What was God doing before "In the beginning"?

Originally posted by Sinny
That said, conciousness is infinate. No beggining, no end.

Infinity is a completely meaningless term.

Originally posted by stupid girl
there is is no "before" the beginning. No beginning, no before.

This is also completely meaningless.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

[color=FFBAF1]God is the ultimate realtity.

[color=FFBAF1]God is the Ultimate Fantasy.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Asking what our maker did before the beginning (of our universe) is like being a clay pot and wondering what the potter was doing before he made his first batch of clay pots.

I suppose that could have been an accurate analogy, if not for the simple fact that both the 'potter' and the clay actually existed before the first batch of clay pots was made.


The 'potters' story does not begin with:

[color=A1FCFF]1 In the beginning, the potter created the clays and the dirt.

2 And the clay was without form.

3 And the potter said, Let there be water, for which I shall use to mold my clay: and there was water.

4 And the potter saw the water, that it was good.

5 And the potter said, Let there be a heat in the midst of the damp waters, and let it divide the wet from the dry.

7 And the potter made the kiln, and heated the wet clay til it was no longer wet, thus holding the form it had been given.

8 And the potter looked upon his newly formed clay creation, and it was good.

9 And then there were clay pots, and they were nice.

10 And then the potter cleansed offeth his hands, and tooketh a nap.

reply to post by Glass

Originally posted by Glass

You can keep looking further and further, zooming out from the earth to the solar system to our galaxy to our cluster to the universe and whatever lies beyond, [color=C4FFD2]you will only see more and more forms of existence but never God itself, because the existence which it holds within itself is infinite.

OR
.....you will only see more and more forms of existence but never God itself, because the existence which it holds is that of a [color=C4FFD2]complete and total nonexistence, aside from within fictionalized folklore.




reply to post by network dude

reply to post by coop039


He was busy creating dinosaurs, just like humans he screwed up couldn't get them to cooperate and such so had to create a big rock and throw it at the earth. Then he had to figure out a way for the dinasurs to be found by humans in order to make it harder for them to believe he was real. He created an enemy for himself that sometimes goes by the name of Satan then got satan to magically turn the dinosaur remains into stone,. I think this was about the time that satan created the gorgon and got the gorgon to go around all the dinosaur remains staring at them to turn them to stone.

It would appear that the jew/xtian god at least was very busy before creating humans and the human type earth so he would have been quite tired asfter all this, we can see he was totally knackered after his 6 day creating binge warranting a whole day of rest so millions of years dinasour creating needed some searious R&R.

What god got up to after his 7nth day nap puzzles me, he stopped talking to everyone after a while stopped creating, hell he doesn't even take out the trash, one can only conclude that he died . This death of god begs another question, because he was such a twat of a father perhaps he had to obey by his own rules ans ended up in hell. Hm

Originally posted by Maroboduus

Originally posted by Sinny
That said, conciousness is infinate. No beggining, no end.

Infinity is a completely meaningless term.

You are mistaken; Infinity is defined as the state or quality of being infinite (having no limits)

Existence has no limit, nor does God.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by Glass

 

Originally posted by Glass

You can keep looking further and further, zooming out from the earth to the solar system to our galaxy to our cluster to the universe and whatever lies beyond, [color=C4FFD2]you will only see more and more forms of existence but never God itself, because the existence which it holds within itself is infinite.

OR
.....you will only see more and more forms of existence but never God itself, because the existence which it holds is that of a [color=C4FFD2]complete and total nonexistence, aside from within fictionalized folklore.

So you're saying that existence does not exist? Are you a nihilist?

Or are you saying that nothing created existence, nothing holds existence within itself and that this existence just sprung forth out of nothing and will eventually return to nothing?

What implications do you derive from this?

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by Maroboduus

Originally posted by Sinny
That said, conciousness is infinate. No beggining, no end.

Infinity is a completely meaningless term.

You are mistaken; Infinity is defined as the state or quality of being infinite (having no limits)

Existence has no limit, nor does God.

Yes, and "being infinite" is equally meaningless.

A sentence can only be meaningful if it has verifiable empirical import, otherwise it is either 'analytical' if tautologous, or 'metaphysical' (i.e. meaningless, or 'literally senseless')

To be meaningful, a statement must be either analytic (i.e. a tautology) or capable of being verified... (T)he validity of synthetic statements is not established merely by the definition of the words or symbols they contain... (I)f a statement expresses an empirical proposition, then the validity of the proposition is established by its empirical verifiability....(M)etaphysical statements have no literal meaning, and that they cannot be subjected to criteria of truth or falsehood.

It is almost impossible to discuss something that, not only do words fail, but we really don't even have the concepts. We want to have a linear thought about these things but I'm not sure we have the tools.

I think we can, however, get a glimpse.

Your question reminds me of this;


(sorry about the crappy music)

Fractal Mathematics.

This is not meant to be an answer, but a glimpse.

Originally posted by Maroboduus

To be meaningful, a statement must be either analytic (i.e. a tautology) or capable of being verified... (T)he validity of synthetic statements is not established merely by the definition of the words or symbols they contain... (I)f a statement expresses an empirical proposition, then the validity of the proposition is established by its empirical verifiability....(M)etaphysical statements have no literal meaning, and that they cannot be subjected to criteria of truth or falsehood.

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

Hmm, fair enough. The statement that existence is infinite cannot be verified since if existence has no limits then the limits will never be found.

We will continue to push the limits of our knowledge ad infinitum unless an actual limit is found, which will do away with the concept of infinity for good.

Well done, you've made your point. Now why dont you go back to your 9-to-5 daily grind, keep your eyes to the ground and never dare to dream of something greater than yourself while those of us with open minds continue to live in awe of this magnificent existence?

Originally posted by Glass

Originally posted by Maroboduus

To be meaningful, a statement must be either analytic (i.e. a tautology) or capable of being verified... (T)he validity of synthetic statements is not established merely by the definition of the words or symbols they contain... (I)f a statement expresses an empirical proposition, then the validity of the proposition is established by its empirical verifiability....(M)etaphysical statements have no literal meaning, and that they cannot be subjected to criteria of truth or falsehood.

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

Hmm, fair enough. The statement that existence is infinite cannot be verified since if existence has no limits then the limits will never be found.

We will continue to push the limits of our knowledge ad infinitum unless an actual limit is found, which will do away with the concept of infinity for good.

Well done, you've made your point. Now why dont you go back to your 9-to-5 daily grind, keep your eyes to the ground and never dare to dream of something greater than yourself while those of us with open minds continue to live in awe of this magnificent existence?

edit on 28/8/2012 by Glass because: (no reason given)

I wasn't aware that one had to delude themselves with fairy tales in order to appreciate "this magnificent existence."

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
BUT, what created God, before he was able to create all other things?

What was it like "outside of every box man tries to put him in."

I don't see why God needs a creator, and the premise of your question still implies time.
"first" and "last" are states that are defined by time.

I, like you, am bound to my humanity and limited imagination. I only understand a very... very... very small part of God's creation, so I know even less about the infinite, invisible God himself. Well, except for what I can glean from his revealed word and creation.
I don't know what it was like before creation, but I like looking at it through the scope of geometry and eliminate dimensions until I get a headache. 3-d... a box, 2-d... a square, 1-d... a line, 0-d.... a point.

A point specifies only location; it has no length, width, or depth. We usually represent a point with a dot on paper, but the dot we make has some dimension, while a true point has dimension 0.

Of course, there could have been anything, but we have no way of knowing.

reply to post by Maroboduus


Delusion is a belief held with conviction despite strong evidence to the contrary.

There is no evidence against the existence of any god or creative force.

It is not delusional to try to imagine what lies beyond what our eyes can see.

I understand that you hold a materialistic view of reality. You only accept what you can see or what scientific consensus can verify, and that's totally fine. Maybe you do live in awe... of what can be seen. For me that was never enough, my mind likes to push it to the next level.

Personally I think your view of existence is narrow and limited, but that's just my opinion.

I just have one more question; if you don't believe in anything beyond what you can verify, then why are you in this thread?

reply to post by Maroboduus


Oxford dictionary disagrees with you there

in·fi·nite/ˈinfənit/

Adjective:
Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate: "an infinite number of stars".

Originally posted by coop039
Another thread I was reading got me thinking about this.
I am in no way trying to bash Christians, Im just wanting to know what your thoughts are about this.

Before God created the heavens and earth, what was he doing? Was he alone in a vast nothingness? If he created everything who or what created him? is there a race of gods? Do they all have their own planets that they watch over? Just what was he doing? What was before god?

Im sure I will get the "he was in heaven with the angels" response, but Im wondering what was before that. If he created everything (heaven and angels included), What was he up to before all that?

The honest man will tell that we don't know where the mass and energy of the universe came from, nor the proposed god theme that blinked it into existance. That the creator for the universe is only a popular story, as no one even has a clue to if there is a god being.

The best man has been able to do is follow in the footsteps of the universe's creation, finding elements, physics of heavenly bodies, and the still existant chaos in the universe.

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by Maroboduus

 

Oxford dictionary disagrees with you there

in·fi·nite/ˈinfənit/

Adjective:
Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate: "an infinite number of stars".

Yes, there is an accepted definition of it. That does not mean it is a valid term. I assume they also have definitions for words such as "unicorn." Does that mean they are real? Does that mean that word has some basis in reality? No, it does not. Nice try, though...

Originally posted by Glass If you don't believe in anything beyond what you can verify, then why are you in this thread?

Because i have spent the vast majority of my life studying religion and metaphysics. One does not have to adhere to a religion in order to take an interest in them. I don't believe in demons, but i enjoy reading about/discussing witchcraft and demonology. Is that OK with you? Are only people who believe in UFO's allowed to participate in the UFO threads? I don't believe in talking sponges; should i refrain from discussing Spongebob with my children? I was under the impression that this website was for the discussion of multiple and varied viewpoints....

Originally posted by Glass
I understand that you hold a materialistic view of reality....Personally I think your view of existence is narrow and limited, but that's just my opinion.

I wasn't aware that you were a mind-reader. You know nothing of my view of reality and existence. Please explain to me how you can infer the entirety of my belief system based solely upon the fact that i said infinity is, for all intents and purposes, a meaningless term.

From a non religious, and non judgmental point of view.
Perhaps there is validity to the multiverse theory. And at the time of Charging-up the point of infinite energy that eventually let loose, chilled out, and condensed into OUR reality.
God was busy working on other projects, other universes. Those, in turn allowed God to drive the energy from those, to ours. Which eventually changed , from pure energy, to a combination of cooler matter, and energy.
We, as human-centric, consider OUR Universe as God's only project.
Maybe God was a lot busier than we can ever imagine?

he was busy trying to beat the last level of donkey kong

Originally posted by Maroboduus
Because i have spent the vast majority of my life studying religion and metaphysics. One does not have to adhere to a religion in order to take an interest in them. I don't believe in demons, but i enjoy reading about/discussing witchcraft and demonology. Is that OK with you? Are only people who believe in UFO's allowed to participate in the UFO threads? I don't believe in talking sponges; should i refrain from discussing Spongebob with my children? I was under the impression that this website was for the discussion of multiple and varied viewpoints....

Thanks for the reply. It's a bit easier to have polite conversation now, knowing where you're coming from.

Belief is not a prerequisite for these sort of discussions, if it were I would never have reached any sort of understanding of existence.

I was under the impression that you were a wayward troll looking to cause meaningless arguments about meanings and provide nothing meaningful to this meaningless discussion.

Originally posted by Glass
I understand that you hold a materialistic view of reality....Personally I think your view of existence is narrow and limited, but that's just my opinion.

I wasn't aware that you were a mind-reader. You know nothing of my view of reality and existence. Please explain to me how you can infer the entirety of my belief system based solely upon the fact that i said infinity is, for all intents and purposes, a meaningless term.

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)

It was your statement regarding deluding oneself with fairy tales that implied some degree of atheism. I do not recall implying that I subscribe to any one religion's particular "fairy tale" so I might very well react with the same sort of indignation that you display...

But I won't because I find it tiresome.

God does not exist…..

But your question brought up an image for me of a little boy in robes burning ants with a magnifying glass…. and enjoying it.

Because that’s the sadistic way he rolls.

Mickierocksman