the world, all of the riches, to be king of the world. So if satan has the power to hand over every country, to ONE man, everyone below will be their servant. Satan has promised a select few people that they will rule the world with complete control.

Even if you don't worship satan, doesn't mean you don't work for him.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 



Says the guy who decries opponents of marital rape, thinks child raping fathers should make their daughters keep their 'gift' babies if they become pregnant and invents portions of Masonic ritual to support his religious zealotry. Your character is on full display.

Stop derailing my thread with your banality and inanity.


Spoken from the heart.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by MrTheOutspoken
 


Exactly, but by the overwhealming number of mindless stars the masons get on these forums don't expect them to listen or take your points into consideration, they can only think in one direction.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by MrTheOutspoken
As far as I have been led to believe (through my research), not all masons worship satan/lucifer (and are in it for the perks), however, a true 'bloodline' mason, will.


Seeing that you have done this research maybe you can list a few examples of what a 'true bloodline Mason' actually is. It would also be helpful if you identified what lodges they were/are members of.


One said "lucifer is the light, and the light is good".


Which one was that? Please cite the quote.


Even if you don't worship satan, doesn't mean you don't work for him.


You can not work for a fairy tale.

I always find it comical how Satan-believers accuse others of worshipping/following/obeying something that accused person does not even believe exists.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
Exactly, but by the overwhealming number of mindless stars the masons get on these forums don't expect them to listen or take your points into consideration, they can only think in one direction.


Says the guy who joined two days ago.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Yes I joined 2 days ago, and you prove my point, putting post count on a higher pedestal than reason, by all means keep those EYES WIDE SHUT sir.

You can't even agree or reply to the point that the masons are made up of men, which as history has proven, are corruptible.
edit on 13-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
Yes I joined 2 days ago, and you prove my point, putting post count on a higher pedestal than reason, by all means keep those EYES WIDE SHUT sir.


Which was preceded by your inane comment about stars. Try to address the topic and not go off on irrelevant tangents regarding the website's features and functions.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
If you are a "high-level mason" as your avatar suggests you know Pike wore the sign of Baphomet around his neck and freemasonry is Baal worship plain and simple. Unless you're not "high-level" then you probably don't know.


Is that so? Maybe you can post a picture of Pike with this symbol.


LINK



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by shamanix2012
Yes I joined 2 days ago, and you prove my point, putting post count on a higher pedestal than reason, by all means keep those EYES WIDE SHUT sir.


Which was preceded by your inane comment about stars. Try to address the topic and not go off on irrelevant tangents regarding the website's features and functions.


And your comment about me joining 2 days ago was relevant how? The intelligence here is amazing.

My comment about stars was relevant if you include the entire post, not the first line lol.... selective reading much?
edit on 13-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: (no reason given)





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