Why should the rich pay more taxes?

The real question should be, why don't the middle class and the poor pay less in taxes?

This should be the real question, but class warfare and class envy seeks to blame the rich.

Many rich people are smart with their money. Instead of wasting and spending money on depreciating assets, they invest their money into things that can appreciate like stocks and real estate. In some cases they pay no taxes and they shouldn't pay any. Let me show you three ways the rich pay less in taxes.

1. Own a Corporation - There's plenty of tax benefits that can be derived from starting a Corporation. It's easy to start a Corporation or LLC. This is a favorite of liberals in Hollywood that claim they love big Government.

Every actor or singer will have a production company even if they don't produce anything. This allows them to get paid and run the money through a Corporation. Corporations don't pay taxes upfront like earned income. This allows them to re-invest in their business or maybe do some angel investing and invest in the next You Tube.

Actors and Singers use it to avoid paying taxes and this is why so many of them get into tax trouble. You get paid 5 million for a movie and you just run it through your Corporation so you don't have to pay taxes in the same way as earned income where the taxes are taken out of your paycheck before you get paid.

2. Investments - Many of the rich or people well off invest. When these investments payoff, they just pay a capital gains tax. This is why the Warren Buffet Secretary story was a big lie. Buffet's Secretary made a half a million dollars a year and lives good. They acted as though she was Bob Cratchit.

Buffet's Secretary paid money on earned income while Buffet paid a Capital Gains tax. If Buffet's Secretary were to invest in stocks or real estate and she made a profit, she would pay Capital Gains on that profit. If Buffet wanted to give the Government more money, he could have wrote the Treasury a check or paid himself a big salary that would be taxed as earned income.

People also talk about people investing overseas. They should invest overseas if they see an emerging market that will give them a nice return. Many Democrats invest overseas.

3. Debt Equity - This means you will pay ZERO TAXES and you shouldn't.

Say you own 10 Houses and an Apartment Building. You have made smart investments with your money and now you have $500,000 in equity. The Government can't tax equity because it's not earned income and it's not capital gains unless you sale the properties.

Now you go to the bank and take out a loan against the equity you have in the properties. Well, the Government can't tax borrowed money. So you don't pay earned income or capital gains tax and you're living tax free. Again, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just being a smart investor.

If you invested in Google early on, you can just borrow against those shares instead of selling them and paying a Capital Gains tax. If you bought a painting in 1985 for $500,000 and now it's worth 5 million, you can borrow against the 4.5 million of equity using the painting as collateral for the loan.

At the end of the day, the question should be how can the poor and the middle class keep more of their money instead of class warfare. The way you can accomplish this is through a national sales tax.

If a person makes $1,000 at work then they take home a paycheck for $1,000. This way people can manage their money better. This is how many people build wealth. Sadly, Democrats make sure that everyone is a victim and without them taking your money and wasting and spending it, you couldn't survive.

Are there crooks? Of course. You get crooks in all walks of life but most people who are well off or rich are just smart when it comes to investments.

Can you blame Steve Jobs (R.I.P.) for being rich because people line up around the world to buy iPhones and iPads?

Can you blame Mark Cuban for being rich because Yahoo acquired Broadcast.com for 5.9 billion?

This class warfare nonsense needs to stop.

Originally posted by neoholographic
The real question should be, why don't the middle class and the poor pay less in taxes?

Because our country is falling apart. It is starting to look like crap and is getting more and more dangerous.

It is because people don't get rich without riding the backs of others. I think profits made on the backs of other people should be taxed higher than profits made through one's own sweat.

Originally posted by neoholographic
This class warfare nonsense needs to stop.

Shots have been fired by the superpac rich.
War is here, your arguing that the non-super rich need to stop fighting so the rich can do the usual and win...stop using the government (the institution designed to protect us from these vampires) to try and do its job..aka, protect and keep the ladder visible for the rest of us.

Save the rich doesn't go over well. Tax rate..you will find the most productive societies on earth also have the largest tax rates..check your local wikipedia and you will see something interesting. The more the government progressively (and properly) institutes balances between rich and poor, the greater the society is. Most northern european areas have a very high tax rate...and also have ignored this global recession for the most part. You will also find the lowest tax rates on earth are hellholes. This is not a coincidence.
Companies are fantastic..they are the backbone of our (and other) nations. Corporations however are vamps that only salt the earth where they land.

And why pay higher tax rates? Oh, mostly because we like roads, clean water, etc...go check out a country with a disfunctional or non existant government..lemme know how lovely it is. Try Somolia

Don't get me wrong. I do not think welfare is a good idea because of my big bleeding heart love...quite the opposite. I don't want to see the poor people begging for food on the corners..it offends me and annoys me. I want some institution to remove this from my sight, and if I pay a few extra bucks a paycheck to remove the smellys from my favorite corner and set them up in a house/food/education, then fantastic..what a deal.
You can go find a world where you literally got to walk over homeless starving and old people if thats your desire, but not in my country, bub. And, I got a -lot- more people that see it my way than whom see it your way.

Simple; They can afford it.

If they make more $ in a week, or a day than some people make in a lifetime, I'm certain they might be able to manage to scrape by somehow, if only barely with a million per year.

"...they pay no taxes and they shouldn't pay any."

Let's just say if you think the rich shouldn't pay any taxes then no amount of reasoning is going to change your mind.

The rich ALREADY pay the taxes. The top 1% pay over a third of the taxes. The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. The bottom 50% pay a little over 3% of the taxes with 43 million returns paying NOTHING at all. Want to know why you don't have a job? Because the dollar that would have been invested, saved, or spent, all options that put money into the economy, went to the government instead.

100%: 139,960,580 returns paid taxes of $1,031,512mil for 100% AGI for 100% of taxes
Top 1%: 1,399,606 returns paid $392,149mil for 20.70% AGI for 38.02% of taxes
Top 5%: 6,998,029 returns paid $213,569mil for 34.73% AGI for 58.72% share
Top 10%: 13,996,068 returns paid $721,421mil for 45.77% AGI for 69.94% of taxes
Top 25%: 34,990,145 returns paid $890,614mil for 67.38% AGI for 86.34% of taxes
Top 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $1,003,639mil for 87.25% AGI for 97.30% of taxes
Bottom 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $27,783 mil for 12.75% AGI for 2.59% of taxes.

AGI = Adjusted Gross Income. So to put this in story problem form:

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes

Now let’s put that in perspective.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 5% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $159,619.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.

reply to post by TheComte


Sometimes they shouldn't if they're living off of debt equity.

If I bought a painting for $500,000 in 1985 and now it's worth 4.5 million, then I could be a millionaire and pay no taxes because I don't make any earned income or capital gains. I'm just living off the equity from the painting.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS!!

Of course CLASS ENVY will say otherwise but it's just a smart investment.

Originally posted by schuyler
The rich ALREADY pay the taxes. The top 1% pay over a third of the taxes. The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes. The bottom 50% pay a little over 3% of the taxes with 43 million returns paying NOTHING at all. Want to know why you don't have a job? Because the dollar that would have been invested, saved, or spent, all options that put money into the economy, went to the government instead.

100%: 139,960,580 returns paid taxes of $1,031,512mil for 100% AGI for 100% of taxes
Top 1%: 1,399,606 returns paid $392,149mil for 20.70% AGI for 38.02% of taxes
Top 5%: 6,998,029 returns paid $213,569mil for 34.73% AGI for 58.72% share
Top 10%: 13,996,068 returns paid $721,421mil for 45.77% AGI for 69.94% of taxes
Top 25%: 34,990,145 returns paid $890,614mil for 67.38% AGI for 86.34% of taxes
Top 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $1,003,639mil for 87.25% AGI for 97.30% of taxes
Bottom 50%: 69,980,290 returns paid $27,783 mil for 12.75% AGI for 2.59% of taxes.

AGI = Adjusted Gross Income. So to put this in story problem form:

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes

Now let’s put that in perspective.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 5% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $159,619.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.

GREAT POST!!

The Class envy stuff is just silly and everyones talking about the rich, what about the close to 16 trillion in debt from these crooks in Washington?

Where were the shovel ready jobs Obama and the Democrats talked about after the stimulus?

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
It is because people don't get rich without riding the backs of others. I think profits made on the backs of other people should be taxed higher than profits made through one's own sweat.

That's a ridiculous statement. There are lots of very wealthy people that did get there by starting a business, working long hours to build it, managing wisely, then growing it smartly, investing their profits, building their portfolio, paying attention, observing and taking advantage of opportunities to sell, re-invest, and/or expand.

This idea that everybody that is wealthy got there off somebody else's sweat is a liberal myth.

Originally posted by neoholographic
The real question should be...

... how 99.999% of US citizens have been duped into paying an unapportioned federal/state income tax (only businesses must pay unapportioned tax), and how we can spread awareness about this about this deceit and reveal its absurdity as nothing more than a tribute to a tyrant who threatens you with theft of property/freedom if you fail to pay that tribute.

Why should the rich pay more taxes? Not a relevant question.

More relevant: Why should ANYONE be paying taxes?


(Long video but worth the watch)

The biggest LIE passed is that if you are not rich, you aren't working. What a steaming pile of poop. Some of the hardest damn workers are the middle and low -income- folks. they work 40-60 or more hours a week and are scraping by, even requiring assistance and such.

Then you got some =idiot= cheerleader commenting on how rich people are there because of hard work and poor people are non workers, and that if somehow the poor person could free up a extra few bucks a week by having their healthcare or whatnot paid for, it will suddenly turn into some drugged out dorm room with everyone taking naps on silk pillows and doing nothing.

I really, really get ticked off at that mindset..then when that mindset comes to ATS, (see above list pushers) where the motto is deny ignorance, I just wonder what keeps them here. Clearly they are not here to try and learn..facts. They just want to push a lie..a easy to identify and debunk lie for political purposes..or maybe they just relish in the humiliation when someone with a actual reasonable mindset and/or facts comes in and exposes what a total imp they are being.

The only thing i wonder is how the rich con so many of the poor to defend them, and pay the tab for them.. They are not doing anything for you, and you will never be a part of there ranks!

Originally posted by queenofswords
This idea that everybody that is wealthy got there off somebody else's sweat is a liberal myth.

You will find most CEOs and high investers in todays corporations are not self made. They are born into money.

I don't begrudge rich people though...I want to be considered rich one day also...silly rich preferrably (then I can actually advance technologies verses buy diamond coated houses or other tripe the current tardrich do).

And since the highest income brackets are paying the lowest rates in us history..its a moot point. Now, all we gotta do is close the loopholes that allows them to pay less taxes than a janitor and we are good.

Originally posted by queenofswords

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
It is because people don't get rich without riding the backs of others. I think profits made on the backs of other people should be taxed higher than profits made through one's own sweat.

That's a ridiculous statement. There are lots of very wealthy people that did get there by starting a business, working long hours to build it, managing wisely, then growing it smartly, investing their profits, building their portfolio, paying attention, observing and taking advantage of opportunities to sell, re-invest, and/or expand.

This idea that everybody that is wealthy got there off somebody else's sweat is a liberal myth.

Name one person that ever did any of that on their own.

reply to post by neoholographic


Your reasoning is flawed. If, as you say, the person lives off the "equity" of the painting, then they will have to borrow on that equity to pay their everyday expenses: food, mortgage, car, etc. If they borrow, then they will have to pay back the loan. Where will they get the money to pay the first loan? Obviously, they just have to take another loan. No problem, right? Wrong. You still need to have an income to pay your loans or eventually you've borrowed more than the painting is worth. Then what do you do?

Now, if you buy a painting and it appreciates in value, you only realize those earnings when you sell the painting. This is considered income and would be taxed at the appropriate rate. Whether it's considered capital gains or investment income, I'm not sure.

Anyway, you are way over-simplifying the whole thing. Whether you earn interest income, or capital gains, or wages, or salary, it is subject to some form of tax.

any rich person with a brain should volunteer to pay more to keep the system going

without us bottom feeder consumers buying their stuff, they all go broke

The poor feel the taxes more than the rich do because they have more income The fact is the rich not all have lost all sight of what is right and wrong. And they than claim their good christens.

Was Christ poor or rich who he care for first? Not saying i am a believer or anything, but the rich live a lifestyle that is not common with most of the people who live today.

reply to post by neoholographic


Well the rich not being taxed more wouldnt be an issue if they didnt hoard it all. Get rich and spend your money have fun, donate, expand businesses, create more, Build rockets and shoot them at wyoming... just dont put it all in a box and let it mold when their are others out here waiting for the trickle down

So the money can be stolen err.. redistributed with the implicit effect that politicians can buy votes with it.

Some people have this myth that the rich make the working stiff slave away, when most of the economic productivity is caused by a small group of innovators that create the jobs.