Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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Ha-satan is not even remotely close to the Christian version of Satan which was codified in the 13th century.

Judaism preceded Christianity, my friend. Satan is a Jewish concept in origin, not Christian. Christianity may have distorted the concept, yes - agreed, but the origin is still Jewish.

If you change the meaning of an English word, it doesn't change the very fact that the origin of the word is still English. The origin of the concept of Satan is Jewish, not Christian.



In Jewish tradition ha-satan ('the accuser', 'the adversary') is not a proper noun (capitalized) it is a common noun (un-capitilized) and thus does not represent a sentient being, it is a role given by God.


In the Book of Genesis, Jacob wrestled with a sentient being. According to the Jewish Sages, that sentient being was Satan.



No, the concept of a fallen angel that rules in Hell was never part of the Jewish religion. Please cite references if you feel otherwise.


Again, you are giving a Christianized interpretation of the word, and not its original Jewish meaning.



In Biblical Judaism nothing could be removed from God's grace. There is no concept of 'falling' away from God, God is completely omnipotent and his angels, unlike man, do not have free will. This was God's gift to man and was not shared by the angels.


Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never even mentioned the free will of angels.



The concept Christian concept of Satan, as borrowed by the Mulims, is nearly the same, this is the one I refer to as it is the only one to refer to.


Thanks for the clarification and specificity. Finally.




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ThingKing
In my view it would count as they're not required to share your definition. It's up to the individual to interpret. A couple other definitions are "a being who finds light through darkness" - they could look at themselves as that supreme being.


When joining the lodge the question asked to you is quite clear, 'Do you believe in a Supreme Being'? There is no vagueness about the question. By definition there can be only one Supreme Being and the historical Satan of Christianity is certainly not one.


Another definition is, it could represent the light of existence, as in "the word" ...as in thoth, as in the language and number system as in atum and as in illusion.


Again, is Thoth thought of as the Creator of the Universe?


To me, Satan represents the negative/dark and lucifer as said, light from dark...venus with a penis.


This viewpoint would not be suitable for Masonry as what you describe is not a situation where there is a Supreme Being.



Agreed there can only be one, there is only one.

. "Is thoth thought of as creator of the universe" ....Yes

Certainly Satan couldn't be to you, though there may be some who believe differently. My belief?... I wrote the bible, i am thoth, i am supreme, i was the first mayson.. i am the last too. ...so sayeth the ruler of Bathos.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
LINK


Two things.

First, you linked a portrait. You do know the difference between a painting and a photograph, right? There are countless pictures of Pike, show one that depicts him with the a 'symbol of Baphomet'.

Secondly, the symbol Pike is wearing has nothing to do with Baphomet, it is a Salem Cross. Please show us an image of Baphomet with the same cross.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
And your comment about me joining 2 days ago was relevant how?


To indicate the irrelevance of your comments. You opted to speak about the star feature and not address the topic.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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I wonder why masons are so worried what the masses think about them, if they are so pure and innocent whats with the endless threads claiming they do not worship this and that, bla bla bla if you are so sure of yourselves then you would not care what others think. Your constant need to defend yourselves over and over reminds me of how the media hammered it over and over and over.... islamic terrorists did 9-11!!! TERROR TERROR!!!

An innocent man will have enough confidence and faith in himself to leave it be, its not like you are on trial awaiting a death sentence.....



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by shamanix2012
And your comment about me joining 2 days ago was relevant how?


To indicate the irrelevance of your comments. You opted to speak about the star feature and not address the topic.




Once again you opt to include from my posts only that which supports your agenda, mr mason.

I only mentioned it a thousand times...... can you at least agree that MEN CAN BE CORRUPTED???? AND THAT MASONS ARE MADE UP OF MEN?

Sometimes caps are required.
edit on 13-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: I suck at grammar, so kill me



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Judaism preceded Christianity, my friend. Satan is a Jewish concept in origin, not Christian. Christianity may have distorted the concept, yes - agreed, but the origin is still Jewish.


There is no concept of a fallen angel who challenges God in Jewish mythology, it is anethema to their religion.


If you change the meaning of an English word, it doesn't change the very fact that the origin of the word is still English. The origin of the concept of Satan is Jewish, not Christian.


The name is taken from Hebrew (and then capitilized) while the concept is purely a Christian one.


In the Book of Genesis, Jacob wrestled with a sentient being. According to the Jewish Sages, that sentient being was Satan.


Really? Which ones?


Satan is a character that appears in the belief systems of many religions, including Christianity and Islam. In Judaism "satan" is not a sentient being but a metaphor for the evil inclination – the yetzer hara – that exists in every person and tempts us to do wrong. source



For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, or a Good Gd who is in eternal opposition to an Evil Gd, is not monotheism. -Rabbi Stuart Federow source



The Christians don't understand how an angel of G-d can try to seduce people to disobey G-d, so they came to the unsupported conclusion that Satan must have rebelled against G-d.-Rabbi Tovia Singer. source



Judaism does not believe in the popular concept of the devil, which the dualistic notion that there is another power in the world rivaling that of God. Judaism does believe, however, that each person was created with both an urge towards goodness (yetzer hatov) and an urge towards evil (yetzer hara). But note that this is an internal urge rather than an external force. -Rabbi Krishef source


Getting the picture yet? I can link sources all day that prove the point the Jews NEVER had the same concept of Christians regarding a fallen angel who challenges God.




Again, you are giving a Christianized interpretation of the word, and not its original Jewish meaning.


I gave its original Jewish meaning which was not capitilized meaning it was not a proper noun.


Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never even mentioned the free will of angels.


There are no words to put in anyones mouth. If you take the tact that Satan challenges God then he has free will which in the Jewish religion was never ascribe to angels, only man had free will.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
Salem Cross/Baphomet


Sorry, no pictures of Baphomet wearing a Salem Cross on that site. Maybe you can post the one you have.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Another great thread on this.

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
I wonder why masons are so worried what the masses think about them...


Because I get tired of morons accusing me of worshipping something that I do not believe in and they think is causing all of the worlds problems, i.e. Satan.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
I only mentioned it a thousand times...... can you at least agree that MEN CAN BE CORRUPTED???? AND THAT MASONS ARE MADE UP OF MEN?


Anyone can be corrupted, I never posted otherwise and this is not the premise of the topic. What does that have to do with believing in and worshipping Satan?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
Salem Cross/Baphomet


Sorry, no pictures of Baphomet wearing a Salem Cross on that site. Maybe you can post the one you have.


You are clearly a dis-info agent for the masons or are such a low level member that you honestly don't know the truth yet. Everything I posted was truth but you will never admit it so with that I bid you goodnight.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
Another great thread on this.

link


Sorry again, citing O.T.O. imagery has nothing to do with Masonry. You need to learn how to differentiate between Masonry and other groups.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I find it interesting how all your rituals exclude the NAME by which you make proclamation to your G-d. That is there is never mentioned the name of the G-d you pay homage to. I guess it's left to what ever you choose to believe in the moment eh. All seems rather G-dless and indescript so as to excuse yourselves with all manner of man made justifications to defend that which is painfully obvious.

Oh and the term 'worshipfull master' isn't a dead giveaway or anything!

Now what were you saying?

edit on 13-9-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
You are clearly a dis-info agent for the masons or are such a low level member that you honestly don't know the truth yet. Everything I posted was truth but you will never admit it so with that I bid you goodnight.


Really? Ad hominems because you cannot prove a point? Post the picture, not links to rediculous websites that try to link everything to everything.

You clearly do not know how to distinguish between evidence and a fabricated reality in which you currently reside where you can throw up random links and expect it to be taken at face value as some form of evidence. If you have a picture of Pike wearing a 'Baphomet symbol' then post it. If you think that a Salem Cross is a symbol of Baphomet then post a image of Baphomet wearing one. Linking a group that existed long after Pike died and trying to tie him to it and its symbolism is beyond ludicris.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Egyptia
I find it interesting how all your rituals exclude the NAME by which you make proclamation to your G-d.


Being that we are in English-speaking lodges we call God, God. What else should someone be calling God?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by shamanix2012
I only mentioned it a thousand times...... can you at least agree that MEN CAN BE CORRUPTED???? AND THAT MASONS ARE MADE UP OF MEN?


Anyone can be corrupted, I never posted otherwise and this is not the premise of the topic. What does that have to do with believing in and worshipping Satan?


I never accused YOU of worshipping satan, but thanks for finally confirming that men can be corrupted...... and you see this is my point, the freemasons are a group of men and some may be worshipping unclean spirits.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
I never accused YOU of worshipping satan, but thanks for finally confirming that men can be corrupted...... and you see this is my point, the freemasons are a group of men and some may be worshipping unclean spirits.


Then they are no longer Masons as explained by my Original Post. You cannot be a Mason and believe that anything other than God is worthy of worship.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by TheGreatDivider
You are clearly a dis-info agent for the masons or are such a low level member that you honestly don't know the truth yet. Everything I posted was truth but you will never admit it so with that I bid you goodnight.


Really? Ad hominems because you cannot prove a point? Post the picture, not links to rediculous websites that try to link everything to everything.

You clearly do not know how to distinguish between evidence and a fabricated reality in which you currently reside where you can throw up random links and expect it to be taken at face value as some form of evidence. If you have a picture of Pike wearing a 'Baphomet symbol' then post it. If you think that a Salem Cross is a symbol of Baphomet then post a image of Baphomet wearing one. Linking a group that existed long after Pike died and trying to tie him to it and its symbolism is beyond ludicris.


If you don't believe a painting of Pike wearing one(why would they paint his portrait with it if it wasn't there?) you clearly won't believe a painting of Baphomet wearing one either, obviously I don't have a photo of him... maybe you do?

Goodbye





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