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The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

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posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 06:43 PM
This One's For You, X. Mucho Appreciado.

Well the week is too short
But the days is so long
Livin' with SICK PEOPLE
Makes [color=springgreen]He
feel so strong

And as the sun peaks in
On an afternoon drunk
All the [color=springgreen]GREEN GREEN bottles
But it won't last forever

A LIE N Easter Egg

[color=springgreen]Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee ah
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee hey, oh
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee ah
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee hey

Well if the war is over
And the MONSTERS have won
If the war is over
GUT gonna have some fun

And as the sun peaks in
On an afternoon drunk
All the [color=springgreen]GREEN GREEN
But it won't last forever

[color=springgreen]Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee ah
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee he, oh
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee ah
Nim-nee nim-nee nim-nee hey

The All-Seeing Easter Egg

I have been reading Aleister Crowley's magical Journal, magnificently edited by Symonds and Grant. It is filled with remarkable observations, notably this passage dated 1 February 1920, where he comments upon the Society for Psychical Research:

"All their work only proves that there are extra-human forces. We knew about them all along, the universe is full of obscure and subtle manifestations of Energy (...) But what nobody else before me has done is to prove the existence of extra-human Intelligence, and my Magical Record does this. I err in the interpretation, of course (my emphasis --JV) but it is impossible to doubt that there is Somebody there, a Somebody capable of combining events as a Napoléon forms his plans of campaign, and possessed of those powers unthinkably vast, by which to direct the actions of people whom he has chosen to play a part in the execution of his purpose.'

...I don't believe the human race was created by extraterrestrials, as some ufologists claim. There's no indication that Man is an experiment by other beings. But the possibility that primitive man and another form of consciousness were in contact centuries ago must be examined, unlikely as it may be.

…Aimé Michel urges me to drop UFO research as he has done himself, ““having achieved an oeuvre of which we can be justly proud!””

Janine[Vallee's brilliant other-half] believes Messengers represents a chasm between obsolete views of the phenomenon (as the arrival of Aliens) and the ominous possibility of a massive social mutation. No wonder Aimé feels threatened. I do too, but here is California I don't have the luxury of ignoring the weirdness of the world, as he does on his mountain.

Forbidden Science II

edit on 15-9-2012 by The GUT because: Jacques Digs Luna

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 02:39 AM

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green ~ Man In Black(Tinfoil Hat)

Now we return to Dr. Green's very own paraphrenia and his interest in the "suspicious" and concentrated early deaths of a number of parapsychology researchers. While it's always a bit of a trick to discern motives in spooky land, I have to say this is one of the areas that impresses me about Kit.

To be fair, in this instance, his paranoia was probably professionally derived. When we look at the "games" that Dr. Vallee prolifically mentions in regards to the "intelligence guys" he encountered, it becomes pretty apparent that they are always driven by fear. The Cold War was a spooky time in more ways than one.

The CIA had it's own Cheerleader for Fear in James Jesus Angleton, Chief of Counterintelligence. His paranoia was legendary, spread through the ranks, and eventually got him canned:

Some old Cold Warriors recollect Colby's longstanding feud with James Jesus Angleton, the longtime head of the CIA's counterintelligence division. Angleton believed the CIA had been infiltrated by KGB moles; Colby believed Angleton had become symptomatic of Cold War paranoia and forced his ouster in 1974. After his dismissal, a bitter Angleton told associates he believed that Colby had been recruited by the KGB and was a long-term asset of the Soviets.

Alberto Gutierrez writes: "Angleton is credited with coining the term "Wilderness of Mirrors " meaning the confusion of the world of intelligence and espionage. He wrote that the "Wilderness of Mirrors "consists of the myriad stratagems, deceptions and all the other devices of disinformation that the Soviet Union and its coordinated intelligence services used to confuse and split the West, producing an ever-fluid landscape where fact and illusion merge. The term was used by David Martin as the tittle of his book about Angleton, Wilderness of Mirrors.

"Wilderness of Mirrors." We've all become overly-familiar with that in this thread. So, anyway, the red scare was glowing white-hot within the agency. Without that hyper-contagious tinfoiltania running rampant in the ranks, the Psi work at SRI and the Remote Viewing projects might never have been funded.

For some time, the CIA had been concerned at reports that the Soviets were funding psychic projects. Expertise in telepathy was being claimed. The Soviets were even allegedly employing psychics to hex opponents by telepathy, even to the point of killing their targets.

Puthoff was approached soon after his material was circulated. The intelligence community paid $50,000 for a year long project into psychic phenomena. Puthoff chose to use the money to continue his research into remote viewing.

Some researchers have suggested that the U.S. parapsychology programs--and maybe the U.S.S.R's as well--might have been nothing more than a psy-ops operation to convince the other team that they had such ability.

Whether it was a ruse or not, the fear wasn't. We'll remember Kit's conversation with Jacques about this very subject:

We began our first really serious analysis of Soviet para- psychology work about 1970,”” he said. ““Other agencies thought we were crazy, but they've now changed their tune. They even went beyond what we did. There've been four independent analyses, all classified… We found a dozen centers for psychotronic research in the Soviet Union.””

““What do they do?””
“Their work focuses on gifted subjects. They look for them in systematic fashion, throughout their population...

...DIA and others went farther than we did. I can't tell you more, but they speculated that the Russians had offensive labs where they were trying to blow up people's heads at a distance and break their spinal columns by PK.””

Keep in mind exploding heads and PK spine-crackers as we move along.

When I saw him in El Paso Kit was bothered by John Wilhelm, the Time Magazine journalist who wrote Search for Superman and is now hot on his trail. Kit has started to study cases of unexplained deaths and comas that have struck parapsychology researchers. Over dinner in Juarez he told me that the SRI work, which he follows on behalf of the CIA, was at a critical point again.

Wilbur Franklin

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 02:39 AM

“What do you know about Wilbur Franklin?”” Kit asked. The name was familiar. ““He's a physicist, I saw him once at SRI. He looked a bit wrinkled and sad, like someone who had been kept in somebody's cellar for a long time...”” Kit was not amused. ““The poor guy died last week, in rather strange circumstances,”” he told me, wiping the smile from my face. ““It's the fifth or sixth death of a parapsychologist in 18 months.””
“What happened?”” I asked in astonishment.
“Several people saw him very healthy two weeks ago. He went home for the weekend. He was in his forties, mind you, not an old man. On Monday he didn't show up at Kent State, where he chaired the Physics Department. His colleagues alerted the police. They found him at home in a coma, took him to the hospital. Attending physicians found nothing abnormal in the tests: X-rays of his brain, other tests, all normal. On Wednesday his brain waves go flat. On Thursday he is dead.”” (31)
“I suppose there was an autopsy?' I asked.
“That's were it get weirder. They found something but the coroner in Cayoga County won't say what it is, except that his conclusions contradict those of the attending physician. Apparently the body had burn marks.””

““What was Franklin working on?””

““Nothing big, apparently. He wasn't briefed on classified psi research. He was doing work on the physical characteristics of some spoons Uri Geller had bent, harmless stuff. He was also working on a book attempting to gather in one place everything that's known in parapsychology.”

All-Seeing Ur-Eye Geller

We went on to discuss the recent deaths, a suspicious concentration. All subjects were studying parapsychology on a private basis, part-time, with their own funds, in the same way I'm working on UFOs. All were regarded as serious people, but they were outside the circle of government funded research. One of them was Ron Hubbard's own son.

Quentin Hubbard Smiles for the Camera

Excerpted - Dr. Christopher Green's second-opinion on the death of Quentin Hubbard:

The reports I read, hospital charts, and other data (including what is attached) were inconsistent with Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Toxicology was inconsistent with CO poisoning, or other drugs of abuse. He was suffering from a form of toxicosis at the time of his death, and it may have been an infection. The report indicated that the car was out of gas, and there was a hose running from the tailpipe through an almost closed front window. I found the sunset road site to be isolated, although it was indeed adjacent to McCarron Airport. There were a number of odd circumstances about the death scene...

…In my investigation, and review of the detailed autopsy, there was no mention of sperm in the anal canal which appeared in some of the first documents taken to Mr. Ron Hubbard, Quentin's mother, and the GO and then were never seen again in any paperwork. The family appeared to initially believe in the suicide theory, because he had been admittedly homosexual, according to some affidavits I have seen...which I know little about in terms of provenance...I have strong opinions about the care he received and the angiography results that indicated a possible cerebral abscess. I have not (yet) seen the CAT scans or any other X/Rays.


Hubbard Children - Clockwise from the top: Arthur, Quentin, Diana, Suzette.

Now back to Physicist & Parapsychologist Wilbur Franklin. First some Bio:

Dr. Franklin's field of specialization was psychokinesis or the interaction of mind with matter. He was one of the first scientists in the United States to meet with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the former astronaut, and to work with Uri Geller in 1972. From that time on, he was one of the chief instigators of psychic research in the United States.

We return to Drs Green & Vallee:

Wilbur Franklin is death number five. In the case of Price, too, the circumstances are suspicious. Both Hal and Price’’s wife saw the body, so there is no question about its identity, but an unidentified ambulance driver had taken the corpse away and it disappeared for 24 hours before reappearing at a local hospital, equally mysteriously.

An ailing heart was blamed for Price’’s death, but he had told his daughter some time before that he thought the KGB might try to kill him.

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green, Pat Price, and Hal Puthoff

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 02:39 AM
As there was some suspicion of KGB involvement in Pat Price's death and, as we'll see, a minor connection to the U.S.S.R in Wilbur Franklin's case, it appears that Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green--and probably his superiors--had a fear that the Russians were trying to deal a death-blow to our parapsychology research and capabilities.

It also occurs to me that the thinking probably went that if an autopsy DID show a death by suspicious or remote means, we'd also have a good gauge on how far along the Russian psychics were as well. CSI-PSI.

By then, the DIA were discussing Soviet psychokinesis at length:

All the Soviet and Czech research on PK is significant, especially that associated with the spectacular Soviet psychics Kulagina, Vinogradova and Ermolayev.

Kulagina’s highly publicized ability to affect living tissues might be applied against human targets

In like manner, Vinogradova’s power to move objects

Ermolayev’s levitational ability could possibly be used to activate or deactivate power supplies or to steal military documents or hardware

Price offered to remotely view the Russian counterpart to the NSA base, to soothe the CIA’s discomfiture. He pinpointed the Russian base at Mount Narodnyna in a remote part of the northern Ural Mountains. He described the underground base, its high proportion of female personnel, radar dishes... The CIA were delighted.

Pat Price’s death in 1975 under mysterious circumstances was highly controversial. It was alleged at the time that the Soviets poisoned Price, most likely with a mycotoxin. It would have been a top priority for the KGB to eliminate Price as his phenomenal remote-viewing abilities would have posed a significant danger to the USSR’s paranormal-warfare build-up.

He may also have been the victim of an elite group of Russian psi-agents trained to remotely kill enemies of the Soviet Union. Whatever the true reason, Price, the leading US psi-spy, was probably the first casualty of the inner-space arms race.

The Spooks were Spooked and seeing Red all over it seems:

…During my lengthy discussion with Kit I asked him where the investigation of Wilbur Franklin's death had led him. ““It's over,”” he told me. ““The physicians said he'd suffered an unexplained break of his spinal column. The technical term is 'clinical brain stem infraction,' but the official diagnosis is listed as pneumonia. I don't know why they didn't see the pneumonia on the X-rays; it was only discovered at the autopsy.””
“What was going on in his life?”” I asked, too fascinated by the subject to drop it.
“He was at a critical time in his career,”” Kit said. ““He'd decided to start conducting his research openly. He was working on a new book. He was about to go to the USSR to discuss parapsychology with people there. He felt he was under the control of an unspecified force.””

There you have it, the Fear: Soviet Remote Spine-Crackers! Would you like some tinfoil with your paraphrenia, Doc?

Jus' goofin'...I would've wondered, too. Or not.

Nina Kulagina ~ USSR "I'll Bend Your Spine Like This Skeleton Key!"

One more autopsy that Doc Green was involved in came much later and doesn't seem to fall in the PSI category--though it's smack-dab in the middle of conspiracy theory--was the suspicious death of Danny Casolaro:

Danny Casolaro, an aspiring novelist, freelance writer and investigative reporter looking into the theft of Project PROMIS software, a program capable of tracking down anyone anywhere in the world, died in August 1991, a reported suicide.

Casolaro was also investigating Pine Gap, Area 51 and governmental bioengineering. His manuscript – tentatively entitled The Octopus and which would reveal a web of conspiracy involving everything from PROMIS to BCCI to Iran-Contra to the JFK assassination to the October Surprise – was missing from his room and has never been found.

Danny Casolaro

For Casolaro, the Octopus presented a complex web of intrigue involving PROMIS; the inter-connection of various police services, intelligence agencies and organised criminal groups; and a large number of parapolitical operators, weapons brokers and deal-makers. All of this continues to have an impact on the post-9/11 world, with PROMIS figuring in many contemporary stories.

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 02:39 AM
I don't know much about Casolaro's The Octopus/PROMIS scandal, and I don't want to. But I do find it impressive that Kit Green has seemingly established the death to be homicide rather than suicide, and as such, firmly in the realm of conspiracy fact.

There have been a number of "assisted suicides" in which the wrists were slashed, but with little blood in evidence. Which means the heart was no longer beating when the wrists were slashed.

Aside from Dr. David Kelly, one of the most famous cases (in America) was the death of investigative reporter Danny Casolaro, who was investigating the "Octopus" or "The Enterprise" -- the privatized CIA that consists of "rogue elements", CIA agents who have lost their jobs for various reasons, former Special Forces or SEALs, and a variety of private mercenary organizations including one belonging to Halliburton.

Danny Casolaro drove from Washington, DC, to West Virginia to meet members of "The Enterprise", checked into a hotel room, and was later found dead in the bath tub, wrists slashed.

Enter the Spy Doc: Christopher Canfield Green:

I've discussed his death and autopsy with Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green, who at the time was the chief forensic pathologist at the CIA. Green participated in the Casolaro autopsy, and closely examined his hotel room. Green told me that the room showed obvious signs of a violent struggle, and that there was negligible blood in the bath tub or around the tub. Therefore, Casolaro was already dead when he was placed naked in the tub and his wrists slashed.

This Green told me was precisely the case with Dr. Kelly. So, in both instances, they were clearly murdered. As to who did it, there are so many possibilities that it could be more sensible to ask who ordered it. As Kelly was a particular irritant and embarrassment to Downing Street, and to the Defense Ministry, it seems likely that his murder was not carried out by some "rogue element" but was sanctioned explicitly or implicitly at the highest level.

Why his murder was deemed necessary when Dr. Kelly had already had his career and reputation destroyed, and had been subjected to extreme public humiliation, suggests that the decision to kill him was pathological. Given the behavior of Bush and of Blair the last several years, one cannot entirely rule out insanity.

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 01:50 PM
If Pat Price had been a nonwestern yogi energy master he could easily reverse the damage of a mycotoxin.

The qigong master training requires taking deadly poisons and having deadly amounts of electricity put through the body and also requires predicting the weather in detail 10 days in advance.

As for Kit Green doing all these investigations of alleged suicides and then ruling them murders -- hell he's CIA maybe he did the murders! The CIA is an institution of genocide -- training torturers and death squads and funding genocide all over the world - assassinating presidents and other political leaders, etc.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 02:24 PM

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
The qigong master training requires taking deadly poisons and having deadly amounts of electricity put through the body and also requires predicting the weather in detail 10 days in advance.

Heck, I'd like to see that! In the newsroom we called the meteorologists, "guesserologists."

You up for a demonstration? The weather part, not the poison.

As for Kit Green doing all these investigations of alleged suicides and then ruling them murders -- hell he's CIA maybe he did the murders! The CIA is an institution of genocide -- training torturers and death squads and funding genocide all over the world - assassinating presidents and other political leaders, etc.

Like I said; Always hard to tell motives with these guys. I doubt Kit whacked those guys, but the thought did cross my mind that it could be disinfo, although I was only left with one, mebbe two, motive(s) that I could divine in those last two cases. Doesn't mean there couldn't be more reasons to muddy the waters. I like to think it was straight up information...easier on the thinkin' apparatus!

So...sunny? Partly cloudy with a slight chance? Thunder storms?

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 04:44 PM
Powerful parapsychologist aren't allowed to exist. If you can bend spoons or do some remote viewing that's okay. Anything higher then that and you meet an unfortunate end. If you don believe me then believe those meddlesome psi-ops from the USA and the USSR in the late 60's and 70's. My hitch-hiker won allow it, never did and never will. Recently a few got to powerful, they paid the ultimate price. stay off his back.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:33 PM

Originally posted by AncientShade
...If you don believe me then believe those meddlesome psi-ops from the USA and the USSR in the late 60's and 70's. My hitch-hiker won allow it, never did and never will. Recently a few got to powerful, they paid the ultimate price. stay off his back.

"Psi-ops." How cool.

What "few" powerful adepts do you believe were recently offed? Who do you believe your hitchhiker to be, btw, and stay off whose back?

Brings to mind James Jesus Angleton's, and our, "Wilderness of Mirrors." Bruce Lee found a great solution:

Go all
on some narrative myth mirrors. Thas' what I'm tawkin' 'bout---Yeah:

"Remember, the enemy has only images and illusions, behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image and you will break the enemy."

edit on 16-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 06:15 PM
reply to post by The GUT

The Western skeptics always want a "free" demonstration without realizing that they are already a part of the experiment.

For example -- Chunyi Lin did a double blind healing study at the University of Minnesota but he was asked to pretend to heal people but not really heal them as a control. Now for Western science that might work but when a qigong master reads the energy of someone then they can feel their pain and so want to heal them in order to relieve their own pain.

See the difference? So immediately you are part of the experiment whether -- or should I saw weather -- you want to or not.

So Western scientists might want to test qigong masters on the weather but meanwhile the global weather is catastrophic climate destablization due to Western science itself!!!!

Ah the irony of it -- can you predict the weather that we have already messed up so bad it's causing severe extreme drought and storms, etc. The Reinsurance companies can already predict the damages. haha.

So if you want a qigong master to predict the weather then you have to pay a lot of money to get it done -- otherwise a qigong master is just going to have all of his energy sucked up for free by evil parasites just selfishly wanting proof for their own evil intentions.

So Chunyi Lin already did a "randomized controlled" study that proves external energy transmission is real -- this was done by the Mayo Clinic and the University of Minnesota researchers -- now you might say -- ah but that is not predicting the weather! Yes but it already demonstrates the principles of external energy transmission are real and effective and so the principles are the same in qigong -- only the application is different.

BTW -- this study completely underminds the foundation of science -- because if qigong external energy is real then there's a lot of things that need to be questioned in materialistic science. I've already mentioned that quantum biology does give materialistic answers for qigong and paranormal energy -- but they can't be reproduced in a lab by technology. The abilities are innate to people and only need the training.

So in the West to do the training you need to sit in full lotus yoga position for a month of nonstop meditation but try doing that in the WEst and you're going to get arrested or sent to a doctor for being suicidal etc. because the materialists simply will not accept the possbility of this being real.

I went 8 days on half a glass of water in 2000 doing intensive qigong training the whole time and the electromagnetic fields got stronger and stronger. The only way I could do this was to finish my graduate degree -- so I did it as self-directed research for my final credits -- so I did about six months of intensive meditation. No internet forums -- no television -- just reading meditation books the whole time and meditating about six hours a day.

So then my energy was so strong I accidentally pulled this old lady's spirit right out of the top of her head -- and she couldn't see what I was doing but she immediately bawled nonstop for at least 15 minutes. She started bawling right when I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob get pulled out of the top of her skull. I had forgotten not to pull energy blockages out of the top center of the skull -- this was with no touching but again I felt a heavy electromagnetic blob get pulled out and she immediately was bawling.

I did some other healing - that wasn't quite so traumatic but nevertheless effective and I also had precognition and telepathy -- whether you call pulling someone's spirit out of their body to be telekinesis or not -- I also was moving these quarters from a distance after I magnetized this metal box and the quarters were sticking to the side and rolling up and down the box. I didn't realize -- I mean then I checked my hands making a "qi ball" and sure enough I had very strong energy pushing the hands apart -- electromagnetic energy. But that is only because I was working at nights and so was able to store up the energy.

Essentially as soon as the strong electromagnetic fields develop then people suck up the energy because it's based on store up and transformed life force reproductive energy -- so it creates strong desire in other people as the electromagnetic energy activates their vagus nerve for internal bliss.

You can see the Mayo Clinic "randomized controlled" aka gold standard study proving external qi energy transmissions are real here So Chunyi Lin to be certified as an international qigong master had to predict the weather for 10 days in advance in detail -- several times. He trained through

You've seen the john chang vid right?

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 10:59 PM
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

It doesn't sound like a proper double blind experiment with controls.

Ideally you'd want him doing a healing while several others served as controls, say him and 6 others (controls, with no healing ability) doing healing on 7 people double blind. Then repeat several times with 7 other patients, reshuffling the cards. Repeat several times. The more reshufflings, the more significant the statistic become. Preferably remove the human element altogether from the shuffling process and let a computer do the DB selections. Even better, do the healing experiments and THEN have the computer select the patients after the fact. Then perform the statistical analysis of the data.

But the actual healer should never be asked to not try to heal the person.

Most important is that the people being healed must not have any inkling whatsoever of the purpose of the experiment lest the placebo effect skews the data.

Try that and report back to us.
edit on 16-9-2012 by gguyx because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:21 PM
reply to post by gguyx

Are you referring to when Chunyi Lin was supposed to pretend to heal people and then not really heal people?

Yeah actually it's not considered possible to have a "double blind" experiment using qigong because the principle of qigong is a universal energy from nonlocal consciousness -- like quantum entanglement - and so similarly to parapsychology it's difficult to rule out where exactly the consciousness comes from since it's beyond just a dualistic subject-object dynamic. Western science is based on mathematics that are inherently materialistic due to the use of the irrational number continuum -- as math professor Luigi Borzacchini states -- Western science is based on a "pre-established disharmony." Quite literally as Borzacchini proves that the real number concept originates from music logistic ratios from Archytas.

O.K. so the experiment you give is definitely great but the thing is this energy is not objective -- it is from love energy and so Chunyi Lin's focus is on healing as many people as possible. Qigong master Effie P. Chow also does healing as her energy practice even though when she did a qigong demonstration for us in Minneapolis in 1995 at a University -- at the end when everyone was leaving, the security guard wandered in wondering what was going on. The security guard said she was wondering what was going on since the fuse in the room behind Effie P. Chow got blown. haha. That was the first time I felt a strong electromagnetic energy ball between my hands and so then in 1996 I went to San Francisco to see about finding out more about Effie P. Chow. I didn't have the money for any real sessions so I just ended up going to the new library to see if they had books I didn't know about -- but then my friend who hosted me - he took me to a local UFO conference.

Anyway so the "randomized controlled" study is considered a "gold standard" study -- and if you read the abstract -- the lead scientist says the results are "very impressive" because the people had chronic pain for over five years not treatable by western medicine. So no matter if it was a double blind or placebo or whatever terms people want to use -- the fact is that the treatments got effective results while Western medicine did not.

Oh and also your comment:

"try that and report back to us" is again this passive Western attitude like you're a consumer that needs to have your personal special needs satisified and you don't want to know about anything else.

That's not science -- if you really wanted to find out if qigong was real you wouldn't practice willful ignorance -- instead you would just google for information instead of making some snide comment.

So obviously why would I provide information to you if you're not even interested! It amazes me that people think they can objectively dismiss a subject before or without thinking they need to actually investigate the topic.

People make accusations before doing any investigation or enquiry.

Why not ask me questions about my experiences or what not? haha. I'm just giving an example. Harvard medical doctor David Eisenberg went to China and he observed telekinesis by qigong masters and he had a book published on it - Qi Encounters -- and there is a whole database of science studies on qigong -- here

Now you can say -- well they're not real science -- or they're biased etc. All I can say is then seek out a real energy master and try it out. Now finding a real energy master is rare and this is part of the problem but as I explained this energy gets sucked off by people so energy masters charge a lot of money so that only people really sincere about learning will then use up their energy. Even then the energy masters are sitting in full lotus yoga non-stop meditation position for four to five hours a night -- and then only sleeping four hours a night. So it takes a deep level of meditation to be able to replace sleep with it but when Chunyi Lin did his training he went a month without sleep while in full lotus yoga position.

O.K. so lets say these qigong studies are biased and qigong is fake as the skeptics claim - because hey they even went to China to debunk qigong! haha. I then recommend reading Professor David Palmer's book Qigong Fever - he goes way into depth about the various qigong masters in China -- who is fake, who is real, and why, and what the skeptics tried to do and what the scientists tried to do and most importantly the politic reactions of the Chinese military regime. We have to realize that qigong has a several thousand year history in China and that the politics of China have relied on qigong secret societies that did inspire revolutions. So also the horrific torture of Falun Gong is also covered in David Palmer's book. He was nice enough to mail me one of his articles that I couldn't find in the libaries in the Twin Cities -- he's know a professor in Hong Kong.

Now you could say that people really into qigong are actually crazy and in this case you'd want to read anthropology professor Nancy Chen's book Breathing Spaces -- about how people in China who claim that can receive transmissions from their energy masters - in distance in secret -- they get put into asylums as having "qigong deviance." This obviously is tied into the larger political dynamics of China's modernization and materialism but suffice it to say there are "official" qigong schools in China and an official certification process of qigong masters. Chunyi Lin trained with a Shaolin Master who can see inside peoples' bodies just as Chunyi Lin can now do -- seeing energy blockages. Even Barry Taff the parapsychology says he can do this as a "rainbow x-ray" being a "medical intuitive." But as a Westerner he hasn't done the yoga training to transmit the healing energy.
edit on 16-9-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:39 AM
reply to post by fulllotusqigong


Just making a suggestion; no need to get all huffy about it.

I don't need to 'believe' in phenomena. My method is very simple. I have working hypotheses. If a new fact comes along which negates a hypothesis, then I throw it out, work up a new one which includes the new fact and get on with it. One of my postulates is that beliefs get in the way of learning. I use deductive as well as inductive reasoning.

I have experience with a healer. He's about a thousand miles away. We have never met. I asked him by email to help a certain situation. I offered to give him place and name of the person involved. He declined. He said he would simply follow my 'signature' to the person in question.

Within a few minutes it was done with no recurrence of the condition since.

He never talked about psychic stuff or chi or prayer or any of that new-age stuff, in fact, he runs the other way. He seems to have dropped off the net. I guess his family, work and many projects keep him pretty busy.

The Chinese people I know no longer see ancient practitioners; they go to hospitals when they get sick. They shrug and say only westerners still use the old ways. Maybe your experience is different.

edit on 17-9-2012 by gguyx because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2012 by gguyx because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:03 AM
reply to post by The GUT

I will give you this really know how to throw out quite a bit of information! LOL! I believe you know where I stand and that is that I KNOW...not think or guess or hope...but 100% KNOW that E.T. is a REALITY.

I wish I did not know...but I do...and I have to deal with it. This issue is so complex and it's Reality has been used for so many purposes...such as Disinformation to hide U.S. Secret well as it has been allowed to be cultivated...which I find FUNNY as a FACT is being used to generate doubt.

The reality is that the "AGENCY" that deals with everything that is E.T....does not even have to work hard to try to hide something of such Importance because some people in need of attention have done their work for them.

There is one underlying fact of logic that can direct a person to determine what is real and what is not. If something were not real...and the Military was using E.T. lore to hide Secret Programs...they would not have to go to the trouble of denying Presidential Inquiries into the issue.

There are several levels of Clearance that are above President of the United States. This was created by IKE who had the foresight to understand that Politicians could NOT BE TRUSTED to keep matters of such importance secret if they needed a Boost to win an election. what the "AGENCY" is all about. Protecting the People from their own Government.

I know just a SLIVER of information as far as E.T. is concerned and Sliver is the right word as once you become is like a Sliver inside your Brain. It cannot be removed and it is always there. And no matter how one tries to think about something is always cutting it's way deeper into your thoughts. Split Infinity

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 02:56 AM
reply to post by The GUT

The psi-ops was basically the experimentations of the USA and USSR into remote viewing. It was just after the initial rebuild from the 2nd world war and based upon experiments from the Thule society captured in the aftermath of that war. The experiment was stopped on both sides due to a high level of mortal casualties among the psychics involved. At that time it was believed to be a result of high strain upon the mind causing hemorrhage and internal bleeding in the region of the frontal lobe. It was not.

My hitch-hiker is a banished individual. Bear in mind that I am going to tell you about ancient history, long before humanity existed. I can really tie dates on it since earths time doesn't work in the universe but I do happen to know it was before we had a civilization and before Atlantis.

My hitch-hiker was the leader of a third level race that succeeded in a Lucifer experiment. I am going extremely short here but they had a problem. While being extremely powerful their number were finite. Part of their Lucifer experiments process made them sterile and sexless. You might remember sex being a great part of non-Lucifer beings. Well, these guys had found out why the other Lucifer had gone wrong and corrected the mistake. But their numbers were stabilize, unchanging and not multiplying.To correct this mistake they took 4 level 2 Lucifer races amongst them and used themselves as a stabilizing force based upon a grid with nodes of three.

Being rather the logic minded being they then spread out on conquest and eventually succeeded in conquering a mayor part of this universe. Initially the non-Lucifer inhabitants resisted. But due to the different nature of the level three succeeded Lucifer race a balance was found. That is..until my hitch-hiker got into problems. Even I don know why but my hitch-hiker (the then time ruler) got overwhelmed by insanity. Being the strongest node in the network it spread out over the five Lucifer races and drove them all insane. Since these guys control every part of the military and police force the events were...rather bloody. Most of the races in the universe got wiped out in a bloodbath (that is why there are so few at the moment). Fearful, the remainder of non-Lucifer races asked fourth and fifth dimensional beings for help. They descended in those Lucifer beings in the network that were more resistant to the insanity and ended the insanity by banishing the remaining to lower levels.
That left just the leader, they could defeat him for real so they took his body and disconnected his consciousness. Enter Earth some 15.000 years ago.They reattached his consciousness to a human since they were compatible and an artificial cycle of death and rebirth was in place. It was, by the way, not entirely coincidence that humans were compatible but thats a story for a different time.
edit on 17-9-2012 by AncientShade because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:19 AM
reply to post by SplitInfinity

Well, Split, resistance is legion & information is controlled and tightropes must be walked. The audience screams for blood and the show clowns are hostile.

Still and all, sometimes the fat lady sings at the circus.

Figured out how to work the denouement into my next thread. I won't make the same mistakes I made here. Word to your bird. See y'all there.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:38 AM

Originally posted by AncientShade
Powerful parapsychologist aren't allowed to exist. If you can bend spoons or do some remote viewing that's okay. Anything higher then that and you meet an unfortunate end. If you don believe me then believe those meddlesome psi-ops from the USA and the USSR in the late 60's and 70's. My hitch-hiker won allow it, never did and never will. Recently a few got to powerful, they paid the ultimate price. stay off his back.

That strategy probably has limits that are quickly realized I'd imagine.

Take a page from the Budhists. Its easier to keep track of the one you know where they are, than have to go find them after they come back around. Maybe ETs are sneaky that way.

edit on 2012/9/17 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:09 AM
reply to post by gguyx

To state qigong is now some trendy Western thing is again not fair to the phenomenon as an objective reality -- it's a personal decision whether someone wants to practice it or not but Westernization of the world has driven out shamanism in all its forms.

So as Dr. David Palmer points out in his book Qigong Fever -- the craze of the 1980s when some 300 million people in China were practicing qigong regularly -- actually worked as a Zizekian "vanishing mediator" to help China Westernize. China needed a catalyst to enable new energy and new forms of thinking and once qigong had served that ironic purpose then the military regime quickly repressed the mass qigong movement in order to leverage its energy for Westernization. So the only remaining qigong institutions were controlled by making them economically inaccessible for the masses. Qigong master Yan Xin is the most scientifically tested qigong master in the world and he is now a "national treasure" of China which means the government controls his healings -- he is no longer able to do mass healings but in the 1980s he was healing thousands of people at a time during 7 hour nonstop qigong meditation sessions. When Yan Xin came to the U.S. George Bush Sr. had Yan Xin go to the White House eight times to heal George Bush Sr.

So don't be fooled by the Westernization of China because Western technology is based on and driven by logarithmic math-based technology which is destroying ecology and shamanism based on sustainable cultures. China relied on humanure composting for thousands of years and yet I doubt any of your Chinese friends practice humanure composting. So you probably never even think about humanure composting but essentially it is the same secret as qigong only applied to the environment. People's emotional energy need to be composted by being stored up and then sanitized and transformed into nutrition for our brains and hearts -- this is how qigong works and it's also how humanure composting works to grow food.

O.K. so you want to set up your own pet science projects to objectively prove something that has been practiced successfully for twice as long as Western civilization has existed. Yet the mathematics and science of Western civilization are inherently destroying ecology as this lecture proves:

If you want to see if someone is a real qigong master just see how long they can sit in full lotus position in ease with no movement. For example in Wang Liping's biography -- Opening the Dragon Gate -- he had to sit for four hours nonstop with no movement just to start out. As I said Chunyi Lin did a month nonstop with no sleep and now both Wang Liping and Chunyi Lin do five hour nonstop full lotus sessions every night.

The one finger handstand master of Shaolin meditated all night in full lotus also.

There is a definite training method to create paranormal energy and it is transcultural but it started with the Bushmen culture which is 90% of human history from 100,000 BCE. The San Bushmen now have been destroyed as a culture but still have a few real energy masters left. I posted about them above -- but they do sometimes pretend to practice their old culture for Western tourism and then this gets criticized as not letting the San Bushmen properly modernized or Westernize. Actually that is in South Africa - and the San Bushmen do want their land back to go back to traditional ways. In Namibia the San Bushmen -- and Botswana - they still retain more of a traditional healing culture. But for 90% of human history 90% of the males trained to be energy healing masters and this requires a month of fasting and trance dancing in isolation from the females when the males are in puberty so that their life force energy is the strongest at that age. So then that opens up the pineal gland to transmit the holographic spirit energy. This training was then spread around the world as the nonwestern shamanic training so for example the Objibwe Anishinabe in the Great Lakes Region also traditionally had the males do a fasting in isolation - a 10 day fast with just a small amount of water on the fifth day brought to them. So Westerners thinking fasting just causes hallucinations but actually it's not just fasting but goes with meditation as a "sonoluminescence" process -- creating ultrasound that ionizes the electrochemical emotional energy of the body into electromagnetic energy via the vagus nerve internal bliss.
edit on 17-9-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:49 PM

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So if you want a qigong master to predict the weather then you have to pay a lot of money to get it done -- otherwise a qigong master is just going to have all of his energy sucked up for free by evil parasites just selfishly wanting proof for their own evil intentions.

No one saw that coming. Ahem.

In speaking with a member here whom I highly respect and who practices qigong, along with a variety of martial arts, it became apparent that you, fullotusqigong, don't know diddly about that which you speak.

Sure qigong has some of the same health benefits that are found in, say, yoga, or Tai Chi, but to tout it's "paranormal" abilities is to give yourself away as either a quack or a sucker.

Even the Qigong Institute warns us about folk like you:

Unfortunately it is a cruel fact that there are more unqualified, self-styled Qigong "masters" than true Qigong healers.These "fake" masters often tend to be self-deluded individuals who can potentially cause harm to the people that they teach.

In this regard, Lin's book can help readers discern unqualified Qigong "masters" and also awaken people to some of the weaknesses of practice without the guidance of a qualified Qigong instructor.

The Qigong Institute even gives a diagnosis for people who make wild claims, such as yourself copying and pasting your same stories over & over across the net in regards your fantasy of having pulled an electromagnetic blob out of a woman's head:

Hallucination and Qigong psychosis. It is quite common for the advanced Qigong practitioner to experience some hallucination or illusion during Qigong practice, such as photism or phonism. ..

...As long as the practitioners do not believe what they see or hear, or sustain these hallucinations, and continue their practice, these hallucinations will eventually go away.

There is no danger to become disoriented as long as you know this will happen. It is normal from the perspective of Qigong practice, but will definitely be considered a mental disorder by those who lack knowledge of Qigong.

It is true that incorrect practice with misunderstanding of Qigong hallucination, or practice with strong intention or inappropriate purposes (such as intention to communicate with higher being, develop supernatural ability, or reach self-completion as some sham Qigong claimed), may lead to various forms of psychosis, or even abnormal behaviors.

"Various forms of psychosis" and "abnormal behaviors" sounds germane to your rhetoric. The qigong writer goes on to state that:

Itinerant Quackery, completely denied the possibility that Qigong may be used to diagnose diseases, and revealed how some street quackery used the name of "Qigong super abilities" to cheat patients.

Not only can you NOT predict the weather 10 days in advance, Drew, let alone ingest poison and remain unharmed, but by looking at your complete misrepresentation of Qigong, you very clearly fall into the following category at the very least:

Unfortunately it is a cruel fact that there are more unqualified, self-styled Qigong "masters" than true Qigong healers.

These "fake" masters often tend to be self-deluded individuals who can potentially cause harm to the people that they teach...where practitioners believe they have skills that are actually beyond their own abilities or mistake the profundity of the tools that they use.

All the above was from the Qigong Institute. The following is from another source:

However, scientific investigators of Qigong masters in China have found no evidence of paranormal powers and some evidence of deception.

They found, for example, that a patient lying on a table about eight feet from a Qigong master moved rhythmically or thrashed about as the master moved his hands.

But when she was placed so that she could no longer see him, her movements were unrelated to his.

You are not only anathema to true practitioners of Qigong, but infamous across the internet for your shenanigans. I seriously doubt you can even get in a full lotus.

I'm in the process of making a compendium of your greatest "hits" from various and multitudinous boards. They are quite revealing.

So folk will have an idea of what they are dealing with, I plan to tack them onto all your threads past and future.

Your schnitzelphrenia of copying and pasting long passages onto various websites will come home to roost. I fully expect others will adopt & post and/or link them when you spam their boards.

For further self-enlightenment please see:

The Illustrated Field Guide to Internet Kooks

edit on 17-9-2012 by The GUT because: Jacques Dislikes Qigong Fakirs

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:20 PM
reply to post by The GUT

Have you read Nancy Chen's book? - she is a Ph.D. medical anthropology professor and she did her research in China. If you want to label someone with qigong psychosis then I recommend you read that book first. Here's the Amazon link for it.

Nice. So what do you think of the John Chang video? You think it is fake? Do you realize how many people practice qigong without ever actually getting an energy transmission from a real qigong master?

See there is the "shen" transmission which is the equivalent of the "shakti" transmission in Indian yoga -- it's also called the !Xia transmission in the Bushmen healing. The "shen" transmission is a laser holographic spirit energy transmission. It is very very rare to find someone who can do the "shen" transmission by a qigong master.

To practice qigong for health is great -- again I say just sit in full lotus as this is the advanced technique and it's the most direct - called "raja yoga" or royal yoga in India. So do you think sitting in full lotus is a delusion? haha.

A lot of people from the martial arts tradition think qigong paranormal powers are fake because the Western martial arts tradition is based on a materialist philosophy and does not encounter real qigong masters. Again Chunyi Lin trained at Shaolin for 3 months - he did the standing horse stance seen in Jackie Chan movies a lot -- with the thighs flat -- arms outstretched -- 2 hours nonstop with no moving -- every day for three months.

After that training under Master Yau -- then Chunyi Lin said his third eye was fully open so he was able to do long distance healing and he healed his uncle of a stomach disease. As I mentioned Master Yau can see inside
people's bodies -- and Master Yau then correctly diagnosed Chunyi Lin's wife of her breast cancer tumors, including tumors that the Western doctors had not found yet. Then Master Yau healed Chunyi Lin's wife of breast cancer. Now Master Yau also can light things of fire at a distance using his eyes. Chunyi Lin thought maybe this was fake at first so he had Master Yau test it on him and it created a laser burn on his skin. When Master Yau was once demonstrating this lighting on fire ability he did it too much and when he went back to his monastery room he was spitting up blood.

So I have exchange communications with students of John Chang who also lights things on fire with his energy - and they all confirm that it is real. So consider the amazing miracle paranormal healings done by the Spring Forest Qigong energy masters -- the first report is by a local news channel:

So you say healing from qigong is real -- but isn't some healing miraculous and therefore paranormal? I agree that healing and even paranormal energy can be explained in terms of Western science but since Western science is limited due to the quantum time-frequency uncertainty principle then there is not a "unified field theory" to explain paranormal energy. The problem with Western science is it's not based on logical inference as consciousness - the mathematics of Western science is inherently materialistic and so the scientific investigation is inherently limited. This is why quantum physics relies on Poisson Bracket to convert the quantum infinite potential back into symmetric mathematics.

Effie P. Chow qigong grandmaster has a book called Miracle Healing from China -- scribd here So are you saying that Effie P. Chow really didn't blow out the fuse in the room behind her when she gave a presentation that I attended in 1995?

Here Dr. Effie P. Chow describes healing brain cancer tumor long distance and someone else was healed of brain cancer tumor by Effie Chow -- someone who is right there on the show.

It is a magical thing. But it is real. Dr. Effie P. Chow, Qigong Grandmaster

so, i started moving his hand over my foot. it felt like very powerful magnets each time the hand passed over. immediately, the pain reduced by half and the nature of the pain shifted from sharp to dull. he asked me to wiggle my foot. i told him what i felt. he laughs and goes, 'yeah, but i haven't done it yet. that wasn't the thing.' ok. so i close my eyes and he does his thing. it felt like a needle stitching the bone, passing back and forth, right where the impact was. it didn't hurt when this happened. when he was done, the swelling was gone, which was only slight to begin with. the bruisey color was gone. the redness at pt. of impact was gone. the pain was down by 90%. it felt great. i moved it around.
My friend gets a miracle healing from qigong master Jim Nance
edit on 17-9-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

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