Abortion from a mans point of view

reply to post by Charmed707

What did I say that wasn't true?

You don't seem to understand the basics of female biology and ovulation or understand the life of the sperm. A woman can become pregnant up to 5 days after intercourse. Ovulation can be brought on, out of cycle, by sexual arousal, and happen hours, even days, after intercourse. Remedies like a diaphragm and the rhythm method will fail inder these circumstances.

No, no one is a victim of biology and certainly not a victim of situations brought about by their own actions.

Your argument is circular, illogical and based on your personal bias. On one hand you say the women are not victims of their biology and then on the other hand you if a woman indulges her biological urges and gets pregnant, then ethically, she must bear the biological responsibilities forced on her by biology.

You place some sort of magical attributes on a biological process and then impose your personal morals accordingly.

You "believe" that the fertilized egg is sacred, therefore condemning a majority of the kinds of birth control being used today, such as "The Pill," the IUD" and the "Morning After Pill. This would make women even more the victims of their biology.

Your only argument is that women should either abstain and ignore their physical needs, or get sterilized, ending any prospect of motherhood at a later date when they are ready, willing and able to be a parent.

Your viewpoint is unreasonable, outdated and puritanical. That sex Genii isn't going back into the bottle. Sexual expression isn't going to diminish, and stifling it is only going to make matters worse.

'Victims' are innocent bystanders.

This is a very uninformed and myopic viewpoint. Any psychiatrist will tell you that this is not true. Victims often act out their abuses and the cycle of abuse continues and is perpetuated.

Originally posted by davidsander
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Impose morals? How about imposing your morals of murder? Ya, im a monster for believeing in self control and willpower. Abstaining from an activity that you have no business partaking in, because a mother who aborts her child is obviously not ready for the consequences. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Sex isn't a crime! Imposing forced childbearing on an individual as a punishment for sexual activity is tyranny and slavery.

Are you one of those people that thinks a fertilized egg is a holy and sacred thing too? Do you also oppose certain types of birth control and see "The Pill" the "IUD" and the "Morning After Pill" as murder?

reply to post by TempleCat

Again - a belief system that thinks a fertilized egg is a "person".

Your argument is based on the belief system that fetuses are not worthy of any rights and that women can be victims of their own actions. There are proponents of abortion that argue that babies in general don't have personhood- even after they born.

Being the host of a fertilized egg is not a reason for denial of rights to an actual viable human being.

A woman who gets pregnanat as a result of her actions is not having her rights violated.

Nope - Forcing another person to do your bidding by forced incubation is slavery.

But you don't have a problem with slavery- you think it's acceptable to force someone to pay for the choices of others.

Women's bodies carry a pregnancy. Therefore - whether she carries it or not is ultimately up to her. I recall saying there are many issues that factor in.

My point is that abortion is NOT an issue that only affects 'women's bodies'.

Men contribute 50% of the genetics.

....but genetics don't matter to you. The fact that it's genetically your child has no relevance in being able to avoid responsibility for it. Contribution to genetics doesn't mean he has a choice in whether his child will live or die. There's no logical reason why he should be obligated to pay for a woman's choice.

No, again, because the man also has 50% responsibility in getting her pregnant in the first place.

...and he has 0% responsibility in choosing to grow a child that will need to be taken care of. Again, his actions in getting her pregnant doesn't mean he has any say whether an 'actual child' will be created or not. That's 100% the responsibility of the woman, therefore, the child's needs are 100% her responsibility.

You play, you pay.

That's not how it works. Women aren't forced to pay when they play. Sex is a seperate issue from reproduction. Consenting to sex is not consenting to parenthood.

The woman pays, why shouldn't the man?

The woman is the one makes the choice to create a child. She chose not to have an abortion and chose to grow a child that would need to be taken care of.

You do know men don't own women in America, right?

...but women own men?

You're advocating for control of women and then telling them it's the only reason men should take responsibility. I don't think you're really thinking any of this through.

You're advocating for the control of men and telling them that they're responsible for women's choices. I don't think you're really thinking this through.

Nature dictates that the woman carries the child.

The notion that women have a 'right' to abortion and that men have no say in the matter and are still obligated to take responsibility is a modern social construct created by deadbeats.

If he really cared about the person he was doing the horizontal bop with he would be supportive of her struggles to make the right choice for them all, anyway.

Since when does having sex with someone equal caring about them? Even if he does care about her, that doesn't mean he doesn't care about his child....and if she kills his child. then he has absolutley no obligation to respect or support her in any way whatsoever. If women can make choices for men, then it's only logical that men can make choices for women.

Children should have their father's emotional and/or financial support.

If they don't even have to have their mother's life support, then forget all those trivial aspects. Besides, women are now financially independent and can pay for their own choices.

Your personal skewed opinion does not equal reality.

You can't refute what I said.

The ONLY positive thing I can see coming from rampant abortion on demand is that it's killing western civilization faster.

reply to post by luciddream


wow 100000% agree. When my husband just finished highschool his then girlfiend got pregnant. he and his family wanted to keep the child and raise it. Since its a womans choice she had an abortion. 40 yrs later it still bothers him. I think if its consentual then the man should also have a say! If she does not want it fine, then let him have it.

reply to post by windword


I guess to answer your question, I am one of those people who is tired of watching our culture devolve into a society with no accountability. Sex isnt a crime, your perfectly correct there. and the words "holy" and "sacred" are loaded in the context you use them. I wont use those words. I will say human life is precious, just as precious as any kind of life. I think we've been duped by a group of people much more organized and focused than regular civilians. They don't mind one bit watching a bunch of working class monkeys murder their children. Have a bit of self respect, thats what I'd like to say to the American people, and any other group of people who think murdering children is alright.

Originally posted by tluna1
reply to post by luciddream

 

wow 100000% agree. When my husband just finished highschool his then girlfiend got pregnant. he and his family wanted to keep the child and raise it. Since its a womans choice she had an abortion. 40 yrs later it still bothers him. I think if its consentual then the man should also have a say! If she does not want it fine, then let him have it.

If you can figure out a way for him to CARRY it, then by all means.

I will say human life is precious, just as precious as any kind of life.

If human life was so precious you guys would stop ostracizing atheists and homosexuals and Jews and any other people who don't follow your bs dogma.

You guys want to hold other people accountable for their actions but you never hold your fellow Christians from their actions. Such as where is the Christian outcry against Fred Phelps who celebrates things like Mathew Shephard getting beat up and killed because he was gay?

police your own people first, and stop it with the crap double standards of "do as I say not as I do" then we can talk about accountability.

Until then, all you people will do is cherry pick what you like and don't like and whine whine whine about it all the way to hell.

Originally posted by tluna1
reply to post by luciddream

 

wow 100000% agree. When my husband just finished highschool his then girlfiend got pregnant. he and his family wanted to keep the child and raise it. Since its a womans choice she had an abortion. 40 yrs later it still bothers him. I think if its consentual then the man should also have a say! If she does not want it fine, then let him have it.

You know, I really appreciate this example, so thank you tluna. A lot of women on this thread and even a male Moderator, are trying to portray men as murderous beasts (and in some contexts they are right) but what gives? If a man wants to have a child, and consensual sex has provided a man and a woman with the opportunity, what gives a woman the right to murder it?

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

I will say human life is precious, just as precious as any kind of life.

If human life was so precious you guys would stop ostracizing atheists and homosexuals and Jews and any other people who don't follow your bs dogma.

You guys want to hold other people accountable for their actions but you never hold your fellow Christians from their actions. Such as where is the Christian outcry against Fred Phelps who celebrates things like Mathew Shephard getting beat up and killed because he was gay?

police your own people first, and stop it with the crap double standards of "do as I say not as I do" then we can talk about accountability.

Until then, all you people will do is cherry pick what you like and don't like and whine whine whine about it all the way to hell.

your assuming im a christian? I appreciate you taking the liberty to identify my religion, but as I already stated, I am agnostic. I love all people equally, doesnt matter their race, creed or religion ( I myself think religion is stupid, but I don't think a person who practices religion is stupid) yup, jewish christian muslim, their all the same to me, humans, full of life. (people who celebrate someone being beaten and murdered are terrible. )

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


since were are on the subject, I am agnostic, and I am for life, what is your religion pray tell?

reply to post by davidsander

I guess to answer your question, I am one of those people who is tired of watching our culture devolve into a society with no accountability.

What do mean by "watching our culture devolve into a society with no accountability?"

Do you mean raping the Earth of natural resources and leaving the land, air, water and food supply polluted and genetically modified? Do you mean leaving our children a planet on the brink of WWIII and financial disaster. Do you mean coddling religions that want to destroy our life style?

Do you mean that by altering history in the public schools in order to place certain political and religious beliefs in a better light? Do you mean teaching creationism in schools, and letting religious special interest groups dictate to control our courts, schools and legislature?

The Patriot Act, the Federal Reserve, the Iraq War? Is that what you mean by a devolved culture of no accountability?

reply to post by davidsander


I'm a believer, but I don't call myself a Christian because i'm very hostile towards them. And right now I'm still trying to iron things out.

You calling abortion murder is what religious pro-lifers do a lot.

And it's a blanket judgement and is just out and out wrong.

reply to post by windword


no I guess I just meant having sex, getting pregnant and then killing off your spawn just because its inconvienient, you have some good points their about raping the resources and a few other points you listed, but specifically, no thats not what I meant.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I will take issue with you there, killing a baby-to-be is murder, and calling it such is not wrong.

reply to post by davidsander


You have to prove these things:

Abortion is murder.

A fetus is a baby while still in the womb.

Until then, all you're doing is asserting your opinion as a fact.

Until you can actually PROVE it, and not just claim it, it's not.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


semantics?

reply to post by davidsander


No. I hate semantic arguments to no end. You are the one making a claim, the onus is on you to prove it.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Well, since the onus is mine,

I can't prove anything to anyone, I couldnt "prove" that the sky was blue to a color blind man who didnt want to believe it.

but, if you let a woman carry a fetus to full gestation, something living will come out, if you hook a vaccuum to that same womans and suck out the content of her womb, something living doesnt come out. I call that murder.

Best way I can describe it, now I will hear your rebuttle, and then I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

reply to post by davidsander


i'm going to agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

reply to post by davidsander


what i think is funny is a ironic, crappy way is that when a woman gives birth to the baby the second the baby leaves her vagina the man is financialy responible for it too. He has to pay child support. But up intill the second it leaves the vagine it is a fetus and he has no say. REALLY? It magicaly becomes a living humand baby the second it leaves the vagina but until then it is this non-feeling thing called a fetus! WHAT CRAP!.

and for the record i am a MOM and a damn good one!