Two Saudis beheaded for armed robbery

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Ever hear of a second chance?
I stole as a youth and was violent as an adult...I learned,why can't others.
Intolerance is a weak argument to me based on experience alone.
Thankfully....I came upon good people (indirectly even) who taught me better.

There is other things to look at as well....what was their home life?

People behave based on the experiences they have....not everyone has the same experiences.
If they did....they would just be called a sheep,especially on ats.
Variety is the spice of life and tolerance and forgiveness isn't a bad thing.

edit on 11-9-2012 by DrumsRfun because: (no reason given)

I think we're missing the most important factor in this. In America, we live in a society where second chances and tolerance for petty crime is just a part of the way of things. It's ingrained and core to life here. Like it or don't, there it is.

In Saudi Arabia, there IS no such tolerance and I understand that is something taught from the earliest age on forward. It's a radically different society..and my note to learn from them did note I would never suggest we copy what they have. However, having said that, if one commits a crime punishable by death, KNOWS what that crime and punishment was before committing it, then does it anyway and gets busted....I really can't find sympathy for them. They paid their money and they took their chances.....it came up short and so did these two, by about one head's height each. (You might say I'd make Attila the Hun blush with regard to my feelings on crime and punishment).

I found this that I figured everyone may find interesting.. It's the U.S. State Departments official information and warnings on travel to and within the Kingdom.

Persons violating Saudi Arabian laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, imprisoned, or even executed. Suspects may be detained without charges or legal counsel, and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs in Saudi Arabia are severe. Convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences, heavy fines, public floggings, and/or deportation. The penalty for drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia is death. Saudi officials make no exceptions.

Obviously, not the top spot for Spring Breakers anywhere.....to be overly generous about it.

Saudi authorities do not permit criticism of Islam or the royal family. The government prohibits the public practice of religions other than Islam. Non-Muslims suspected of violating these restrictions have been jailed. Homosexual activity and adultery are considered to be criminal offenses and those convicted may be sentenced to lashing, prison, or death.

Other things are similarly....handled..and no, I absolutely don't agree with everything they do and why I chose my words about learning from but not copying.

It seems, they are quite serious in Saudi Arabia about doing things their way and really don't care what anyone, anywhere thinks about it....this part DID surprise me.

A married woman should be aware that she must have her husband's permission for her and their children to depart Saudi Arabia. This is true even if the woman and/or her children are U.S. citizens and even if her husband does not have Saudi nationality. The U.S. Embassy can intercede with the Saudi government to request exit visas for adult U.S. women, but there is no guarantee that visas will be issued, and obtaining an exit visa without the male guardian’s consent will take many months, if it can be obtained at all.

Source

Quite a place! When I've spent my whole life in a place where petty crime is so common and so much a part of the scenery as to require locks on EVERYTHING..even in ones own fenced and locked yards....It's simply a desire to be open to other approaches that may work. I'd never suggest they don't carry it a bit too far in some areas, to my Western ways of thinking of it.

Hey, I am all for second chances....the problem I have is when a second chance turns into a twentieth chance. Problem I have is society in the west has given the criminal more rights then the victim.....and that many progressives try to pin the blame on the victim.

disgusting way to treat a human life.
Saudi, if your a girl and your raped prepare to be punished for adultery.

Clearly, there is something wrong with their society.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Yep, it's called Religion.

We could all lose a little Religion now and then.

OK...

Personally, I could care less, it's their country and it works for them.

Two years ago the Saudis beheaded a Child Molester and all the bleeding hearts came out in a thread and said THAT was cruel and unusual punishment. I totally disagreed and was glad the Molester got whacked [Or Chopped rather]. Having said that imho this punishment for that type of crime seems a bit OVER THE TOP....

Admiring Saudi's treatment of criminals is like admiring Hitlers treatment of the mentally ill and physically handicapped.

I met a guy in Turkey who'd fled Saudi after having a hand removed, seemed like a nice enough guy even though he was begging in the streets. Thing is once you've had a hand chopped of in an Islamic society you're always regared as a thief and an outcast, theres no coming back from it, it's a permanent social ostracization.

Maybe if in the West we spent more on schools than prisons we might have less crime, just a thought.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Admiring Saudi's treatment of criminals is like admiring Hitlers treatment of the mentally ill and physically handicapped.

Well, admiring the efficiency and effectiveness of the Saudi Justice system is one thing. What I'm in disbelief here with is how the chosen action of criminals and predatory human beings could ever be compared to the cold blooded and systematic extermination of the Mentally Ill and physically Handicapped under a system of pure evil. It's wandering pretty far to the edge of topic..but it's also just a crazy comparison I'll have to think on when my brain unfreezes from the realization that I'd really read that,.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Admiring Saudi's treatment of criminals is like admiring Hitlers treatment of the mentally ill and physically handicapped.

Well, admiring the efficiency and effectiveness of the Saudi Justice system is one thing. What I'm in disbelief here with is how the chosen action of criminals and predatory human beings could ever be compared to the cold blooded and systematic extermination of the Mentally Ill and physically Handicapped under a system of pure evil. It's wandering pretty far to the edge of topic..but it's also just a crazy comparison I'll have to think on when my brain unfreezes from the realization that I'd really read that,.

Thought i'd best make it strong so you could feel how i felt after reading your stuff.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


How can you admire a system that kills people for stealing?

That is barbarism

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Progressives don't mind using underhanded and demeaning attacks to try and quell any discussion.

It's nice to see that the muslims whack their own sometimes.
It is usually us poor Westerners that get the head chop.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

That's a regressive mindset. Causing disabled people for petty crimes like shoplifting is so backwards I can't believe you are advocating it. Why would you want to take society back in time?

edit on 11-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Stealing is a regressive mindset also and it damages society too.If the threat and occasional employment of one evil largely prevents the other, surely that would be better than an infinite societal resignation to the notion that "people will steal and that's just the way it is".

If such an attitude was applied by everyone to everything imagine where we'd be?

In a perfect world we would all understand why it is not a good thing to steal, by in turn understanding cause and effect,in otherwords an ethical understanding, Instead we attempt to enforce morals upon one another, commands with no explanation. This method has clearly failed and my idealistic solution is simply unfeasable at this point.

To my mind, extreme punishments like this would be the quickest way to recondition a society into not stealing. From there, a structure for learning ethics could be established and cultivated to a point where the threat of dire punity could be replaced with understanding.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
disgusting way to treat a human life.
Saudi, if your a girl and your raped prepare to be punished for adultery.

Clearly, there is something wrong with their society.

Funny you say that.

Disgusting........

Are you aware most countries wont Extradite to the US because of our DISGUSTING need to kill people.

"People who live in Glass Houses, shouldn't throw Stones"

reply to post by blah yada


I think the act of stealing is a natural one... It is the work of the man that dictates that it is wrong to steal.
The man has the most to lose. The man also steals from us, but call it taxes and the like.

Animals steal all the time and they are just surviving and are admired for their prowess.

I Just don't see how a insanely rich nation like Saudi, which has a very low crime rate thanks to the majority of the country being well off, should be living in the middle ages. Do you also admire how they treat their women and foreign workers.

It's a very hypocritical society - I know a banker guy who's spent a lot of time there. While their Royal family is proclaiming their moral superiority they're getting drunk, high and jumping on european prostitues. It's just about keeping the level of fear at a satisfacory level to keep the minority of the socialy disenfranchised quiet and out of view.

reply to post by RealSpoke

Well, now I believe this will make the 4th time saying this, and please, take my words as I type them....I really type so MANY of them to attempt to preempt misunderstanding in every way I can anticipate...it's still short sometimes.

l said I admire the efficiency and elegance of their system. I also said I think we could learn some things from it, in about the same way I feel about the Chinese system...and I am no supporter of either system as a whole. Just this one narrow aspect of it.

What I was so careful..deliberate..and very clear to say (so this WOULDN'T be the next reply I had thrown at me...I saw it coming) was that I'd never want to COPY what they have and absolutely NOT the law it's all based on. In other words. I don't admire the execution of a shoplifter. Never would. It's their system though, and outside my place to dump on...just as I'd invite a Saudi national to keep their own counsel about what they find offensive about MY system, beyond personal opinion.

I admire the no tolerance. No plea bargains. No lawyers crying about childhood trauma's, not getting their date at prom or the coach being mean to them in high school..among all the other excuses we hear for the chosen actions of human predators. 0 tolerance and a system of absolutes in punishment is a system with deterrence value. OUR system is Las Vegas gambling in a court room on almost every single criminal case that gets that far. It's absurd...and that was the point and basis of my comments.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
While their Royal family is proclaiming their moral superiority they're getting drunk, high and jumping on european prostitues.

At first glance, I thought you had commented on the GOP convention.

Of course their Royal Family parties, except for Queen Liz in England, all the Royal Elites worldwide party like Crack Heads at a Columbian Wedding.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

How can you admire a system that kills people for stealing?

Armed Robbery is hardly "stealing". It is an aggressive crime with the threat of violence and death that traumatizes the victim(s).

To use your own word it is barbarism.

Once a man resorts to this level of behavior he deserves to reap what he sows.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
That is barbarism

I'm a result oriented kind of guy so whatever works. I can say one thing their brand of justice is neither bankrupting their taxpayers in an effort to "rehabilitate" people who have obviously succumbed to their base nature as predators nor is it resulting in the proliferation of further crime. Win-Win.

It's fairly obvious that our "civilized" methods of almost unlimited chances doesn't work.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
While their Royal family is proclaiming their moral superiority they're getting drunk, high and jumping on european prostitues.

At first glance, I thought you had commented on the GOP convention.

Of course their Royal Family parties, except for Queen Liz in England, all the Royal Elites worldwide party like Crack Heads at a Columbian Wedding.

Well, showing a face in public and another in private isn't just a Saudi habit. I usually go with the formula that the more moral and rightous people claim to be the weirder their private life is.

Might be being a bit hard on ya Rabbit - In my world people would get banished to the "ISLAND" after a few failed rehabilitations. Let the crims have their own society to mess up away from the rest of us. Maybe some kind of implant to stop them escaping.

Probably a good thing i have no judicial powers..