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posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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Over the years I've made comments and asked questions pertaining to god that receive no replies whatsoever. I'd like to post them here to give them a second chance at being answered.

1. Did god use magic to create the universe, or did he have to use a logical, scientific approach?
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2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?
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3. If a god exists, doesn't that mean that we have no personal value whatsoever? If you take pieces of wood and make them into checkers on a checkerboard, can they move themselves or are they wholly at the mercy of your whims? You can throw them out, burn them, cast them into a drawer and never touch them again. So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have? Doesn't the existence of a creator with a grand design (a purpose of his own) render you purposeless?
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4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?

I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.
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Feel free to post questions of your own.




posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
Over the years I've made comments and asked questions pertaining to god that receive no replies whatsoever. I'd like to post them here to give them a second chance at being answered.

1. Did god use magic to create the universe, or did he have to use a logical, scientific approach?
------------------------------------------------------
2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?
----------------------------------------------------
3. If a god exists, doesn't that mean that we have no personal value whatsoever? If you take pieces of wood and make them into checkers on a checkerboard, can they move themselves or are they wholly at the mercy of your whims? You can throw them out, burn them, cast them into a drawer and never touch them again. So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have? Doesn't the existence of a creator with a grand design (a purpose of his own) render you purposeless?
-------------------------------------------------
4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?

I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Feel free to post questions of your own.


1. From my point of view. God have never been separated from creation and magic are just things that people do not understand yeet that is appart of reality/everything/god. The quantum jump and the slit experiment seem to be like magic to me but that is because I have been taught/conditioned that reality is different from what it really is and I am trying to see thru all the nonthruts that I belive are truths.

2. You are caught in a 3D world trying to understand a higher dimesional reality with 3D senses. What is magic to your mind and my mind is just reality to someone who understands more.

3. After a while the purpose of god and a human spirit seem to merge to the same purpose. Then you are just arguing with the people who understand more than you on how to implement that purpose.


4. Sound can change many things when used in the right frequency. Deep meditation with resonating sounds make a very big difference.

I do not understand this phrase: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Is the word Om (aum) or ong? Does it mean god split itself up with the sound of aum?

In the beginning there was the sound of AUM, and the sound was with ONE, and the sound was ONE. Where ONE equals "the ONE that is ALL". So a sound from god started the splitt that we call the big bang?

Above are my ideas and everyone should question the validety of them and try to figure out if the hold any merit. Thank you for the thread. I was in a bad mood over a small minded thing that I should not let bother me until I read your thread and this got me in a better mood.
edit on 9-9-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I was in a bad mood over a small minded thing that I should not let bother me until I read your thread and this got me in a better mood.


Doncha hate that! Sometimes when I start ruminating over petty things I have to imagine myself lying on my deathbed and looking back on what was P'ing me off. Then I realize just how petty it is and I can forget it. We can get so caught up in things that are so trivial, and I hate wasting my time on them.

Glad my thread helped.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

Hello. I may be able to help you find the answers to your questions.
If you are serious about finding the answers, and not just merely winding people up, then may I suggest that you click on the link provided.
It will lead you to a series of lectures that explain the fundamental truths of Christian doctrine.
May I also respectfully suggest that you read and study the Christian Bible.

If you are not all that serious, or don't really give too hoots about the answers, may I respectfully suggest that you still follow the link and pursue the Bible. At least that way you will know and understand the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and be able to decide whether to use or discard that knowledge in your own personal life.

MarsHill

I hope this helps you in your search for answers.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




1. Did god use magic to create the universe, or did he have to use a logical, scientific approach?


A logical scientific approach, so the order could stand on it's own and have a sense of normalcy.



2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?


This is mans definition that is trying to describe light. His methods for doing this, would not be the same method man would have to utilize to create, if that makes sense.



So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have?


Religion teaches that you are a horrible sinner and you are at his mercy. This is a flaw of religion, not of Father. As my perspective does not come from religion, I will let another one who is religious answer this question.




4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?

I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.


There is an error in that phrase, but I will not go down that road. But, it is describing Jesus, not God.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by 1king2rulethemall
reply to post by jiggerj
 

Hello. I may be able to help you find the answers to your questions.
If you are serious about finding the answers, and not just merely winding people up, then may I suggest that you click on the link provided.
It will lead you to a series of lectures that explain the fundamental truths of Christian doctrine.
May I also respectfully suggest that you read and study the Christian Bible.

If you are not all that serious, or don't really give too hoots about the answers, may I respectfully suggest that you still follow the link and pursue the Bible. At least that way you will know and understand the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and be able to decide whether to use or discard that knowledge in your own personal life.

MarsHill

I hope this helps you in your search for answers.


You misunderstand. I have the answers for myself. It's the religious that need to find these answers. What good is it for one to say that he/she believes in a god or a religion, yet has no clue as to what they are claiming to worship and believe in.

My answers:

1. There's no such thing as magic. Therefore, everything was created by natural laws.
2. God didn't create light.
3. If a god exists, then we don't exist. We would be merely a figment of his imagination.
4. 'In the beginning was the word...',



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
Over the years I've made comments and asked questions pertaining to god that receive no replies whatsoever. I'd like to post them here to give them a second chance at being answered.

1. Did god use magic to create the universe, or did he have to use a logical, scientific approach?



Quite possibly neither of those things. What we know and what we understand is limited to the dimensions in which we are bound. We are creatures that are limited to four dimensions, and our knowledge beyond this is likewise limited. String theory proposes that there are multiple dimensions (depending on who/what you read, anywhere from 10 to 50), but generally the knowable, observable universe, for us, consists of 4 (time, and space x3). God is not limited to these dimensions, nor is he bound by the physical laws that He created. I'd be extremely surprised if God's approach wasn't logical (after all, God created logic, so it clearly forms a part of His character), but that doesn't mean it wasn't a supernatural act either.

I realise that's a bit of a non-answer, but the truth is that we only know what God has revealed to us, and what we can discern from our limited experience... so until we see Him face to face, we may never know the depth of the reality of God's creative processes.



2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?


Creation in Scripture occurs in two senses. The first type of creation is that which you and I are familiar with. When we create artwork, for example, we do so using known, identified media that facilitate that process. The second type of creation is termed "ex nihilo" (meaning literally, "out of nothing"). This is the type of creation that we see in Genesis 1. To say "where did He get the photons" suggests that the photons predate God Himself. This is another example of our limitations as humans. We are finite creatures; wrapping our mind around the infinite is complex. We find it difficult to conceive that God always was; always is; always will be... yet this is what the Bible teaches, without apology.



3. If a god exists, doesn't that mean that we have no personal value whatsoever? If you take pieces of wood and make them into checkers on a checkerboard, can they move themselves or are they wholly at the mercy of your whims? You can throw them out, burn them, cast them into a drawer and never touch them again. So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have? Doesn't the existence of a creator with a grand design (a purpose of his own) render you purposeless?


Yes and no. You are right to suggest that we are, in some sense, pawns in a cosmic game. However... God did not create us as mere playthings or static pieces on a board. We have agency. We make choices; even choices that God Himself would prefer we did not make (Genesis 3 being the key example of this). More than that, we were created in the very image of God Himself, after His likeness. The way the BIble makes this reference suggests more than just physical resemblance, it suggests that we 'take after Him', in more ways than one. We are creative. We are resourceful. We love. We hate. We grow angry, we become moved with compassion. We seek the company of others, we long for something greater, we pray, we praise, we seek the communion of God Himself. In this, we are far removed from the rest of His creation, and we are a thing of beauty. God Himself says we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" (Psalm 139).





4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?


The Word is Jesus Christ. The passage you quote (John chapter 1) goes on to clarify this point. If you do a word study in the BIble, look up every reference to the word 'word', you'll find that there are many occasions and many ways in which this term ('logos') is used to refer either directly or subtly to Christ Himself. Now, if you ask what does it mean, that Christ is the Word...? That's a slightly different angle - and, put simply, it means that Christ Himself is the greatest single form of communication between God and man. As John says "The word became flesh, and dwelt among us". This is the key differentiator between Christianity and world religion. In world religion, man desperately tries to communicate with, to attain to, God. In Christ... God Himself reaches out to man, to bridge the gap, close the divide, and solve the problem at the heart of man: sin.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 



A logical scientific approach, so the order could stand on it's own and have a sense of normalcy.

This makes Him a scientist. Not a god. If I were to believe in a creator, I would have no problem accepting this premise.


This is mans definition that is trying to describe light. His methods for doing this, would not be the same method man would have to utilize to create, if that makes sense.


No, it doesn't make sense (even to YOU. lol) Your first answer claimed a logical scientific approach to the creation of the universe. Could it simply be that the writers of the bible didn't know what light actually was, and considered it magic instead of photon particles?



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




No, it doesn't make sense (even to YOU. lol) Your first answer claimed a logical scientific approach to the creation of the universe.


Actually it does. But, trying to translate this into human terms would be rather difficult. That's like asking me to describe how Father can be in more than one place at once. He used a logical approach so things would hold together on their own, as to no daily intervention would be needed. That still is not an absolute answer, but the closest answer I can give.

Example: If man consumes, he will need to waste. So, logic is used, so the angels would not have to come down to remove the waste for man.



Could it simply be that the writers of the bible didn't know what light actually was, and considered it magic instead of photon particles?


The writers of the bible trying to describe something not known in detail to them would be difficult. But, you are only listing two possibilities.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Awen24
 


I don't care if what you wrote is right or wrong. You write with confidence and a knowledge that implies you've studied more than just the bible. In short, you blew me away.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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You misunderstand. I have the answers for myself. It's the religious that need to find these answers. What good is it for one to say that he/she believes in a god or a religion, yet has no clue as to what they are claiming to worship and believe in.
reply to post by jiggerj
 


May I respectfully recommend that you review your answers then?
Please follow the link.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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I guess the biggest question would be that if there is a God who created everything, then who created God or is God infinate and on what plane does God exist in to preside over us, is there a God's only Universe or dimension and do other God's exist presiding over their own independant creations in God's plane.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 






I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.


Mornin Jigger,

I'l let the religious deal with the questions that you pose and just address this one item, quoted above.

The philosophy of the "Word" is not a Christian concept but a Gnostic one. It was first proposed and then coined by Pythagoras in his literary work called "Hieros Logos," or, Holy word.

Must people know that Pythagoras pioneered the study of sound, vibrations, frequencies and their effects on matter, but few know that John's writing in the Bible are directly taken from the Pythagorian Mystery Schools, founded almost 500 years before the appearance of Jesus.

As to sound traveling through empty space...............

I don't know if empty space actually exists, but that is neither here nor there. Ages ago, when I was in college, I had to take some science to fulfill my credit requirements so I took a couple of Astronomy classes. One of the most mind blowing factoids that I came away with was how sound waves create stars and solar systems.

I'll try to explain it in the feeble way that I understand the complicated science to structure. Simply put, if you have a star over here that goes into super nova, it's spews out matter and sound, which travels faster than the matter, out in a radius. Then, over here, you have another star that goes into super nova and spews it's matter and sound waves out in a radius. When the fronts of the 2 separate sound wave tsumamis meet. The sound waves push against the matter, causing a vibrating cohesion of said matter, that results in nebula star nurseries.

God or no God, sound has everything to do with our existence.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Quote from Awen24:

Yes and no. You are right to suggest that we are, in some sense, pawns in a cosmic game. However... God did not create us as mere playthings or static pieces on a board. We have agency. We make choices; even choices that God Himself would prefer we did not make (Genesis 3 being the key example of this). More than that, we were created in the very image of God Himself, after His likeness. The way the BIble makes this reference suggests more than just physical resemblance, it suggests that we 'take after Him', in more ways than one. We are creative. We are resourceful. We love. We hate. We grow angry, we become moved with compassion. We seek the company of others, we long for something greater, we pray, we praise, we seek the communion of God Himself. In this, we are far removed from the rest of His creation, and we are a thing of beauty. God Himself says we are "fearfully and wonderfully made."


My reply:
I love your entire post, but I think this part especially is beautiful. I so often wonder why God would love us, we are so flawed and we can be downright evil. I believe in my head that he loves us but have always had trouble feeling it in my heart. What you have stated here about us humans helps it to sink in just a little bit and I think that it makes sense. Thank you!
edit on 9-9-2012 by tattooedlunchlady because: Added some words; couldn't figure out how to highlight the quote



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jiggerj
 






I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.


Mornin Jigger,

I'l let the religious deal with the questions that you pose and just address this one item, quoted above.

The philosophy of the "Word" is not a Christian concept but a Gnostic one. It was first proposed and then coined by Pythagoras in his literary work called "Hieros Logos," or, Holy word.

Must people know that Pythagoras pioneered the study of sound, vibrations, frequencies and their effects on matter, but few know that John's writing in the Bible are directly taken from the Pythagorian Mystery Schools, founded almost 500 years before the appearance of Jesus.


Very interesting! Thank you.



As to sound traveling through empty space...............

I don't know if empty space actually exists, but that is neither here nor there. Ages ago, when I was in college, I had to take some science to fulfill my credit requirements so I took a couple of Astronomy classes. One of the most mind blowing factoids that I came away with was how sound waves create stars and solar systems.

I'll try to explain it in the feeble way that I understand the complicated science to structure. Simply put, if you have a star over here that goes into super nova, it's spews out matter and sound, which travels faster than the matter, out in a radius. Then, over here, you have another star that goes into super nova and spews it's matter and sound waves out in a radius. When the fronts of the 2 separate sound wave tsumamis meet. The sound waves push against the matter, causing a vibrating cohesion of said matter, that results in nebula star nurseries.

God or no God, sound has everything to do with our existence.


Googled 'Does a supernova make a sound'. Came up with many sites, so I just picked this one: No sound in space

One paragraph reads:

While the supernova can be seen, it can't be heard, as sound waves cannot travel through space.


edit on 9/9/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Well it was a long time ago that I attended classes, but......


Massive, dying stars vibrate like giant speakers and emit an audible hum before exploding in one of nature's most spectacular blasts, scientists say.


www.space.com...


A hydrodynamic description is used to investigate the generation of ion-sound waves by intense neutrino beams in a dense plasma. The excited ion-sound waves can mediate the transfer of energy and momentum from the neutrinos to the plasma environment of Type II supernova. Since the growth rate of the neutrino-driven ion-sound waves is proportional to GF2/3, where GF (≡10−49 erg cm−3) is the Fermi coupling constant, it is likely that they can contribute to enhance the stalled supernova shock front.


iopscience.iop.org...


A supernova could provide the raw material for sand on otherworldly shores, where crashing waves of H2O send thunderous sound waves through a nitrogen-rich atmosphere.

Scientists speculate that the jet might signify an asymmetry in the original supernova explosion. On the opposite side, observations at radio and other wavelengths indicate that Cas A is plowing into an interstellar molecular gas cloud that confines the shell's outward flow.


www.dailygalaxy.com...




posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Stars and flags and lollipops for your sketicisms!!



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

My answers:

1. There's no such thing as magic. Therefore, everything was created by natural laws.
2. God didn't create light.
3. If a god exists, then we don't exist. We would be merely a figment of his imagination.
4. 'In the beginning was the word...',



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jiggerj
 






I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.


Mornin Jigger,

I'l let the religious deal with the questions that you pose and just address this one item, quoted above.

The philosophy of the "Word" is not a Christian concept but a Gnostic one. It was first proposed and then coined by Pythagoras in his literary work called "Hieros Logos," or, Holy word.

Must people know that Pythagoras pioneered the study of sound, vibrations, frequencies and their effects on matter, but few know that John's writing in the Bible are directly taken from the Pythagorian Mystery Schools, founded almost 500 years before the appearance of Jesus.

As to sound traveling through empty space...............

I don't know if empty space actually exists, but that is neither here nor there. Ages ago, when I was in college, I had to take some science to fulfill my credit requirements so I took a couple of Astronomy classes. One of the most mind blowing factoids that I came away with was how sound waves create stars and solar systems.

I'll try to explain it in the feeble way that I understand the complicated science to structure. Simply put, if you have a star over here that goes into super nova, it's spews out matter and sound, which travels faster than the matter, out in a radius. Then, over here, you have another star that goes into super nova and spews it's matter and sound waves out in a radius. When the fronts of the 2 separate sound wave tsumamis meet. The sound waves push against the matter, causing a vibrating cohesion of said matter, that results in nebula star nurseries.

God or no God, sound has everything to do with our existence.


You know Genesis 1 was written before Pythagoras was an itch in his daddys daddys pants


csep10.phys.utk.edu...
Pulsars emit a frequency, sort of a sound



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

Over the years I've made comments and asked questions pertaining to god that receive no replies whatsoever.
1. Did god use magic to create the universe, or did he have to use a logical, scientific approach?

God did not create the universe. That's just what I think, on account of that the Bible never says He did.
Creation, for one thing is an ongoing process, so it is ridiculous to think of it as something that happened a long time ago.
There was something before creation began, something that could obviously exist without there being a such thing as a universe. We come from there, that state of nowhere, as a thought, and each thought became a person as one thought grew into others. The combination of all those thoughts was a plan and by magic, it became an action that set itself into motion. At first it was chaos and then it grew more ordered as time went on and things became structured according to natural laws that were set up by an independent committee who made the specialized determinations about what would work and what would not. Those laws were made in that way so as to be unbiased and not to favor some people over others to where some could take advantage of the situation.
Anyway, the "magic" would be something special that no one else can do. That is what makes it magic. The reason why there was this magic is that there was a combined and concentrated effort that no longer exists, for one reason, that the void where the collective mind could exist, no longer exists, because the creation process eliminated that by replacing it with a universe. That might seem counter-intuitive, that something that never existed in the first place could cease to exist. It has to do with all those hypothetical persons who were the individual thoughts within the collective mind's thinking, became realized persons within the universe and most of them became inextricably bound to the universe itself. So there is no single person in existence, god or man, who can create another universe, so making the original act of creating a universe "magic".
edit on 10-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)






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