Obama's Role In Satan's Great Plan

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Is there anything other than Paul's claim,

"It is appointed for a man to die once, and then the Judgement,"

which is in direct contradiction to Jesus, who said

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

that supports your claim that reincarnation isn't Christian?

How about

Are not my few days almost over?
Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy
before I go to the place of no return,
to the land of gloom and utter darkness,
to the land of deepest night,
of utter darkness and disorder,
where even the light is like darkness. (Job 10:20-22 NIV)

It's pretty poetry isn't it? Here's on of my favorites.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

or maybe

But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me. (2 Samuel 12:23 NIV)

How about the words of Jesus?

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41 NIV)

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:28-29 NIV)

There are dozens more, but the question that really arises is "where is YOUR evidence that Judaism and Christianity support the concept of reincarnation?"

Waiting to hear your insightful answer. In all my years of asking, the only responses that I have received were invalid and/or vapid.

I think that we both can agree that Jesus promised to those that "believed" that they would not die, but have everlasting life. If believers are lying in their graves, waiting for the right time to begin their "everlasting life" then Jesus is a liar, as they dead, even if only temporarily.

Can we agree that the soul never dies and is awakened through the Holly Spirit? Why would there be a need to suspended the awakened soul's expression of spirituality after physical death? Jesus promises believers will not be judged, so Judgement Day is moot to them.

Can we agree that Christians are waiting for Jesus to return and establish Heaven on Earth? If so, why wouldn't the soul of a believer still be active in the assistance in achieving the "Great Work" just as the living Christians do? Why do they become irrelevant after death?

As a person who is awakened and "saved" through belief in Jesus, one may be given a great task by God. Perhaps a task as great as being a founding father of a great nation. Is it impossible to think that God would send that soul back from time to time to continue to contribute to the continuation of the visionary essence he was tasked, by God in the first place, to help put in place?

The soul never dies and is owned by on one. The death that we are trying to avoid is the death of the ego. The ego dies with the body. Thus, a fresh start, free of bias and self importance, to live and experience this plain of life again.

reply to post by windword


Sorry, I guess that you must have missed the actual question. Here it is again:

There are dozens more, but the question that really arises is "where is YOUR evidence that Judaism and Christianity support the concept of reincarnation?"

What you have presented is conjecture and theory on your part. While it might make for an interesting discussion, your opinion is not evidence that Judaism and Christianity support the concept of reincarnation.

You asked for scriptural refutation of reincarnation, which I provided. Kindly return the favour, with scriptural evidence that Judaism and Christianity teach that reincarnation is real.

reply to post by adjensen


I'm really more interested in what Jesus was teaching, and the philosophies that arise from those teachings, than throwing around scriptural interpretation of Old Testament poetry and folk lore or the musings of Paul. I know that you believe that these things define Christianity. But, it is my belief that it is the teachings of Jesus that defines it.

However, there is plenty of evidence that Hebrews did believe in the concept of reincarnation. Therefore, Jesus was familiar with the subject and may have addressed it, cryptically.

There are many Jewish sources dealing with what is popularly
called "reincarnation." In Hebrew, it is called "gilgul
ha'ne'shamot," literally the recycling or transmigration of
souls.

This concept can be compared to a flame of one candle lighting
another candle. While the essence of the second flame comes from
the first one, the second flame is an independent entity.

Still, the new flame contains imperfections inherited from the
initial flame, and it is these imperfections that are to be
corrected.

Most of the written material is very esoteric, often written in
Aramaic. Some of the prominent works dealing with this subject
are the "Zohar" (1st century) and the Arizal's "Shaar HaGilgulim"
(16th century). In the Bible itself, the idea is intimated in
Deut. 25:5-10, Deut. 33:6 and Isaiah 22:14, 65:6.

Many sources say that a soul has a maximum of three chances in
this world. One example given is that the great Talmudic sage
Hillel was a reincarnation of the Biblical figure Aaron.

The soul only comes into this world in the first place in order
to make a spiritual repair. If that is not fulfilled by the end
of one's lifetime, then the soul will be sent down once again.
The return trip may only be needed for a short time or in a
limited way. This in part explains why people are born with
handicaps or may live a brief life.

judaism.about.com...

The commentary that I posted is a philosophical view of the teachings of Jesus, and an explanation of my belief that he taught the concept of self determined reincarnation.

Can you discuss the conundrum of everlasting life and dead saints lying in their graves, waiting for Jesus to awaken them? Can you discuss anything that I presented?

reply to post by adjensen

“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:28-29 NIV)

Wasn't there reports of the dead rising from their graves at the time of the Crucifixion? Just because there are some souls in graves, doesn't meant that all souls actually stay in their graves How long until they "hear" the voice 3 days? 3 years? 2000+ years?

Actually there is only one person who can be reincarnated. That person is Jesus.

Think about it.

How else would he be able to come back again?

Of course I'm sure the Christians would have another word for it and will try to make a bs semantics argument.

but when you come right down to it, if you come back again after you died, and are reborn in another body, well that's reincarnation regardless of the games others may wish to play.

Yes, I am God for I KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Actually there is only one person who can be reincarnated. That person is Jesus.

Think about it.

How else would he be able to come back again?

Of course I'm sure the Christians would have another word for it and will try to make a bs semantics argument.

but when you come right down to it, if you come back again after you died, and are reborn in another body, well that's reincarnation regardless of the games others may wish to play.

Yes, I am God for I KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW.

Jesus was not "reborn" in another body, he was raised in his own body and he had the scars to prove it:

John 20:26-29

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Resurrection, not reincarnation and we will be raised in like manner as he, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting damnation in Gehenna.

Damn, this just shows I must be more proficient in who I believe to be of the father.
Fake christians? What a cruel joke on humanity,.

Obama isn't the A/C. The a/c is a spirit. The adversary of love. Some men may wish to dig themselves into deeper holes than others..

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Actually there is only one person who can be reincarnated. That person is Jesus.

Think about it.

How else would he be able to come back again?

Of course I'm sure the Christians would have another word for it and will try to make a bs semantics argument.

but when you come right down to it, if you come back again after you died, and are reborn in another body, well that's reincarnation regardless of the games others may wish to play.

Yes, I am God for I KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW.

G

Originally posted by windword
The commentary that I posted is a philosophical view of the teachings of Jesus, and an explanation of my belief that he taught the concept of self determined reincarnation.

Sure, but I never asked for your philosophy, I asked for scriptural evidence, just as you asked from me. Noting that some Jews were aware of the concept does not mean that the religion supports it.

Can you discuss the conundrum of everlasting life and dead saints lying in their graves, waiting for Jesus to awaken them? Can you discuss anything that I presented?

As I said, your comments are the basis for what might be an interesting discussion, but this thread is an inappropriate place for it, given that it is off topic. If you'd like to create a new thread on the subject, I would happily join it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I personally don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, but survived the crucifixion. But for the sake of argument, let's say he did.

Are we to believe that his broken, run down FLESH body, that still bore the scars from his ordeal, that needed a rock to be moved on his behalf so that he could leave his tomb and needed to dress in a gardener's clothing, this body that stated he was hungry and then ate fish and honey comb, is the same kind of perfected eternal body that we should expect?

If someone was beheaded, will they walk around heaven with their head in their hands, bearing the evidence of their martyrdom?

I think not. Our eternal bodies are spiritual bodies. We already have them.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Further example that the faithful believers, will not be fetered, by death, sleeping in their graves, but will be free as the wind, to express spirituality, even if that means wedding the creation again.

reply to post by adjensen


Perhaps you're right, this subject is off topic, and for that I apologize to the OP!

But I didn't start it, lol, I got caught up in the conversation!

I would like to discuss some of these things further, but I think it would be difficult to address the many open ended facets and the various conversations and queries.

Also, I feel guilty enough for spending too much time here this weekend, as I have a deadline to meet. So maybe sometime in the future we can pick this up again.

OP: Obama isn't the AntiChrist. Paul was! Seriously!

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Damn, this just shows I must be more proficient in who I believe to be of the father.
Fake christians? What a cruel joke on humanity,.

Obama isn't the A/C. The a/c is a spirit. The adversary of love. Some men may wish to dig themselves into deeper holes than others..

Ofcourse there are wolves in sheeps clothing, Jesus said there would be himself. No Obama isn't The Antichrist, but he's one of them. There are psuedos, theyre called Nicolaitans in the bible.

reply to post by windword

I personally don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, but survived the crucifixion. But for the sake of argument, let's say he did.

Then you're ignoring OT prophecy from God himself saying he would die for the sins of the world.

Are we to believe that his broken, run down FLESH body, that still bore the scars from his ordeal, that needed a rock to be moved on his behalf so that he could leave his tomb and needed to dress in a gardener's clothing, this body that stated he was hungry and then ate fish and honey comb, is the same kind of perfected eternal body that we should expect?

The rock wasn't removed to let Jesus out, it was removed to let Mary his mother and Mary Magdalen in to find an empty tomb and his grave clothes. When Jesus went to the Upper Room to show Thomas his wounds he walked through the closed door and then allowed Thomas to touch him. What you seem to fail at grasping was his body was changed to a glorified body, no longer in a fallen state of humiliation and yes you can eat in a glorified body even though it is no longer required to sustain your body.

Matthew 28:1-6

Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead men.

5 But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

If someone was beheaded, will they walk around heaven with their head in their hands, bearing the evidence of their martyrdom?

Nope, they will be healed. Thats what resurrection is, the healing of your body and spirit. Spirits of the believers in the Living God will go to him when they die, and on resurrection day they will be reinstalled in their new glorified bodies but it will be their bodies. Case in point the day Jesus resurrected it was reported that the dead who believed he would come resurrected and they walked around, and talked to and were seen by their decendants and family. Now in order for their family to recognize them, they had to be in their bodies.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Damn, this just shows I must be more proficient in who I believe to be of the father.
Fake christians? What a cruel joke on humanity,.

Obama isn't the A/C. The a/c is a spirit. The adversary of love. Some men may wish to dig themselves into deeper holes than others..

Ofcourse there are wolves in sheeps clothing, Jesus said there would be himself. No Obama isn't The Antichrist, but he's one of them. There are psuedos, theyre called Nicolaitans in the bible.

Thank you, I wasn't sure what the correct term was (nicolatians) They're humans that have simply fallen from grace twice?
My understanding is that these people come from every segment of society, They actively campaign against the god of love using deception and fear to manipulate people into doing their dirty work.
As I said before, I'm new, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Sometimes I even feel isolated because people around me aren't picking up on the deceptions that are presented in plain sight.
I don't say anything because I believe that the best way to learn is to develop passion first, and then you will gravitate towards the truth naturally,

For example: Obama. MANY people fell for his slick words but some noticed the deception and were called all sorts of names..Isolated and called crazy etc

reply to post by HamrHeed


www.biblestudy.org...

This will help you to understand who they are. To put it all in laymens terms the Nicolaitans are those shepherds who scatter and destroy Yeshua's flocks, to which he promises recompense against in the OT. Jeremiah 23 goes into some details about these shepherds who lead his sheep astray. The pharisees are also another example of Nicolaitans, because they heaped on the people unecessary fence laws that they themselves wouldn't even follow and when Jesus called them on it they refused to repent and sought to kill him. In Matthew 23 Jesus confronts them again. A preacher/rabbi/priest that doesn't feed the sheep really pisses Jesus off, not a pretty picture what he says he's going to do to them in the OT.