A new country in North America? What do Canadians and Americans make of this?

Am I correct that an independent Quebec would not recognize the British Monarchy?

If so, would the UK take any measures in preventing this or allow it to play out as a purely Canadian issue?

I think Canada should stay united and embrace multiculturalism rather than using it as reason for division. A sovereign Quebec would have significantly less economic clout than it does as a member of Canada with connection to Britain. Quebec's GDP of about 350 billion would be around #30 in the world, while Canada is currently around #10. This is a significant difference when considering economic groups like G8 and G20, where Quebec would have no influence. Canada without Quebec would still be top 20.

I'm not sure why you would rather belong to a nation outside the top 30 in influence, compared to one in the top 10.

As a New Yorker descended from French Canadians, I've always wanted to spend a summer in Quebec. I fear that if Canada were to split, stability would be threatened in both the Eastern and Western halves.

Stay together and become the worlds most sought after destination as global warming boils anyone below the 40th parallel.

Originally posted by the cynic jester
I for one believe it would be folly for Quebec to seperate. The logistics would be mind boggling, and I dare say that the "fledgling" nation would not last long. With no trading partners (the USA, France, pretty much everybody has stated they don't want any part of a sovereign quebec) and a large bureaucracy, it would only be a matter of time before the could not support their own citizens. Not to mention the damage this would cause to Canada. It's simply unfathomable.

Well, politically it's more interresting than you can Imagine. The whole world would watch, behind the scenes ... and the Americans, that have been preaching seperatism for eastern europe, and Asia, for millenia. Would suddenly fall in the shadow, as "dictators" that wouldn't allow any of their "own" side, to do what they preach for others.

The long term repricursions, would be greater than you can imagine.

Vive le Quebec Libre !

Jean Charest va rejoindre Harper en Ontario au plus sacrant
si t'es pas content d'avoir perdu dans un election juste !

sorry for my bit of french but exciting time if we finaly become free
can we start talking in French on ATS if Quebec become independant ?
for a day we can post only in french lol
i speak way to much english on daily basis .. im loosing my french ahah

reply to post by masqua


Your Avy is funny has hell ahaha
laughing much when i saw it
he really look like an imbecile

My wife would be happy because I would move to Canada finally! It is closer to where I spent most of my youth in southern Louisiana! Lets face it Quebec has always felt that they are NOT Canadians and most in Ont. dont like them nor care if they left!

I love Quebec. I used to live in New York state right along the border and I would go to Quebec for poutine quite often lol. Montreal is beautiful and I have family in St. Therese. I've always thought of Quebec as it's own country and I know many people would be happy to see them recognized as so!

Now I'm craving poutine

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by aboutface

 

... All the while, companies will be closing plants and moving west and south due to economic uncertainty

I thought that we've already been down that road with the moving of head offices out of Montreal, designating what remained as regional offices?

This is deja vu all over again. The Canadian political reality is that 25% of the federal vote rests in Quebec. Quebec is a huge voting block that is locked in for the party that promises the most for this province. The majority of the population resides in the east so that in a rep by pop system in Canada and election is decided as soon as the folks in Ontario have cast their ballots. No federal politicaln wants to lose the Quebec vote, and this buys Quebec favored status.
As for Quebec being the richest privince in natural resources that is a myth. I remembered when Quebec was peddling their huge deposits of asbestos as a justification for political separation. General Dynamics sensing a timely economic opportunity to exploit a nationalistic movement, unloaded their vast asbestos holdings onto the Quebec gov't for a tidy profit. It is often said that if Quebec had the oil possessed by Alberta it would be long gone and that is the truth.
It's deficiency in mineral wealth is offset by heavy federal spending in Quebec. An inordinate amound of federal departments populate the province of Quebec. Quebec also gets more than it's fair share of government spending projects and corporations like Bombardier owe their existance to the Federal Government.
Indeed the culture, language and other aspects of society in Quebec are distinctly different from the rest of Canada and that in itself lends some justification for a separate nation.
Separatist Politicans are typically highly educated French Canadians from upper class backgrounds who feign animosity towards federal politicans just as two WWA wrestlers do at a promotion of an upcoming event. Behind the scenes both are friends. These theatrics have been at play for decades and French Canadians have, as a result, gained more rights and benefits than any other minority in any federal system in the world.
In order to sell Separation from Canada, Quebec Politicians have appealed to the nationalist sentiments and fervor of the French Canadian People. To allay the fears of going it alone, they have likened separation to a privledged economic union. A union where they will share a common currency and passport. A union where the cost of uneconomic federal services, such as a postal service, will be borne by the rest of Canada. They portray Independence as a happy separation, to aleviate uncommitted voters as opposed to the divorce scenario which would inevitably result from Independence.
Globalists are pushing North American Union. They are anxious to exploit any destabilization which would accelerate the process of integration of the US and Canada. Daniel Estelin in his book on the Bilderberg group talked about how Conrad Black, the former Newspaper mogul and the Rockefellers encouraged Indepence in order to the rest of Canada into a Union with the US. This would leave Quebec completely isolated with no bargaining power and no option but to follow. In this inevitable outcome what leverage Quebec have to preserve it's language and culture. Instead of being a minority of 5 million in a sea of 30 million it would become a minority of 5 million in a sea of 400 million and dwarf other minorities such as the hispanic community. English Canada has been generous and tolerant in the past but are growing weary of giving with nothing coming back in return. English Canada would not have to make any cultural or language adjustments in joining an American Union. Any attempts for Quebec to form a union with other nations unaligned iwth the US would be resisted by diplomatic and military means.
Quebec has limited options; the status quo or a short lived and uncertain independence. Will the globalists exploit Quebec's nationalistic sentiments in a similar fashion to General Dynamics? Certainly Separatist Politicans are on the globalist payroll just as those in Ottawa. Quebec would be best advised to consider it's options very carefully.

reply to post by the cynic jester


youd understand haha nice south park reference

As a B.Cer It's kind of a running joke around here to say Quebec threatens to seperate everytime it has an issue and nothing ever comes of it. I would be intrested in seeing it happen even if it failed just as a shake up to the folks in power.

On topic....I think it would be great and would give other seperatist movements around the world inspiration. It would, of course, worry and irritate all the powers that be, such as the US government, for one. More power to them if that's the course they want to take.

reply to post by Ben81


The rest of Canada wants you to be free as well.

Goodbye!!

reply to post by ExNihilo


First off I'll admit...I'm from Ontario...apologies beforehand if my location upsets you. I was around for the 1995 referendum and remember all us at work listening to the radio as the votes came in, it was pretty close in the end and it had everyone worried. The sentiment at the time was that if Quebece does seperate then both Canada and Quebec would suffer, not really a wise investment or place to keep your business if things are looking shakey right ? I may be inncorrect on this but even after losing the referendum a lot of companies packed their bags and moved to T-Dot(Toronto) from Montreal.

There was a lot of sabre rattling back in 1995 as well from the Federal Government... threats, sanctions, taking back military equipment, getting the U.S not to include Quebec in NAFTA, backing up the the Aboriginals in their own seperation from Quebec etc etc. I've seen a couple other posts concerning this and I concur that with Harper and the Conservatives in right now the reaction would be much worse than Chretian and the Liberals in 95. As rediculous as it sounds one of the notions back in 95 was "Hey....those F-18 Hornets are Canadian and we'll be getting them back if you seperate thankyou"......Yes, for the Non-Canadians here even our threats are polite.

Personally I believe that if a province or state for that matter wants to seperate from their country, then a more than just 50 % plus one vote should be required. Even at a 55% "Yes" note you've got 45% of the population disgruntled(err....ok...maybe not as everyone doesn't vote of course but hopefully the point is made). Hence the "Clarity Act" of 2000 which states;

"any future referendum would have to be on a "clear question" and that it would have to represent a "clear majority" for the federal Parliament to recognize its validity"

I can understand from a Quebecois point of view this is a way of the Federal Government playing dirty. All I'm saying is that the Federal Government will use this in the event of a only 50% plus one vote.

Anyways...babbling on a bit, to answer the question about if Canada would survive given Quebecs seperation.....My answer to that would be "Not Likely"....but there are too many variables to consider, some of which were listed above, and others in their posts......Everything from Civil War to putting massive tariffs on Quebecs Cheese......In any event what would happen would be quite nasty regardless if it was just tariffs or military conflict....it would result in intervention from either the U.N, the U.S or the World Trade Organization, at which point both of use lose either economically or our sovereignty.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by Ben81

 

The rest of Canada wants you to be free as well.

Goodbye!!

lol the irony...

Quebeckers may give Marois the election but that doesn't mean they want to separate. Hell, if they didn't want to in the tumultuous times of the 70's early 80's under Lévesque what makes anyone think they will now? Not happening.

So, if Quebec succeeds then their sister state could be Louisiana?

Cajuns in arms so to speak?

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
So, if Quebec succeeds then their sister state could be Louisiana?

Cajuns in arms so to speak?

Not really. Canada has long been a bilingual nation. Major French influences in Nova Scotia(where you Louisianans came from ) New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba. It's actually all through our nation but those are the major areas.

If they do manage to get through the referendum this time, then Quebec is going to owe the rest of Canada A LOT of money.

And we'll get to save all sorts of money by not being forced to write French on everything just to accommodate them. And we'll still have Alberta (oil) and the Prairie provinces (food). They'll have to raise taxes (AND the university fees, chew on that you self-entitled whiners), to maintain their infrastructure.

Franky I'm hoping we can convince all the provinces West of Ontario to secede into our own little universe as well.

We'll accept Yukon too.. maybe NWT. Quebec can keep Nunavut.

reply to post by juniperberry


Well thank you for that rousing display of national pride. Bluenoser in Ontario is getting mighty sick of the western attitude lately. My Canada includes Quebec. It even includes whiny people from the west of the 100th meridian.

reply to post by ExNihilo

We are 8 million people, we will do just fine with immigration.

Good, I'm sure France would love to unload it's Algerian population to Quebec.
For those who lived in France knows what I mean. lol

Quebec has been trying to separate forever, What they fail to realize is that the rest of Canada won't ever let it happen...I hope the Quebec party is willing to go to war because the rest of Canada definitely is...