reply to post by bates
You can't accept the findings?
Read the Taylor Report and the HIP Report.
They both state quite clearly what happened.
Coaches carrying Liverpool supporters were delayed by roadworks on 2 of the main trans Pennine roads. They were further delayed by random Police
checks, checking for ticketless fans, as well as this, previously there had been 3 special trains laid on for fans from Liverpool (1988) in 1989 there
The initial build up of people started behind the first perimeter that was a standard set up in those days, and then more pressure built outside the
turnstyles which were found to be completely inadequate for the number of fans given tickets to the Leppings Lane end.
It was at this point, that fearing a crush Gate C was opened and thousands of fans poured through with no direction as to where they should go. The
tunnel leading into the Leppings Lane end had a gradient of 1 in 6, much steeper than the "Green Guide" maximum (Green Guide is for Stadium Safety,
and is part of the Safety Certificate that Sheffield Wednesday had not held for 10 years by this time, with the FA having full knowledge of this.
So, imagine the scene: You are in a crowd, excited, anxious, wanting to get into the game. A gate is opened through which fans pour to escape the
crush outside, and with no direction to the empty pens, make for the central concourse, which is extremely steep. Those already inside are pushed
further forwards, and those coming in behind are in turn pushed as fans flow down the steep concourse.
Crucially, at this point, a crush barrier collapsed (The Safety Certificate had not been granted in part due to the inadequacy of crush barriers) and
people fell forwards, further crushing those at the front.
There was plenty of room in the side pens, and Leppings Lane was NOT overcrowded, only the central pens were, BUT unlike previous years, the Police
and Stewards failed to usher fans to the side pens as Gate C was opened.
This was also not the first time this had happened at Hillsborough, similar incidents had occurred frequently over 40 years, and in particular a
disaster was only narrowly averted in 1981 when a Police officer noticed Spurs fans being crushed and had the good sense to open a side gate. Over 500
fans watched the game sat behind the goal line as a result.
In 1988 when Liverpool played the FA Cup semi final at Hillsborough, many fans wrote to the FA saying it was a disaster waiting to happen.
The safety of the ground was not only compromised, is was totally inadequate, and perhaps more to the point, this had been known for many years by the
Police, SWFC, Sheffield City Council, and the FA.
So you can now carry out an experiment. Find a 1:6 gradient and walk down it with perhaps ten other people around you.
Then try and stop, turn around and force your way back through.
Now multiply that effect by 100 and you'll have an idea of one of the problems.
The delays certainly contributed, but Police numbers were down on previous years, and the filtering process which allowed a steady stream rather than
a rush of people was not in place.
Fans were a bit late through no fault of their own, and although some doubtless didn't have tickets, the numbers were not high enough to cause the
crush, because the pens were still under capacity, apart from the central pens which fans should have been directed away from.
Nor were many of the fans "falling down drunk". Sure a few had a couple of beers before the match (those who had travelled independantly i.e. not on
coaches or trains) but the crowd was actually very well behaved.
According to both the Taylor Report and the HIP report no blame lay with the fans on that day, instead a series of Authorities failed them in nearly
every way possible, and it has been stated by both reports that lives were saved due to the actions of fans.
The part that truly sickens LFC fans however, is that up 41 lives could potentially have been saved if the Authorities had acted correctly AFTER the
crush had happened.
As I stated at the beginning of this post, read the Taylor Report and the HIP report. Both are independant reports written by people with no agenda
except finding the truth, contrary to Police reports which sought only to cover up their own culpability.
In fact, if you feel you "can't accept" the findings of the reports I suggest you write to the HIP outlining your own findings, and why you
I'm sure that a panel consisting of Professors, Legal experts, a Bishop, top investigative journalists etc will be very interested to read the views
of a layman, after they studied 450,000 documents and produced a document covering nearly 400 pages over a 20 month period, rather than reading a
thread and deciding that someone with little knowledge of the subject "disagrees".
edit on 20/9/2012 by budski because: (no reason