reply to post by Maymunah
There TWELVE tribes of Israel, not just ONE. Do you know them by face? Meaning can you point to someone on a YouTube or photo and say "oh they are of
the tribe of Gad" for example? No. You cannot.
You're taking the significance of Israel far to literally
In terms of ethnic descent from the ancient Hebrews (or if you prefer, residents of Judea) there are many Jews alive today living in Israel who meet
But that in itself is a materialistic and superficial definition: Judaism is a RELIGION; the significance of the land of Israel, besides being the
birthplace of the Jewish people, is also the locale of the Torah, the living out of the commands God gave to the Israelites i.e. the Jews, in everyday
So, first and foremost, the significance of the land of Israel is it's religiosity and sacredness to followers of Judaism.
Just as Muslims feel a particular attachment to the cities of Mecca and Medina - and those environments reflect the particular theology of Islam, so
too does the land of Israel embody the memory and spirit of Judaism.
Judaism - and western culture - aren't quite alike. Judaism, while existing in a western cultural context, tends to become influenced by it. Thus, in
order for Judaism to truly be Judaism, and for the Jewish people who have a different perception of how life should be lived - for these realities to
come about, it must be actualized in the holy land of Israel.
There's the ethnic and cultural component - which most Jews in any case meet (particularly cohanim), and then theres the religious part, which runs
deeper - albeit - probably not appreciated by proponents of other philosophies. But nonetheless, just as feel a particular relationship between a land
and their spirit - so do Jews, and Israel is that land.
If you want to talk about Israel at all, get some knowledge first, learn the history and the story there and not from some YouTube.
I guess you havent been posting here very long. Go click on my name and look up the 10's of threads ive created and the 100's of other threads I've
I know the history - fully. My knowledge of the subject, from Judaism, to Early Zionism, from it's foundings, to the various Jewish factions, the
beginning of palestinian "nationality", the wars, etc etc. I have studied it all. I have some 40 or some odd books in my library on the Jewish,
Zionist, and Israel/Palestinian conflict.
If you take the above writing the wrong way then I don't know what more to tell you because it's the truth for any of us who want to "take sides" or
be some armchair warrior for this cause or that cause.
There are certain situations in which taking sides is far harder, and indeed, it is wiser to take a neutral stance. This is not one of those
situations. Israel - and the Jews - are entitled to a state; as are the Kurds, the Tibetans, Basque, etc. Fair? Why not. Why do the Arabs - who the
Palestinians are really a subsection of, get to have 22, 23 states? While the Jews - who fulfill basic criteria to be qualified as a people i.e.
Language - Hebrew, Religion - Judaism, Culture - Ashkenazi/Sephardic, and a history going back further than any people alive today - how can anyone
say, in fairness, that they don't deserve a state? It's inane. It's a double standard.
(As per my previous post, I am not in agreement with how the state of Israel handles the situation not only regarding the Palestinians but also the
Jewish and/or Hebrew citizens.)
Honestly, it is ironic that it is you telling me - and you appear to me to be an honest truth seeker - that I need to educate myself further.
The Palestinians don't want peace, have never wanted peace, and in fact, theres too much inner disagreement amongst themselves to ever come to a
unanimous position regarding peace. Fatah has it's own interests different from Hamas. Hamas is directed by Iran - an Islamist state and largest
sponsor of terrorism. How can Israel hope for peace when the parties involved have done nothing but undermine and reject it?? The demands they make -
for "right of return" is unreasonable. It would destroy Israel demographically, and they know that, which means they aren't sincere about making
Think about it. Israel Jewish population is 6 million. It already has some 1.8 million Arabs in Israel. If the right of return were enacted, 4 million
Arabs - living comfortably elsewhere, and have personally never known Israel - could claim that right to return to Israel - and not the territories.
That would make the demography completely level. That means, the Arabs could come into control of the government and eventually change it in whatever
shape or form they desire: Jewish national holidays? Out. Jewish religious holidays? Israel - as the name of the Jewish state?? It's a demeaning thing
to ask, and so they ask - Israel rejects - and so negotiations go nowhere.
Hamas has worked more for "The State of Israel" than they have for the Palestinian people
Are you serious? Hamas is the ideological child of the Muslim Brotherhood. Is Israel also behind that!? and as for Hamas "working for Israel". That is
so absurd, I dont know where to begin. Besides Israel making use of Hamas against Fatah - that was for Israels own interests. And Hamas - accepting
the weapons and support they got from Israel - allowed Israel to supply it without allowing Israel to control it. Understand?? Politics is a very
sophisticated game. Everyone HAS THEIR OWN INTERESTS.
Hamas is an Islamist party. The Muslim Brotherhood is an Islamist organization, and now ruling government in Egypt. The MB founded Hamas. Hamas and
the MB keep a tight correspondence with each other, as well as with Hezbollah and the Islamist regime in Iran.
edit on 29-8-2012 by dontreally
because: (no reason given)