Hillsborough files released: LIVE coverage

Thanks for this thread OP. I was going to post about it but saw you had done so

It's about time the truth offically came out.

Never forget the disgusting lies the Sun 'newspaper' told about Hillsborough-



To this day, Merseysiders boycott the Sun, it shows that people can come together and make a stand.

Linking a thread from ATS that i'm sure some of you may be interested in or already know exists..
The Liverpool FC Thread


I was watching the news reports from the youtube video I posted in an earlier post..
At 16:40 a man ina blue shirt appears and says..

Why didn't the FA give us the big end? They knew we had more supporters!

This is an important point to make note of.

When the crowds outside the grounds were pilling up into a grid lock, and with the match about to start with many ticket holders still outside the grounds.. The police had very little option..

The police had to open the gate or there would have been one heck of a riot. To save the police the trouble of dealing with a riot and with the need for the tax payer to cough up money to repair everything and pay for other things, they opened the gate.

With eager fans trying to get into an already packed area.. the cost of this was 96 lives...approximatley 730 injured.
So to stop a riot a decision was made...unfortunately, the wrong decision. There could have been various ways in order to prevent a riot outside. Loud hailers could have been used to alert the fans to the problem.. the mounted police could have gotten out of the way instead of being present in the middle of the mob.. which is initimidating in itself..

This looks to be a combination of different problems.. those problems lay with the police, the FA and the grounds staff. No communication, very little organization anda damned poor performance.. Only for one of the worst crimes to occur..

The cover up...


I'll post the video again

reply to post by Drezden


Probably because we were treated as animals by the police at the time.
It's all very well to comment from afar but I would suggest that you can't even imagine what going to a football match was like in the '80's unless you experienced it first-hand.
Yes, there was a fair amount of hooliganism around then (although at the time of Hillsborough it was certainly not as prevalent as several years earlier) but if you put that into perspective that involved a very small percentage of fans. However the policing at the time certainly didn't take this into account and treated everyone, regardless of age or sex, with complete disdain and disrespect.
Their only concern was to get fans into a ground as quickly as possible and off the surrounding streets and they didn't care how they did it.
It was inevitable that something like this was going to happen.

The police watchdog may be asked whether officers involved in the Hillsborough disaster should face manslaughter investigations.

The Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police, David Crompton, said the force was looking into a number of issues to refer to the Independent Police Complaints Commission

www.bbc.co.uk...

Why is the SYP policing itself? Why are the SYP considering what possible charges to bring.. This should be done by some other force IMO..

Manslaughter charges is a good start.. Along with a long list of other things such as changing the statements, faking evidence, general lies and cheating and spreading wild gossip and other falsities..

Heck...throw the book at them..

Actually my wife has just reminded me of ANOTHER cover up I know of.

A QC has made some kind of link and is looking at the miners strike.

Well when the miners strike was on I was in my last year of school and some friends went to one of the strikes.

What they said happened was that the miners were demonstrating, and for no reason the Police on horseback charged them, hitting them with their batons.

The miners were so incensed they started picking up rocks etc and throwing them back at the Police.

HOWEVER...

When it was shown on the BBC news, it showed the miners throwing the rocks first, and then the Police charging them as a consequence.

And that is an absolute FACT.

Originally posted by twfau

When a person of authority is telling you to go somewhere, it is not animalistic behaviour to follow their guide. Plus when you're in an intense, intimidating situation such as overcrowding, you're more likely to take anyone's lead to get out of it. Had the police been communicating effectively they would have known that the ground inside was already crowded, and if they weren't so inexperienced they would have known that exit gates are never used to allow people inside the ground.

I'm sorry, but you just described animalistic behaviour perfectly. The heard was following the lead of their hearder, mindlessly going where they were told. Animals follow the heard when in an intense, intimidating stuation, mindlessly...

Like Drezden said, if people in front of you aren't moving, why keep pushing and cramming in?

Originally posted by AngryAlien

I'm sorry, but you just described animalistic behaviour perfectly. The heard was following the lead of their hearder, mindlessly going where they were told. Animals follow the heard when in an intense, intimidating stuation, mindlessly...

Like Drezden said, if people in front of you aren't moving, why keep pushing and cramming in?

edit on 14-9-2012 by AngryAlien because: (no reason given)

You're fooling nobody, Kelvin.

Let it go.

reply to post by Power_Semi


I witnessed police agent provocateurs at first hand during the Miners Strike.

It was all part of the same culture and the Prime Minister of the time turned a blind eye to it all as they were enforcing her policies.
She was told of the cover up by South Yorkshire Police and she did and said nothing - that shows a wilful disregard and complete lack of concern or interest in the people she was elected to lead - all to further her own agenda's.

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Originally posted by twfau

When a person of authority is telling you to go somewhere, it is not animalistic behaviour to follow their guide. Plus when you're in an intense, intimidating situation such as overcrowding, you're more likely to take anyone's lead to get out of it. Had the police been communicating effectively they would have known that the ground inside was already crowded, and if they weren't so inexperienced they would have known that exit gates are never used to allow people inside the ground.

I'm sorry, but you just described animalistic behaviour perfectly. The heard was following the lead of their hearder, mindlessly going where they were told. Animals follow the heard when in an intense, intimidating stuation, mindlessly...

Like Drezden said, if people in front of you aren't moving, why keep pushing and cramming in?

edit on 14-9-2012 by AngryAlien because: (no reason given)

I am assuming you would not be so callous to wind others up about the needless death of 96 young people.

So here's some help in clearing up your obvious ignorance of what went on at Hillsborough. The first thing you may wish to note is that Sheffield Wednesday is not a UK public holiday.

I'm sorry, but you just described animalistic behaviour perfectly. The heard was following the lead of their hearder, mindlessly going where they were told. Animals follow the heard when in an intense, intimidating stuation, mindlessly... Like Drezden said, if people in front of you aren't moving, why keep pushing and cramming in?

reply to post by AngryAlien


people in front were moving, how else would they of got in, it is human nature and politeness to move over to make space for someone else, there was plenty of room for more, but not enough to be safe.

the problem occurs when there is very little space to move and people start falling over each other and all those behind start pushing/falling forward onto those at the front, but up to that point there was enough room for others to come in and keep moving forward and find space.

you can fit numerous people in a mini, but there is a recommended limit due to safety, it was the same with football grounds, there was room for more but if more went in it would exceed the safety limit.

it is the reason they changed to all seater grounds for leagues that attract the highest crowds, 1 person per seat then it is full, there is no chance of overcrowding people.

I disagree that the crowd were being inconsiderate or animalistic, and the willfulness to follow authority is not considered animalistic when the authority is in the right, that would be called anarchy, right?

Maybe i should explain this clearer, it was not until people reached the end of the tunnel and into the stadium that they would have realised the extent of the over-crowdedness. The people behind them at the beginning of the tunnel were under the assumption (from being told by the police) that the ground was relatively empty and to fill it quickly, so their only concern was to get in.

There are many examples that once people realised it was too crowded they tried to escape (my Dad being one of them). Many managed to climb over the fences, although as the report suggests, this prompted police to try to stop anyone doing this. As you can see from the videos, many people showed behaviours that are the complete opposite of 'animalistic': lifting people out of the crowd and into the less populated crowds; ripping up advertisement boards to use as stretchers etc.

One final point - the inability to show empathy is something I would relate to being 'animalistic' more than following instructions.

The crowd were not being rowdy, or pushing or anything else.

The rate of people getting through the turnstiles was too slow, and there was a crush developing outside the ground as more supporters arrived, and went through the first perimeter.

The Officer in charge ordered Gate C to be opened to relieve the crush, but crucially, did not order officers to direct fans to the empty pens either side of the main concourse.

I have no idea how many people here went to Hillsborough before it was changed, but that central concourse leading to the centre pens was an absolute nightmare. You can see nothing, and there is a steep slope.

Every game at Hillsborough there were stewards and Police directing fans to the side pens when the central pens became full.
Except for one match in 1989.
We all saw the results.

People can debate crowd behaviour, calling it animalistic or whatever. The fact is that through a combination of incompetence, a lack of crowd control and Police forgetting (or not caring about) their duty of care a tragedy occurred.

Anyone who tries to find excuses for how the authorities acted that day or in the intervening 23 years needs to give their head a wobble and stop window licking.

If some posters on here care so much about finding excuses for the authorities, they should read the report.
It wasn't just the police, it was every single organisation involved, from the FA to Sheffield Council, to SWFC, to the Police and the Ambulance service.
Firefighters who arrived at the scene with cutting equipment and basic first aid equipment were told by senior police officers that they weren't needed.

Some of the posters here really, really need to read the report.
I appreciate it's a long and difficult read, but it may help some here to understand that NONE of this was due to the behaviour of the Liverpool fans that day, regardless of what type of pseudo academic spin some are trying to put on it.

If things were not bad enough..
this has just surfaced..

Files detailing police cover ups over the Hillsborough disaster were given to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) 14 years ago, it has been claimed.

Alun Jones QC led a private prosecution for manslaughter against senior police officers who were in charge when 96 Liverpool fans died in April 1989.

Mr Jones said the CPS needed to explain why it did "absolutely nothing".

www.bbc.co.uk...

so, someone has been sitting on this for 14 years..
If the CPS has kept this quiet as well, then the rabbit hole runs far deeper than we previously thought.

This could end up involving several hundred people in positions of power who, by rights, should all be locked up for their part in this scandal.

The biggest official cover up that we know of to date has just got bigger...

reply to post by Extralien


I'm not sure about the biggest cover up in history - it seems to me that they just didn't give a crap.

We ALL know they don't give a crap about the prols, this just underlines the point.

reply to post by budski


maybe not the biggest cover up, but in sense it shows the types of things they are willing to cover up, i was discussing this today. it really exposes the fact that they will cover up anything that would give authorities a bad image and they care nothing for the hurt they cause people as long as they are not put in a bad light.

it begs the question, if they were willing to cover this up for so long, what else has been covered up.
the way every organization and the media acted in unity to cover it up also shows who is looking out for who, and it is not the public. each organization worked together to smear or hide the truth to help protect each others image which shows me they do not work in the peoples interest or for the people.

and we still would not know the truth if it was not for 23 years of campaigning and people not giving up. it makes me sick. all the sorry plea's i have heard this week were a last resort no choice action to save grace, all of these organizations could of come forward and said sorry or told the truth sooner but didn't and only did because of the release of documents, I see through their sorry plea's as nothing more than being sorry the truth was exposed and them trying to save their organizations image.

so maybe not the biggest cover up, but an interesting insight into the types of things that are covered up and the lengths they will go to save their image. in sense of seeing how cover ups work and what is involved this cover up is the biggest to drill home how easy it is and how it is achieved and how those that know the truth can be ignored for so long.

reply to post by lifeform11


There have been many cover ups, but they are all due to the same thing - they don't want us to know what really happens, and they will obstruct, obfuscate, lie, cheat and generally stick together because of the simple fact that because they think they are better than us, they don't really give a crap.

Until they get found out and there is a public outcry.
Then they lie some more by pretending they're sorry.

We're just the prols - get used o it.

Things are moving forwards at long last.
I must say that the amount of news coverage this is getting is rather good.. but it could be a whole lot better..
That Kate and her pictures are taking all the limelight ... distraction anyone??

"The findings of the Hillsborough Independent Panel have finally vindicated the families in their 23-year struggle to establish the truth.

"However, after truth must come justice. We have spoken today to our lawyers and taken initial advice.

"We will be petitioning the government, the attorney general, the Director of Public Prosecutions on all these various matters and these letters will be going out tomorrow".

The group is now looking at three avenues to follow up. They are urging the attorney general to apply for new inquests, demanding full and immediate investigations into criminal prosecutions and, where appropriate, applying for civil proceedings to be reopened.

Mr Hicks said: "We believe if wrongdoing, civil or criminal, has happened people should be held accountable."

He also said the families want any new inquests to take place in Liverpool and not Sheffield.

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by budski


Well said mate. Problem is; on this site and I guess any forum, is that people spout rubbish without knowing all the facts. Some people hear/read one news report and think they know everything they need to know to come on here and degrade the lives of 96 humans who only wanted to see a football match. And I guess some just like trolling.

On a positive note, there is a campaign to get 'You'll Never Walk Alone' (it's Liverpool FC's anthem for those of you who know nothing about the story) to number 1 in the UK charts. ATM it's number 2 on the Itunes chart.
It's only 99p and Gerry Marsden has said he will donate all monies to the Hillsborough charity.
Come on peeps get your wallets out!!!

reply to post by twfau


Just a word about this myth of overcrowding, taken from the original Taylor Enquiry (subsequently verified). The capacity of the Leppings Lane End at this time was 10'100 people. For this semi final, there were 9'700 people in the Leppings Lane End. In other words, it wasn't even filled to capacity. The figure 9'700 has been confirmed by various means, including a head count on surveillance footage.

The problem was the opening of a single gate that caused a crush event, ordered by Duckenfield. When Graham Kelly (FA) went to the Ops Room within minutes of the tragedy unfolding, Duckenfield told Kelly that the problem was caused by drunken fans forcing this gate (we now know that Duckenfield personally ordered this gate to be opened). In other words, Duckenfield started telling lies immediately as the tragedy unfolded, probably to cover his own back.

Originally posted by misterbungle
reply to post by budski

 

Well said mate. Problem is; on this site and I guess any forum, is that people spout rubbish without knowing all the facts. Some people hear/read one news report and think they know everything they need to know to come on here and degrade the lives of 96 humans who only wanted to see a football match. And I guess some just like trolling.

On a positive note, there is a campaign to get 'You'll Never Walk Alone' (it's Liverpool FC's anthem for those of you who know nothing about the story) to number 1 in the UK charts. ATM it's number 2 on the Itunes chart.
It's only 99p and Gerry Marsden has said he will donate all monies to the Hillsborough charity.
Come on peeps get your wallets out!!!

Sorry, but facts don't lie. This has never happened at an American Football, baseball, hockey, or basketball game. This is a problem that is unique to soccer fans, due to their obsession with the game. We don't rely on a bunch of cops to help us out with something as simple as entering a stadium and getting a seat... 96 peaople died, I get it, but the police and stadium officials aren't the only ones to blame (i think the fans are partially to blame). Sorry it doesn't go along with what you think, it's just my opinion...