Hillsborough files released: LIVE coverage

I was only a year old when this tragedy took place so everything I know is what I've learned from reading and watching videos. The fact that so much information was being withheld and so much not even given consideration was all I needed to know that a cover up of the highest order was in place.

I haven't had much time to sit down and sort through all the info that was coming out during the day. All I know so far was from what I've been reading on stories coming into my apps throughout the day. I'm honestly shocked at some of what I've read though. Knowing that some of the victims were still breathing well past the 3:15 cutoff is just unbelievable.

My heart goes out the families of the 96, all Liverpool supporters who were at Hillsborough that fateful day. YNWA.

One of my friends died from his injuries at Hillsborough, in fact he was the last one to die, Tony Bland.

The facts that have come out are quite sickening.

I remember the day very well indeed.
I was at the other semi-final that day, Everton v Norwich at Villa Park (I'm a Blue) and on the coach home we were hearing garbled reports of what had happened and what WAS happening.
I'm ashamed to say that myself and many others travelling back to Liverpool on the coach took what was happening with a pinch of salt and just thought it was just the typical over-hyping by the media of football "hooliganism".

It didn't really start to hit us what happened until we got back home later that evening and instead of going to the pub (as we would have, naturally after getting to Wembley) we all huddled round a friend's tv to watch it.
Truly sickening scenes poured out from the BBC coverage and then over the following days and weeks the fans who were at Hillsborough were subjected to the most vile allegations, not just in the Scum, but from all over the media and from the government itself.
The next few weeks were horrible, with all the funerals taking place, men, women and children all being buried after just going to support their team. The whole city didn't smile for an age.

Everyone involved knew the real events hadn't been reported correctly, everyone.
So why has it taken this long for the truth to come out?
To me, that's one in a long list of questions which still need answering.

From yesterday's report it's clear that there's a hell of a lot of issues to be addressed.
Let's just hope this is done quickly and with the least amount of fuss and bureaucracy.
The relatives deserve that at the very, VERY least.

The main points I have digested are these, some of which also appeared in the Taylor report which has been conveniently overlooked by many after testimony at the inquests appeared to support their agenda:

There was a catastrophic failure of leadership amongst senior officers of SYP

The cutoff point of 3:15pm is completely untenable and a new inquest must surely be ordered

The scale of the cover up was huge, and went further than anyone thought.

41 lives could potentially have been saved had ambulances been allowed onto the pitch, as it was, Doctors and Nurses from the crowd did the best they could, but there was no medical equipment at the ground, contrary to rules which state there should have been.

Over 40 ambulances were kept outside, preventing vital triage which would have meant the most seriously injured being administered to first.

Thatchers private secretary stated to her that "SYP have acted despicably, bordering on deceit". She did nothing, no censure, nothing and for that she is culpable in the lies that followed.

The injuries examined by the Panel were not consistent with those reported at the inquest and appear to have been "lumped together"

There's much more of course, but as it's a near 400 page document I haven't read it all or even begun the process of cross referencing.

A big mention also to Newsnight for their interviews last night, and also to Trevor Hicks for his dignity and refusal to bow to official pressure.

A quick word about Mr Hicks, for those that don't know.
Mr Hicks was able to find both his daughters on the pitch, they were both in great distress having received crush injuries. At this time an ambulance (the only one to make it as far as Leppings Lane end) came and was being loaded with casualties. The ambulance was only able to take one of his daughters and himself, so he was left with the horrifying decision of which daughter to stay with. He chose to go in the ambulance, believing that his other daughter was in capable hands (other fans were helping at this point)
Both of his daughters died.

Mr Hicks, along with many others has shown incredible fortitude and dignity in the 23 years since that awful day, and we can only hope that the next stage in their quest for justice proves as fruitfull as the HIP report.

A criminal investigation into the police handling of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster must happen, a former chief constable has said.

Richard Wells, who led South Yorkshire Police from 1990 to 1998, said charges were "absolutely essential" after a damning report into the tragedy.

It found police changed statements and tried to blame fans for a crush which led to 96 fans dying.

The current chief constable said if the law was broken there should be charges.

www.bbc.co.uk...

And so it should..

I seriously hope that everyone involved gets at least 23 years behind bars as they have been walking the streets that long.. the same amount of time it has taken to get all of this into the open.

The corrupt police officers are not going to enjoy themselves inside as they've got 23 years worth of arrests in our prisons..

Makes you feel all warm inside..

Thought I'd add this for all to see.
It is a lot of the TV news reports from that day, and thereabouts..
This is 40 minutes of different TV channels reporting on it..

To me, it's as though it happened yesterday watching all this again..


How much evidence can we obtain from all of this? for those who now wish to see charges pressed, this is an invaluable video.

Sometimes, all this technology that we all give our sweat and blood (from working to earn a wage) and others make massive profits from (to sit on their butts to do as they please), pays off.. I hope it pays off.. If it weren't for computers, TV, data storage and the like, those responsible may never be charged..

One thing the report doesn't conclude was why Super-intendent Brian Mole (Not Bone as I called him in my previous thread) was struck off three weeks before the semi-final. Unsurprisingly there isn't much information on this but I did come across an explanation in 'Hillsborough: The Truth", a book written in 2009.

The 'highly controversial' circumstances appear to have related to an incident in which a probationary officer was severely assaulted at gun point in a public area by two other police-man wearing balaclavas in what looked like some initiation ceremony.The book also quotes a woman explaining that life was hell for new recruits working under Spt Mole. Criminal proceedings were deemed 'inappropriate', but four officers resigned and Spt Mole moved to Barnsley. To me this highlights an unregulated police-force that were almost out of control in thinking they could act how they wanted, corruption must have been rife.

reply to post by Extralien


I know some people have not seen this footage and it is powerful imagery which conveys the horror of the day.
But i can't watch any of it again, just can't.
It makes me so angry and then so sad, all day yesterday i was just randomly bursting in to tears.

NEVER FORGOTTEN .

This is awful.

Hillsborough victim's mother Anne Williams: 'It's gone on so long now, I want more than "Sorry"'

Anne established from evidence and credible witnesses that Kevin was lifted from the pen at 3.28pm and laid on the pitch, alive but weak.

She took a statement from Special Constable Debra Martin, who was among those ferrying the dead and injured to the ground’s gym. Debra told Anne, ‘I stayed with Kevin. I felt for a pulse at the base of his neck and…there was a slight blip…I picked him up in my arms and he opened his eyes. I’ll never forget the look in that little boy’s eyes. And he just said, “Mum” and carried on looking for a few more seconds.’

Debra established that Kevin died around 4pm. The official view, however, is that all the victims were brain-dead by 3.15 from traumatic asphyxia which left their bodies blue and bloated. ‘But those markings weren’t on Kevin,’ Anne says.

Her pathologists argue that broken bones in Kevin’s neck caused his airways to swell; a simple rubber tube down his throat would have saved him. The life and the mischief could have been revived.

"a simple rubber tube down his throat would have saved him" - and according to news just out yesterday, maybe 40 more.



And then there's this.

Hillsborough policeman gets £330,000 payout

A retired policeman who claimed he began suffering post-traumatic stress nine years after the Hillsborough disaster has received £330,000 compensation.

Families of victims denounced the compensation deal as 'proof of double standards'.

Phil Hammond, who received £3,500 following the death of his 14-year-old son, Philip, said: 'I just can't believe it. He (Mr Long) has received more than people who were badly injured and will never work again.'

South Yorkshire Police is considering handing itself over to the IPCC

The force has confirmed it is considering referring itself for investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

www.bbc.co.uk...

"Considering"??

should be mandatory that they now 'give themselves up'... each and every single one of them.. no matter where they are or what they're doing..

They should be arrested under suspiscion.. Let them sweat it out in cells whilst the investigation gets under way. There is already enough evidence to warrant arrests seeing as it is now widely known that 160 (approx) statements were modified..

Finally remembered to dig this out:
Spurs v Wolves 1981

It shows horrible similarities to 89, but this had happened 8 years before.

It also shows that Police ARE able to use their common sense, it's just that in 89 they had an incompetent commander and little or no instructions.

It was in fact (Hillsborough for ANY big match) a disaster waiting to happen.

In my book, the FA, SWFC, Sheffield Council or all at LEAST as culpable as the Police for what happened.
All 3 organisations knew there were problems with Hillsborough, but chose to ignore them.

Why do some people become mindless animals when they gather in large groups? Like a bunch of crazed cattle. It's so unfortunate.

reply to post by Drezden


i'm sorry, but I don't quite know how to take your comment?

Crazed animals?

Who?

Could you expand on that for us?

i too have known folk who had friends and relations die at hillsborough - i would encourage anyone not familiar with this scandal to read up on the various sources in the thread before leaping to judgements or asking dumb and insensitive questions - 96 people died and police and governments covered their incompetence and lack of care with smears, for some 23 years - justice for the 96

Originally posted by Extralien
reply to post by Drezden

 

i'm sorry, but I don't quite know how to take your comment?

Crazed animals?

Who?

Could you expand on that for us?

He's refering to the fans stampeding like cattle into a pen with no regard for their fellow humans...

Did the public know how unsafe the stadium was before the incident?

Originally posted by Drezden
Why do some people become mindless animals when they gather in large groups? Like a bunch of crazed cattle. It's so unfortunate.

Sorry man but maybe you should really just see your way out of this thread. 96 innocent people lost their lives that day. A coverup and smear campaign that lasted some 20 years stained their good names and poured acid over their loved ones wounds.

This is the type of stuff that brings people like us together at a site like this and you come in here and spew your vitriol...

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Originally posted by Extralien
reply to post by Drezden

 

i'm sorry, but I don't quite know how to take your comment?

Crazed animals?

Who?

Could you expand on that for us?

He's refering to the fans stampeding like cattle into a pen with no regard for their fellow humans...

Did the public know how unsafe the stadium was before the incident?

There's plenty of information online to counter your view. Yes there were things in place that didn't help the situation but that's why the policemen were there, to help the situation. And they didn't help by opening the gate. Match was about to start and was already underway as the scene was unfolding. Lots of traffic and construction en route to the stadium so lots of fans were coming in late. Lots of variables... what everyone's more pissed about is the subsequent coverup and smear campaign.

reply to post by jeantherapy

My question is not irrelevant, this entire matter hinges upon the fact that police were present! I am asking you to consider the possible outcome if there were no police there. Why is everyone unwilling to consider the outcome if there had been no police? Afraid of what the answer might be?

It is irrelevant. This is in the past. It happened. No amount of imagination is going to change any of that. Why are you unwilling to accept the fact that their is a police presence at all major sporting events. The scenario you want people to consider is a fantasy. Why should folks waste their time debating a useless topic? I could understand if you were asking folks to imagine a scenario in the present or future. You are not asking that. Why so hellbent to get an answer to your meaningless question?

Are you attempting to deflect debate away from the topic at hand with your fictional scenario?

To desribe the fan's behaviour as animalistic is vague and misguided, and no, one of the issues brought up in the report is that safety concerns of the police in previous years were never discussed. It's doubtful any of the fans had been present at the previous semi-finals at Hillsborough as they didn't include Liverpool or Nottingham Forest.

The scenario was that it was getting over-crowded outside the ground as well as inside. The problem began because the police assumed that because it was over-crowded outside, it was likely to be largely empty on the inside. In order to alleviate overcrowding outside the ground, one policeman opened an exit gate which lead to a tunnel through to the Leppings terrace.

When a person of authority is telling you to go somewhere, it is not animalistic behaviour to follow their guide. Plus when you're in an intense, intimidating situation such as overcrowding, you're more likely to take anyone's lead to get out of it. Had the police been communicating effectively they would have known that the ground inside was already crowded, and if they weren't so inexperienced they would have known that exit gates are never used to allow people inside the ground.

Originally posted by twfau
When a person of authority is telling you to go somewhere, it is not animalistic behaviour to follow their guide. Plus when you're in an intense, intimidating situation such as overcrowding, you're more likely to take anyone's lead to get out of it. Had the police been communicating effectively they would have known that the ground inside was already crowded, and if they weren't so inexperienced they would have known that exit gates are never used to allow people inside the ground.

It most certainly is animalistic the way the people behaved. If people were calm and considerate they wouldn't have been pushing. When the person in front of you is not moving, and you see the people in front of them are not moving... you don't keep moving like a mindless animal and push people.