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The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

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posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 09:40 PM
reply to post by The GUT

Well, as long as you've gone and whipped out the Finders. Psychiatrist and Pulitzer winner John Mack relates his experiences with abductees:

Mack met Budd Hopkins in January 1990, and was impressed both by the man and the case histories of alleged UFO abductions he had collected over the years. "The stories didn't sound at all like dreams or fantasies to me," says Mack, his voice resonant with authority. "It sounded like something real was happening. (oh yeah, it was real all right -ed) And I thought, well, if this is real, what is it? Then Budd asked if I wanted to see some of these people, and I realized I was crossing some kind of line, but I said yes."

Since then, Mack has heard abduction stories from people of all walks of life. "Forty years of psychiatry," he says, "has given me no way to explain what I'm encountering in my interviews and hypnosis sessions of these individuals. Something is going on; something is happening to these people. I'm convinced of it."

In fact, Mack has done as much as TREAT to bring anomalous trauma to center stage in the professional domain. He has spoken freely with the media about his interest and has given talks and participated in private conferences on the subject. Colleagues who hear him speak often raise the issue of whether UFO abduction stories might not be covers for episodes of sexual abuse and incest in childhood. But according to Mack, the reverse has been the case. "There is not a single known case of the thousands that have been investigated where exploring or looking into the abduction story revealed behind it an incest or sexual-abuse history," he says, "but therapists looking for incest stories have come up with UFO abduction memories instead."


All those runaways and army brats in the seventies and eighties: planting hundreds (maybe thousands) of abduction experiences like seeds. Reinforced the quick and dirty way via sexual trauma and drugs. Twenty years later, a crop of witnesses springs up to testify that your fledgling mythform, around which you have cultivated much awe and skepticism, is God's own truth.

Not to say that being abducted by ET's doesn't also occur, or may exclusively occur (the MKUltra sideshow being a whopping great herring), and it may also be that no one has ever been abducted at all.

Looped. I'm shutting my mind off now.
edit on 21-9-2012 by Eidolon23 because: .

posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 10:20 PM
reply to post by The GUT

WRT the remote viewers, you must be talking about 'Dr. Doom' (Dames) who was never a remote viewer, but only a monitor and sometimes a tasker. He would routinely assign 'practice' ufo and other non-feedback targets to the viewers. He certainly was/is obsessed with ufos. If results indicate intent, then Doom may have gone to the discredit/disinfo dark side. All of his 'predictions' have failed miserably. Viewers didn't like the ufo targets because there would be no feedback possibility, a necessary component for the viewers, as reinforcement. So far as I know, drugs only deadened the ability to view and were not used. The only altered mental states I have read about were those induced by hemi-sync (binaural beats), meditation, and the like, prior to a session and some disorientation immediately after a session, lasting a few minutes, for at least one viewer.

Not sure where you're getting this info, but some of the military viewers have a web presence and I'm pretty sure if you asked them directly, they would chat with you about the issues you bring up.

posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 11:00 PM
reply to post by gguyx

Some of our Aviary friends take Dames seriously enough for some reason. Stubblebine and Alexander went into business with him in the now defunct PSI-TECH:

Retired Major General Albert N. Stubblebine (Former Director of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command) and Alexander are on the board of a "remote viewing" company called PSI-TECH. The company also employs Major Edward Dames (ex Defense Intelligence Agency), Major David Morehouse (ex 82nd Airborne Division), and Ron Blackburn (former microwave scientist and specialist at Kirkland Air Force Base).

Sounds like you read Schnabel's book--and more I'm sure--but maybe some of the details that Schnabel basically skimmed and glossed-over didn't strike you.

There was mention of dissociative states and "bilocation" events that the remote viewers found disturbing along with various instances where the RV'ers felt they were dealing with threatening entities not to mention the psychiatric treatment a couple of the guys ended up in for some admittedly debatable reasons.

The hemi-synch and related stuff you mention at the Monroe Institute are interesting as well.

One thing is certain, it wasn't just after Ingo Swann left that the Rv'ers went to UFOville in a big way. And the connections to the Aviary--and it's message--is deeper than is generally understood.

I'll be elaborating more later from various sources.

A lot of the ideas presented here--especially in the last page or two--have been around for awhile. As more information comes to light little by little, and as the concepts have had time to incubate, I do believe the theory of MK tactics as relates to Ufology and related arenas is starting to bloom and attract not only the community but some solid researchers. We'll see.

edit on 21-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Eidolon23

All those runaways and army brats in the seventies and eighties: planting hundreds (maybe thousands) of abduction experiences like seeds. Reinforced the quick and dirty way via sexual trauma and drugs. Twenty years later, a crop of witnesses springs up to testify that your fledgling mythform, around which you have cultivated much awe and skepticism, is God's own truth.

Not to say that being abducted by ET's doesn't also occur, or may exclusively occur (the MKUltra sideshow being a whopping great herring), and it may also be that no one has ever been abducted at all.

Looped. I'm shutting my mind off now.

Bravo, Eidy. I do hope that after your much deserved loop break you will continue kicking ass.

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 02:02 AM
reply to post by The GUT

Thanks for that.

Just for comedic purposes, here's a phone conversation between Armen Victorian and Ed Dames. Two bull #ters shooting the # about remote viewing and UFO's.

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 02:09 AM
reply to post by The GUT

Stubblebine and Alexander weren't remote viewers. Neither was Doom. He was a monitor and sometimes a tasker. None of the viewers, IIRC, took Doom's business offers. For their own good reasons. It seems he 'trained' a cadre of viewers and tasked them as a group. A case of the blind leading the blind, if results mean anything. Using this method, both Doom and Brown claimed there was a spaceship traveling with Hale Bopp, which then became the trigger of convenience for the mass suicide of the Heaven's Gate cult. Doom embellished this with predictions that plant pathogens released from the space ship would wipe out all plant life on earth. He ain't known as 'Dr Doom' fer nothin', ya know.

If the birdmen took Doom seriously, look for alternate reasons, like disinfo/discredit. It's likely that there's more rv data on ufos, remember that like 90% of the taskings by the alphabetmen is still classified, and will likely remain so, maybe forever.

The notion of factions within the Air Force of the early days applies to the alphabetmen during star gate times also, and those who tasked them. One viewer tells of a test done of his ability at a secret meeting. After describing in detail the target, he was told, paraphrasing now: 'You, sir are going straight to hell!' Dealing with them was described as having a knife fight in a phone booth. My opinion is that the two main factions consist of the pragmatists and the holy rollers. Imagine 'Manifest Destiny' 2.0 -- that should give some idea.

One partial implication alluded to concerning the dismantling of the unit was that no secret was safe, not even our own secrets, from our own guys. There may be those to whom this would be intolerable. This is akin to cutting off the nose to spite the face, but there you have it. Again, it's instructive to look at Sign, Grudge, Blue Book, etc each to replace the former. But all the while the hard data goes into a black hole.

Can we infer that there's an ATS unit working under the radar? I don't know, those who would know aren't saying. We do know that many countries have sought out talent among their people -- China being prominent. Take countries whose name begins with 'i'; Ireland, Israel, Indonesia, India, Italy, maybe Iran -- these all have rv programs.

Causes one to take pause...

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 01:11 PM

Originally posted by chrisb9
reply to post by Druscilla

I was thinking about posting and posing this - Hypothetical Question - to The GUT and / or Anyone else who might want to comment or lend their thoughts on this Hypothetical.

Lets say, just for the sake of this "Hypothetical Question" that you are "The Almighty The Creator of Earth"
The angels are reporting to you daily the current situation on earth with the many nations that have advanced weapons of all types. Weapons that are very deadly and life on earth ending weapons like nuclear bombs etc.

Ah, I assume you are substituting "The Almighty The Creator of Earth" for "alien race that seeded the Earth" and "angels" for "alien visitors". But you know what I picture? I picture a human with mind-boggling amounts of power trying to put himself in the Almighty's place.

A. Let the Nations Fight it Out and Nuke each other and destroy All Life on Earth Forever - Who Cares - you are The Almighty, your creation didn't listen to you and did not want to live in peace, so let them just blow each other to pieces and end it all...

Probably has its appeal on some days to those whom have had to see up close and personal the evil humans visit upon one another. "Let it all burn."

But I vote this one down.

B. Since you are "The Almighty" you can just let the Sun send out some Gigantic Solar Flares for 2 Days in a row. The first day would wipe out all satellites and power grids on 1/2 of the earth and the second day would wipe out the other 1/2 of earth's satellites and power grids. This action would plunge the people on earth back to living in a stone age type of living conditons and probably kill 2/3 of life on earth, but 1/3 of the people on earth would live.

Seems like a pretty efficient solution: at least you can contain/control for the hideous ecological fallout sure to be on the heels of a seemingly inevitable Malthusian correction coming down the pipeline.

I vote this one down, too. We've got a few decades left to do some overhauling of our major institutions- we've just got to pull together and get the lead out.


C. Anyone's thoughts or additional options on this Hypothetical Question.

Well, I'll tell you what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't cripple my newly Enlightened population developmentally through consumerism and crappy education, blame them for the consequences, and then synthesize a new Religion because they can't be relied upon to govern themselves.

I'd work on making a better, more socially engaged and autonomous citizenry. The Great Disarmament would flow from that process quite naturally within a few decades, I think. And we're finding better ways to mitigate our environmental impact all the time- most of those depending on lifestyle modification at the citizen-level.
edit on 22-9-2012 by Eidolon23 because: .

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 03:27 PM
reply to post by gguyx

Since no one involved with the program states it was anywhere near 90% accurate, it's my suspicion that if 90% of the RV material is still classified it's for reasons other than it's stunning accuracy.

The project, as it should have been, was considered "human use experimentation." The early funding from the project came from MK-ULTRA Chief Dr. Sidney Gottlieb and the MK connections run rampant throughout the program. That's not to say that there wasn't interest in psi ability, but rather that some of the mind-effing techniques studied were believed to be related to clairvoyance.

The involvement of Dr. Jack Vorona, who the Remote Viewing team saw as their protector, is a point that I think is overlooked.

In the 157 Congressional Record Dr. Vorona is recognized:

Mr. CONNOLLY of Virginia. Mr. Speaker, I rise to recognize Dr. Jack Vorona of Falls Church, Virginia for his induction into the De- fense Intelligence Agency’s Torch Bearers Hall. DIA established Torch Bearers Hall this year to coincide with its 50th anniversary and to recognize former employees who have made exceptional contributions to its mission.

Dr. Vorona’s invaluable leadership in devel- oping scientific and technical intelligence pro- grams during the height of the Cold War helped keep Americans safe and secured him a spot among the eight inaugural recipients of this honor.

Many of the characters we have spoken about here were no lightweights when it comes to the highest positions in the scientific sector of the intelligence apparatus and Jack Vorona was right up there.

One of the projects he oversaw was code-named Sleeping Beauty which dealt with how microwaves affected the human mind. I wonder if our human use experimentation group of RV'ers were part of such experiments? I think there is a pretty good chance of that.

The disinformation on microwave and ELF has been highly successful. When folk hear the terms the mind seems to shut off. I can understand it, mine used to as well. But the fact is that it's a powerful technology that has been researched for years:

Concrete evidence that electronic mind control was an object of study at SRI was exposed by the Washington Post in 1977: "When the Navy awarded a contract to the Institute, the scientific assistant to the Secretary of the Navy, Dr. Sam Koslov, received a routine briefing on various research projects, including SRIs.

As the briefer flashed his chart onto the screen and began to speak, Koslov stormily interrupted, What the hell is that about? Among the glowing words on the projected chart, the section describing SRIs work was labelled, ELF AND MIND CONTROL.

ELF stands for extremely [low] frequency electromagnetic waves, from the very slow brain frequencies up to about 100 cycles per second….

It's sad that the subject has been so clouded by the red herrings of disinformation because it's become increasingly obvious to me that therein lies the answer to many of our mysteries. Another name connected with Remote Viewing and Dr. Jack Vorona is Michael Persinger:

During the 1980s he stimulated people's temporal lobes artificially with a weak magnetic field to see if he could induce a religious state (see God helmet).

He claimed that the field could produce the sensation of "an ethereal presence in the room". This research has received wide coverage in the media, with high profile visitors to Persinger's lab Susan Blackmore and Richard Dawkins reporting positive and negative results respectively.

Unsurprisingly enough, these very same effects were noted by most, if not all, of the remote viewers. Definitely in the things that make me go "Hmmm" category. As of late he's also being wiring-up & zapping Ingo Swann directly:

In 1974 Persinger proposed that extremely low frequency (ELF) electromagnetic waves may be able to carry telepathic and clairvoyant information.[9] Persinger has published reports of rudimentary 'telepathic' communication between pairs of subjects in the laboratory.

He has also published increases in remote viewing accuracy of remote viewer Ingo Swann, as measured by a group of ratings of congruence (between Swann's drawings and the locale being 'viewed') by 40 experimentally blind participants[12] during stimulation with complex magnetic fields using a circumcerebral (around the head) eight-channel system.


edit on 22-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 03:27 PM
Enter the "Jolly Mon" Dr. Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West who is said to have been medical oversight officer for the RV'ers:

In a document released under the Freedom of Information Act, for example, it was revealed that more than four decades ago, the CIA sought to set West up in a clandestine laboratory to perform “mind-control” experiments with hypnosis and '___'. A portion of the experiments with '___' and other drugs in which West was enmeshed at the CIA’s behest were exposed in the mid-1970s by the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, chaired by Senator Frank Church.

Dr. "Jolly" West

 West contributed to the early work which resulted in, among other things, the death of tennis pro Harold Blauer in an experiment with a mescaline derivative in New York City in 1953. The Senate Select Committee’s investigation revealed drugging of unsuspecting targets, electric shocking to obliterate memory and “programming” individuals to kill — acting under psychiatric control.

There's more to the RV story than meets the eye.

edit on 22-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 04:28 PM

Originally posted by freelance_zenarchist
reply to post by The GUT

Thanks for that.

Just for comedic purposes, here's a phone conversation between Armen Victorian and Ed Dames. Two bull #ters shooting the # about remote viewing and UFO's.

That was AWESOME, FreeZen. Thank you.

Funny and a obscure bit of ufology/Rv history. Anything else you got along those same lines please share.

posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 10:39 AM
reply to post by The GUT

Since no one involved with the program states it was anywhere near 90% accurate, it's my suspicion that if 90% of the RV material is still classified it's for reasons other than it's stunning accuracy.

First, accuracy was deemed to be around 70%.
Second, information was simultaneously judged against other methods of intel.
Third, it's much more likely the 90% was deemed too sensitive to release, maybe ever. Intel wouldn't want to tip their their hand as to just what they know.

When the English broke the German codes at Bletchley during WW2, that fact would have obviously have been worthless if the Germans knew. Had the Germans known they would have likely fed the English false information.

posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:17 PM

Originally posted by gguyx
First, accuracy was deemed to be around 70%.

I can't find anything that states anywhere near that number, gguyx. Puthoff claimed, at one time, conversationally, 40% but that was not only highly disputed, I don't think he's ever published anything peer reviewed where he states that kind of success rate.

Somewhat higher than statistical average for chance seems to be all that can be claimed and argued scientifically. If I'm not mistaken, I think I saw 15% associated with that.

I believe there's something to it, I just believe, from the available information that I've come across, that it didn't prove itself operationally.

Saying that we can never know because a lot of the information is classified, while at the same time the program was apparently shut down and the most experienced/accurate RV'ers were put out to pasture doesn't provide a convincing case for any outstanding efficacy it would seem.

My mind is open, however, to any information otherwise, as long as it looks like it has teeth and not totally anecdotal in nature.

posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 09:01 PM
reply to post by The GUT

I can't find anything that states anywhere near that number, gguyx. Puthoff claimed, at one time, conversationally, 40% but that was not only highly disputed, I don't think he's ever published anything peer reviewed where he states that kind of success rate.

Hal Puthoff was in on the early stuff. After Swann and others set down the protocols in the manual, and after talent was identified, recruited and trained, the unit began operations.

The 70% figure I gleaned from the handful of the best military viewers: Mcmoneagle, Buchanan, Pettingell, Price, Riley, Smith. Needless to say, these were the cream of the crop. Smith describes it like playing piano: anybody can learn to play but not everyone can be a Mozart.

There are years of posts from most of these. I find them to be credible. YMMV.

/I believe there's something to it, I just believe, from the available information that I've come across, that it didn't prove itself operationally.

Third parties aren't really the best sources for accurate information. Then consider how successful the disinfo campaign has been for you to come to this tentative conclusion. The very effort to discredit should raise some red flags.

Saying that we can never know because a lot of the information is classified, while at the same time the program was apparently shut down and the most experienced/accurate RV'ers were put out to pasture doesn't provide a convincing case for any outstanding efficacy it would seem.

Yes, the old plausible deniability. Or the fear factor of the strongest intel faction was so extreme a decision was made to end the program and discredit the viewers. Enter Dr Doom. After Doom blew their cover all they had left was 'plausible deniability'. This action killed two birds (though not birdmen) with one stone; getting rid of uncomfortable psychics who knew too much and discrediting anything they may say down the line.

Who knows, maybe there's a new bunch now deep under cover doing the same things, or maybe the science boys worked up a tv-like device that lets them tune in on whatever they're interested in, without the human element mucking up the works.

That's my take on it anyway.

Much the work done for various companies by ex-mils include non-disclosure clauses. Then there are the missing kids cases, which take precedence and require privacy for families and law enforcement, both.

My mind is open, however, to any information otherwise, as long as it looks like it has teeth and not totally anecdotal in nature.

That's good. I'd suggest consulting books written by those closest involved, excluding Doom. And there are archives of many years of posts by these viewers themselves. Some still post on the net fairly frequently. Alternatively, you might, like Schnabel, try your hand at it yourself. Buchanan, for example, has a 'target of the week' page, with basic instructions and feedback.

Nothing like knowledge through experience.

I suppose it's a little like the UFO data, the more one digs, the more one finds. With a growing preponderance of data, a larger picture emerges. I admit this takes some time and effort.

posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 09:47 PM
reply to post by gguyx

I just downloaded Reading the Enemy's Mind: Inside Star Gate: America's Psychic Espionage Program by respected remote viewing insider Paul H. Smith, Major, US Army (ret.) on Kindle, but it'll have to wait for a day or two as I'm juggling three books on related subject matter at the moment.

Fascinating stuff, that's fer sure.

Col. John B. Alexander with a copy of Reading the Enemy's Mind

posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
By the way, various members of the Aviary have written books and articles about ufology. Some are easy to obtain (and I have several of them), while some are a bit harder to purchase. In relation to the latter, I have recently contacted C B Scott Jones and obtained his permission to upload a scanned copy of his book "Phoenix in the Labyrinth" to a free file storage website. It contains the text of a collection of lectures by C B Scott Jones. It is difficult to obtain via second-hand book sellers (including Amazon, Abebooks etc) but I am seeking to arrange that scanning at the moment.

I've now posted a link for that book, and a few extracts, at:

posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
In another thread here on ATS in relation to the Aviary we do have an email from Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green addressing many of the questions that have arisen over the years in regards to many of the issues addressed here.

Springer got the kind permission Of Dr. Green to post his response to both courteous questions and inflammatory accusations offered over the years. I do, after reading it have some questions and doubts about some of Kit's assertions, but who knows what myriad of reasons an intelligence professional might have to throw a smokescreen when it comes to secret clearances and related topics.

I shouldn't have to remind anyone here that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green seems--for all intents and purposes--to have been strategically involved in the propagation of both MJ-12 and Serpo hoaxes/memes/disinfo…whatever you prefer. If you don't believe that's been demonstrated here, I suggest that there is much solid and revealing research out there and if you don't care enough about the topic to study it then the onus is on you.

In the re-printed email below Dr. Green provides many plausible explanations for various topics on which I take him at face-value so-to-speak. Certain areas, however perk up my ears, as they did another poster who I'll also quote below.

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green

From an Email received by Springer from Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green:

I have never, in any way...manner...shape...or form been involved in "Mind Control" research, nor do I know anyone, personally, who has been...with the single exception of Dr. Sid Gottlieb...whom I met briefly twice in 1971. The "Brother Blue"Goblins of Langley is partially true...but not those parts! I also met Joslyn West, MD, PhD...who has been claimed to have been involved in Mind Control research on the web. It is a lie, in my personal opinion. He said he was not, and I believed him. I worked with him for many years after I left Government full-time employment, from about 1987 until he died a few years ago. A more ethical and honorable physician I have never met. I am in good company to be accused of false things like being involved in "Mind Control." He was too busy at Harvard Medical School being the Chair at the I suspect that is made up. The MKULTRA program, ARTICHOKE, and BLUEBIRD psychopharmacology efforts ended from 7 to 15 years before I ever entered into government service, in 1969. I do not believe Remote Viewing is Mind Control...but if anyone does...then they might think I was a mind control person, however.

Kit Green's timing did overlap with Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, but maybe more importantly, so did some of their research.

We've established that Dr. Sidney Gottlieb brought some of the first funds to the remote viewing project. It's also been noted here--I think--that as early as Project Bluebird the intel-scientists had an interest in psi (formerly known as the paranormal.) Kit, in turn, was scientific liaison between SRI remote viewing and the CIA.

Dr. Sidney Gottlieb

Though the most prominently discussed aspect of MKULTRA is the CIA's '___' work, the program included many other unusual investigations relating to the science of mind control. CIA researchers probed the potential of numerous parapsychological phenomena, including hypnosis, telepathy, precognition, photokinesis and "remote viewing."

And from Gerald Haine's History of the CIA:

…CIA also maintained Intelligence Community coordination with other agencies regarding their work in parapsychology, psychic phenomena, and "remote viewing" experiments...

...During the late 1970s and 1980s, the Agency continued its low-key interest in UFOs and UFO sightings. While most scientists now dismissed flying saucers reports as a quaint part of the 1950s and 1960s, some in the Agency and in the Intelligence Community shifted their interest to studying parapsychology and psychic phenomena associated with UFO sightings.

It is interesting to note, I think, that whatever the governments intel sciences were learning about phenomenology, consciousness, and the brain, they were definitely starting to equate UFOS and PSI.

posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
Whether MK projects continued officially or not, we can be sure that scientists took what they learned with them into their other funded projects.

For example, both Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ of SRI/Remote Viewing fame (and Dr. Jolyon West for that matter) are listed by Dr. Colin Wilson as having been involved in research that was funded by the MK-ULTRA umbrella.

Puthoff and Targ are also expert in laser break-throughs and research which also have an interesting part to play in psi/phenomenology.

At one point, months before CIA’s secret abuses of mind-control were partially exposed in Washington, Director of Central Intelligence Richard Helms ordered the MKULTRA mind control files to be destroyed.

A few seeds of MKULTRA remained. Sidney Gottlieb of Technical Services at CIA carefully planted them into a new research program. Gottlieb, considered to be the father of the MKULTRA mind-control effort, authorized CIA sponsorship of the Stanford Research Institute psychic research program.

Dr. Green, as representative of CIA’s aptly named '___' (Life Sciences Division), was tasked to follow up on the activities initiated by Gottlieb’s division.


We'll also see in a section from the email below, that Kit was, understandably, in his top-science status at the agency, familiar and well-briefed with prior government experimentation.

I also, so far, disagree that Dr. Jolyon "Jolly" West wasn't connected to MK-ULTRA research. Especially '___' experimentation. He also had unique understanding of "Cults" that we'll explore another time.

And, one time, at MK-ULTRA camp, Dr. West first overdosed an elephant on '___', and then apparently killed it by trying to use more pharmacology to 'bring the poor tripping elephant "down." Hey, it's hard to bring a tripping elephant down by talking to it ya' know.

One of the more unusual incidents of West's career came in August 1962, when he and two co-workers attempted to investigate the phenomenon of musth by dosing Tusko, a bull elephant at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City, with '___'.

They expected that the drug would trigger a state similar to musth; instead, the animal began to have seizures 5 minutes after '___' administration. Beginning twenty minutes after the '___', West and his colleagues decided to administer the antipsychotic promazine hydrochloride and a total of 2800 mg was injected over 11 minutes.

This large promazine dose was not effective and may even have contributed to the animal's death, which occurred an hour and 40 minutes after the '___' was given.

Later, many had theories about why Tusko had died. One prominent theory was that West and his colleagues had made the mistake of scaling up the dose in proportion to the animal's body weight, rather than its brain weight, and without considering other factors, such as its metabolic rate.

Another theory was that while the '___' had caused Tusko distress, it was the drugs administered in an attempt to revive him that actually caused death.

Dr. Jolyon "Jolly" West

posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
More than that, there is the claim that Dr. Jolyon "Jolly" West was medical-oversight chief of the RV project at Ft. Meade.

I'm in the process of documenting those assertions properly and have the sourced material highlighted from various books and FOIA docs, as soon as I transcribe them, I'll share them here or on my next thread. I will go ahead and post a memo written by Dr. Jolly West for what it's worth:

After January 11, 1973, when Governor Reagan announced plans for the Violence Center, West wrote a letter to the then Director of Health for California, J. M. Stubblebine.

"Dear Stub:

"I am in possession of confidential information that the Army is prepared to turn over Nike missile bases to state and local agencies for non-military purposes. They may look with special favor on health-related applications.

"Such a Nike missile base is located in the Santa Monica Mountains, within a half-hour's drive of the Neuropsychiatric Institute. It is accessible, but relatively remote. The site is securely fenced, and includes various buildings and improvements, making it suitable for prompt occupancy.

"If this site were made available to the Neuropsychiatric Institute as a research facility, perhaps initially as an adjunct to the new Center for the Prevention of Violence, we could put it to very good use. Comparative studies could be carried out there, in an isolated but convenient location, of experimental or model programs for the alteration of undesirable behavior.

"Such programs might include control of drug or alcohol abuse, modification of chronic anti-social or impulsive aggressiveness, etc. The site could also accommodate conferences or retreats for instruction of selected groups of mental-health related professionals and of others (e.g., law enforcement personnel, parole officers, special educators) for whom both demonstration and participation would be effective modes of instruction.

"My understanding is that a direct request by the Governor, or other appropriate officers of the State, to the Secretary of Defense (or, of course, the President), could be most likely to produce prompt results."
Some of the planned areas of study for the Center included: 
Studies of violent individuals. 
Experiments on prisoners from Vacaville and Atascadero, and hyperkinetic children. 
Experiments with violence-producing and violent inhibiting drugs. 
    Hormonal aspects of passivity and aggressiveness in boys. 
    Studies to discover and compare norms of violence among various ethnic groups. 
    Studies of pre-delinquent children.
It would also encourage law enforcement to keep computer files on pre-delinquent children, which would make possible the treatment of children before they became delinquents.

A careful reading of that should raise some alarm bells, but, like I said: More on The Jolly Mon later.

posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
My other assertion is that should Dr. Green be able to publish in the public domain of academe, the text-books would have to be rewritten. Make no mistake that this man knows things about the brain that only a handful know or can imagine. We continue with the email:

I DID assess CLAIMED Foreign (Soviet, PRC, and Eastern Bloc) research in "mind control" from about 1970 through 1985 when I left the Agency. I never, ever, found any credible evidence of any work by them either...lots of garbage, lots of claimed results, lots of hokey machines with flashing lights and loud sounds...but never anything I was willing to say I thought was a threat to the National Security of the United States. I even reviewed a Soviet LIDA-4 "Mind Control" machine...and found it to be a total fraud. (It did flash an annoying strobe light and make weird bleeping sounds that certain Russian Scientists thought was controlling the minds of the lab rats on which they were testing it.

That assessment sure hasn't stopped the government for investing huge sums for the last 50 years on related technologies including the effects of electromagnetism/ELF/Microwaves on the brain. Probably one of those areas that are pretty classified I betcha. We'll pause here, also, to highlight Kit Green's assertion that seems to suggest that all non-lethal weaponry is fairly benign:

And, I am totally familiar with the "Non-Lethal"and "Less than Lethal" work by the US Army, too. That work sometimes uses "Flash-Bang" grenades, and Lasers to create pictures to create artificial invisibility...but that is not what I mean by "Mind Control." I do know, however, that White Propaganda as well as Flash Bang scare things do constitute Mind Control in some persons' minds. I was also briefed on the early (before my time) Chemical Warfare research (which ended in 1962) on BZ and other "Mind Altering" riot control agents. But I wasn't"involved" personally in any of this, either.

The above is public...I have told the folks at RU this, and OM, and many others. But folk-lore outlasts truth.

"But folk-lore outlasts truth." How appropriate, imo, when one considers MJ-12 and Serpo.

Yes, yes Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is totally familiar with non-lethal weaponry. He's somewhat of a renaissance man on that subject, too, it seems. We'll recall his involvement, along with Col. John B. Alexander in the Harrington Group as well as the affiliation with Homeland Security:

Homeland Security, Defense and Human Effects Experts Appointed to Harrington Advisory Board

Date : Tuesday, March 22, 2005

SANTA CLARA, CA -- (Market Wire - Mar 22, 2005) -- MDM Group, Inc. (OTC: MDDM) advises that MDM Group subsidiary, Harrington Group Limited (HGR.AX) earlier today advised the Australian Stock Exchange of the appointment of an additional three world-renowned homeland security experts as founding members of the Harrington Group Advisory Board.

Joining Colonel John Alexander, a global authority on non-lethal weapons and defense, will be Dr. Christopher Green, a forensic medicine and electrophysiology specialist…

The combined expertise of the Advisory Board will provide Harrington with outstanding guidance in strategic product development and commercialisation, and grow the Company's profile in the law enforcement, defense and homeland security sectors.

..."Harrington is focused on accelerating its product development, formalising strategic and commercial relationships and securing the expertise of leaders in the field. The formation of a world class Advisory Board is an important step forward in this strategy."

Joining Colonel Alexander are:

Christopher C. Green, MD, PhD, FAAFS

Dr. Green is in the practice of forensic medicine (American Academy of Forensic Sciences) and neuroimaging (Detroit Medical Center/Harper University Hospital/Wayne School of Medicine). His work clinically relates to his expertise as a neurophysiologist with a specialty in electrophysiology. A special research interest involves the way cognition in "making decisions under stress" are modulated by brain systems and neuromuscular control. He is both a faculty member at the Medical School and Fellow in Diagnostic Radiology, and Executive Director for Emergent Technologies.

Dr. Green serves on numerous Department of Defense, Intelligence and National Academy of Sciences Commissions. He Chairs the Science Board for the Undersecretary of the Army for Operations Research and has served as Chair of the Board on Army Science and Technology. He holds the National Intelligence Medal for investigations in forensic intelligence and served as an Officer and continues as a consultant with the Central Intelligence Agency.

posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
Now: Mind-control is a slippery concept. That it belongs--as such an abstract concept--to a wider-range of sub-topics also makes it an easy target for "double-speak."

For example, "Mind-Control" can refer to a few different, but related, modalities.

For instance, when we're talking about ELF and non-lethal weaponry, it can be as simple as bombarding someone with waves that either produce heat and pain or mental states of confusion and/or submissiveness.The "mind-control" tag in those instances referring to a simple sort: Forced Physical Dissuasion.

Then there's the sort that was pursued in the search for the so-called Manchurian Candidate. These modalities look for more intrusive and total-control of the human psyche and include hypnotism, pharmacology, ELF (electromagnetic control of mental and emotional states) and social programming including the blackest of psyops operations. Forced Psychical Persuasion.

Then there's the psychological mind-control manipulation of the psyche through sociological "narrative building" as mentioned starting on Pg. 41 of this thread. Subliminal Persuasion.

"Stories exert a powerful influence on human thoughts and behavior. They consolidate memory, shape emotions, cue heuristics and biases in judgment, influence in-group/out-group distinctions, and may affect the fundamental contents of personal identity.

It comes as no surprise that these influences make stories highly relevant to vexing security challenges such as radicalization, violent social mobilization, insurgency and terrorism, and conflict prevention and resolution. Therefore, understanding the role stories play in a security context is a matter of great import and some urgency," DARPA stated. "Ascertaining exactly what function stories enact, and by what mechanisms they do so, is a necessity if we are to effectively analyze the security phenomena shaped by stories. Doing this in a scientifically respectable manner requires a working theory of narratives, an understanding of what role narratives play in security contexts, and examination of how to best analyze stories-decomposing them and their psychological impact systematically."

According to DARPA, STORyNET has three goals:

1. To survey narrative theories. These empirically informed theories should tell us something about the nature of stories: what is a story? What are its moving parts? Is there a list of necessary and sufficient conditions it takes for a stimulus to be considered a story instead of something else? Does the structure and function of stories vary considerably across cultural contexts or is there a universal theory of story?

2. To better understand the role of narrative in security contexts. What role do stories play in influencing political violence and to what extent? What function do narratives serve in the process of political radicalization and how do they influence a person or group's choice of means (such as violence) to achieve political ends? How do stories influence bystanders' response to conflict? Is it possible to measure how attitudes salient to security issues are shaped by stories?

3. To survey the state of the art in narrative analysis and decomposition tools. How can we take stories and make them quantitatively analyzable in a rigorous, transparent and repeatable fashion? What analytic approaches or tools best establish a framework for the scientific study of the psychological and neurobiological impact of stories on people? Are particular approaches or tools better than others for understanding how stories propagate in a system so as to influence behavior?

Another fact I find interesting Kit's email is his mention of being briefed on "BZ and other "Mind Altering" riot control agents. But we continue with Dr. Green's email response:

And, I was a senior analyst at CIA from 1969 through 1985...and have a dollar-a-year consultant from 1985 to the present, and I have continuously held many, many security clearances. many persons' mind...that does make me evil. And, fair game. And, a probable liar. But, I am not evil or a liar about the above or anything else I have done in Intelligence (less than complete...often...about classified materials...but always and even then...consistent with the truth even if less detailed.

I am, however, fair game. I knew I would be when I took the Oath of Office before a Federal Judge when I entered on duty...and remind myself every year when I go through my security clearance reviews, or when I take a polygraph, and sign my papers re-confirming the verbal oath.

(CONT Next Page...)

edit on 2-10-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

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