Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

originally posted by: Sacri
Taking into the consideration the oaths that one must undertake to protect fellow brothers, It appears uncanny that the true history could ever be revealed.

What specific part of our oaths would preclude discussing the history? Holding a Brother's confidence does not preclude discussing Masonry as a group.

Which version of the Bible ?

Even a change in pronunciation of certain words gives an entire new meaning to that word...

Not seeing the relevance. They are universal precepts because they translate to every language and society and are understood to be fundamental ways to philosophically lead one's life.

a reply to: ArmyOfNobunaga

Thank you for your contribution and the comments regarding your grandfather.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the pentagram is a symbol of higher knowledge....that is what the worship = knowledge.

the 5 pointed star represents a star gate.

a reply to: Thurisaz

afterthought... in many texts... Satan/Lucifer (light bearer) illuminated others by exposing untruths and many People who were illuminated from the dark then created their own groups, such as the Masons.

Who were the Masons? Historically they were the building blocks of society. Where did Math originate from? Egypt... the Egyptians were scrupulous with measurement, issues of astronomy and math for example.

Masons were (historically) masters of their skill and intelligent.

originally posted by: Thurisaz
the pentagram is a symbol of higher knowledge....that is what the worship = knowledge.

the 5 pointed star represents a star gate.

A five pointed star equating to knowledge or a stargate is not taught in Masonry.

The only 'star' which features prominently is the Blazing Star which is equated to Divine Providence and is usually six or eight sided.

originally posted by: Thurisaz
afterthought... in many texts... Satan/Lucifer (light bearer) illuminated others by exposing untruths and many People who were illuminated from the dark then created their own groups, such as the Masons.

Even if we were to take this at face value it still does not elevate either one to the status of a Supreme Being and does not disprove the Original Post.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

of course... because it is knowledge. Masons were skilled Masters of their trade and knowledge in that era was restricted to an elite group.

Knowledge started becoming available to the public around the 1500s. Prior to that, the Church Head of the Country owned all knowledge. The general public were kept dumb, so like the Black Smiths, the Masons had access to 'secret knowledge'.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


yes it is. It is measurement and Mason's rely on Math = 33 Degree etc. The levels.

You can't build a Church/design a city if you don't have the knowledge of Math/area etc....

a reply to: Thurisaz

I would not say the Church owned all of it. A good deal was protected by the trade guilds a s a means of ensuring their existence and controlling who they disseminated that information to. This is the basis for Operative Masonry.

originally posted by: Thurisaz
yes it is. It is measurement and Mason's rely on Math = 33 Degree etc. The levels.

You can't build a Church/design a city if you don't have the knowledge of Math/area etc....

The 33rd degree did not exist until the 1800s so was not relevant to the founding of Masonry or it's ritual. Additionally, the Scottish Rite degrees are only relevant to members of that side order and have not bearing on the majority of Masons and the ritual they participate in.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Knowledge is power. Those with more knowledge than others held the power and did not share it.

They kept it for themselves. Prior to Germany inventing the printing press in the 1500s, information was not accessible to the general public. The majority of the general public did not even know how to read or write. AND those that could read were restricted to what was available to read. The religious organisations(Govt's) or Monarchs owned the knowledge.

so the Masons were privy and had access to 'secret knowledge' and started their own very quiet club.

using symbols etc.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

are you trying to tell me that a measurement of an angle that equates to 33 degrees did not exist prior to 1800s?

Proof of Math, 33 Degrees is visible throughout the Egyptian rule...Pyramids for eg.

a reply to: Thurisaz

Pythagoras ?? 570 BC – c. 495 BC

The Pythagoream Theory... some of the Greek/Roman mathematicians around that era.

Prior to that... measurement stemmed from Egypt.

oh what about the Golden Ratio?

The golden ratio has fascinated Western intellectuals of diverse interests for at least 2,400 years. According to Mario Livio:

Some of the greatest mathematical minds of all ages, from Pythagoras and Euclid in ancient Greece, through the medieval Italian mathematician Leonardo of Pisa and the Renaissance astronomer Johannes Kepler, to present-day scientific figures such as Oxford physicist Roger Penrose, have spent endless hours over this simple ratio and its properties. But the fascination with the Golden Ratio is not confined just to mathematicians. Biologists, artists, musicians, historians, architects, psychologists, and even mystics have pondered and debated the basis of its ubiquity and appeal. In fact, it is probably fair to say that the Golden Ratio has inspired thinkers of all disciplines like no other number in the history of mathematics.[11]

Ancient Greek mathematicians first studied what we now call the golden ratio because of its frequent appearance in geometry. The division of a line into "extreme and mean ratio" (the golden section) is important in the geometry of regular pentagrams and pentagons. Euclid's Elements (Greek: Στοιχεῖα) provides the first known written definition of what is now called the golden ratio: "A straight line is said to have been cut in extreme and mean ratio when, as the whole line is to the greater segment, so is the greater to the lesser."[12] Euclid explains a construction for cutting (sectioning) a line "in extreme and mean ratio", i.e., the golden ratio.[13] Throughout the Elements, several propositions (theorems in modern terminology) and their proofs employ the golden ratio.[14]

The golden ratio is explored in Luca Pacioli's book De divina proportione of 1509.

The first known approximation of the (inverse) golden ratio by a decimal fraction, stated as "about 0.6180340", was written in 1597 by Michael Maestlin of the University of Tübingen in a letter to his former student Johannes Kepler.[15]

Since the 20th century, the golden ratio has been represented by the Greek letter φ (phi, after Phidias, a sculptor who is said to have employed it) or less commonly by τ (tau, the first letter of the ancient Greek root τομή—meaning cut).[1][16]

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Secret/Sacred geometry is another branch of math.

Masons who believe in the Prime Mover can also without contradiction worship Lucifer,
They are creation on 2 different levels.

Namaste.

originally posted by: WiseThinker
Masons who believe in the Prime Mover can also without contradiction worship Lucifer,
They are creation on 2 different levels.

Namaste.

1. who is the "prime mover" ?

2. how can anyone "worship" a term that is at best a mistranslation?

Lucifer is not a being or an entity. It's a mistake.

a reply to: network dude

1. The Prime Mover is not a who, nor is it an it, it just is

2. And I agree, the word worship has alot of dogma attached to it, I mean exalt, adore, and devoted to the philosophy of Lucifer / Luciferian doctrine (Again a word that has alot of dogma attached, but the best in the context, where i'm talking about the light barer)

Namaste.

a reply to: WiseThinker

Is there a unified belief with the "Prime Mover" or is this a personal thing?

I have never heard of it before. What is it's context with the Creator? (God, the one and only)

originally posted by: Thurisaz
so the Masons were privy and had access to 'secret knowledge' and started their own very quiet club.

using symbols etc.

Agreed, however, the 'secret' knowledge was simply geometry.

originally posted by: Thurisaz
are you trying to tell me that a measurement of an angle that equates to 33 degrees did not exist prior to 1800s?

Proof of Math, 33 Degrees is visible throughout the Egyptian rule...Pyramids for eg.

No, I am saying the Scottish Rite 33rd degree was not instituted until the 1800s and is irrelevant to Masonic ritual and teaching.