My Hypocrisy Towards Homosexuality: A Personal Revelation

reply to post by Thescripter

Usually I take her in the men's bathroom if it's empty but it was occupied and she had to go NOW. So off she went to the restroom and within a minute or so in walked a male transsexual, very obvious one at that, (I won't go into details) and right into the woman's bathroom

I am glad you brought that up. This has been on my mind for years (kinda forgotten recently). Looks like I can relate to this thread after all!

I used to be a bouncer at this really big dance club. There were a large group of male transexuals. They identified as women but had not gone through sex change operations. Did I use the term correctly anyone? Almost once a week they would show up. They always went into the female restroom.

Well I would tell them to get out and use the mens restroom. I was really torn. They would use them every week and every week I would tell them to get out. It felt wrong to me on behalf of the women.

I want to say you can't until you go through the operation... but that feels wrong

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

I want to say you can't until you go through the operation... but that feels wrong

That would bring the question of how do you prove that they are pre-op or post-op? This opens a whole new mess that I can think of no way to handle short of gropers at public restrooms

Normally I would just not worry about it, but leave it to kids to shatter everything I think

reply to post by Thescripter


Well in this particular case myself and bouncers had spoken to them on many occasions. They told us they were pre-op, identified as women. We believed them on both fronts.

This wasn't the case in my scenario, but I can see the concern of some pervert lying about it just to get into the female restroom... this is a tuff one.. I wouldn't want this hypothetical pervert going into a restroom with women especially minors.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Remember that kids aren't born with hate in their hearts or prejudice, that's something they learn along the way from the people around them. I've recently had to sit my son down and really make him think hard about how he's been treating people.

He's become beligerant and rude and we don't put up with that in our house. Once he really understood how it felt to be treated that way, to be brought down to his level, he's now getting better at it.

As long as you and your better half don't teach him these things, most of the time he'll take a very balanced approach to what he considers normal.

~Tenth

I wish more people were aware of this or at least put it to work in their homes/families. I find it an awful shame that folks feel the need to seed any kind of hate or prejudice into the innocent minds/hearts of children.

Children aren't born seeing differences in color or gender as a bad thing. They are usually drawn to things that are different and are curious about them. Only later are they "taught" (either good or bad) that color does make a difference, sexual preference does make a difference, etc. They aren't born hating anything. A good example is an abusive parent. The child still holds great love for a parent that is abusive to them until they are old enough to be taught that what the parent is doing to them is terribly wrong. They are just born to love and trust. A clean slate so to speak. We and society (at times) take too lightly what we write on that slate. Changes that occur within children are caused by what they are taught, what they see on a daily basis, what they may overhear, etc.

What a great responsibility many abuse or take for granted.

Originally posted by Sulie

Originally posted by smyleegrl
[.

So just a few posts after you mention that all we need is love, you're accusing someone of egotism? Interesting.

His experiences as a gay parent are very relevant to this thread, and much appreciated.

..

No, don't you see it? This person is proud of raising his child in a non-traditional family setting, and when I mentioned the use of tampons and instructing a child how to use them, got defensive.

That's not my bag, to insult, but if a person is so self centered to say they raised a child, out of a homosexual relationship. and didn't think that would come up, for themselves to explain while raising a child, I think it's damn selfish. As a parent, one should be able to figure out how to explain that to a child, through love. If the parent raises a child it should come from them, not a relative or friend,

To raise a child takes planning on the part of a parent, not some outside source. There was no love given to this child from a parent in regards on how to insert a tampon.

I didn't see anywhere where Tenth said that neither he nor his partner DIDN'T have this conversation with his daughter. What I saw was him explaining that she did have female role models that she could talk to if she needed to. That is NEVER a bad thing.

What does a single man do when the time comes for this discussion if his wife has died or just left? It is no different. Usually even in a Male/Female parenting situation one parent is always more comfortable discussing this with their children than the other. A lot of them have the father take the son aside and the mother will take the daughter aside.

Tenth's daughter obviously was taught what she needed to learn and if she attended public schools she probably knew what she was supposed to do long before she had to do it at any rate. Mine did.

Why does this make you so angry?

I really like this question you ask! I will sleep on it and get back to ya

Originally posted by smyleegrl
But today, I had to confront a very difficult question. Am I a hypocrite? I think the answer is…..yes.

Why wouldn't a mother want her son to meet a nice girl, get married and produce some grandchildren?

Being accepting of homosexuality does not mean that a parent is indifferent to whether a son is homosexual or not.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Why wouldn't a mother want her son to meet a nice girl, get married and produce some grandchildren?

Ultimately the mother wants the happiness of her son. Right? So if producing grandchildren you mean from a heterosexual relationship, then that would be at the expense of his happiness as he would be in a relationship that wouldn't allow him to love through intimacy and romance with the fullness of what it would have been with the sex inline with his natural orientation (assuming he would be able to at all).

Being accepting of homosexuality does not mean that a parent is indifferent to whether a son is homosexual or not.

I would argue accepting them for who they are is not compatible with that in most scenarios we could discuss.

If the parent was concerned about her child being homosexual because of the social ramifications due to discrimination... that I could understand.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Wow, star & flag for such personal honesty.

I have to say that I'm not gay and that homosexuality creeps me out a bit.

I have been propositioned numerous times by homosexual men and one of them just wouldn't take no for an answer, so even joking about it gets me on edge and defensive.

I try to be open minded but my natural reactions remain.

I tend to see it as it is described in the Bible, that homosexuality is a judgement upon a society that embraces Godlessness.

Not very politically correct, I know (its not the people I dislike, it's their actions).

reply to post by smyleegrl


I have seen many boys paint their nails.

Or their mothers paint their nail.

If you teach your son about family and children , how to know his abilities and use them , he will prefer to be what he is.

Other way , if you teach him to be dependent , he will be less male than he is naturally.

He will not be responsible , although needs to feed his needs.

Then he accepts being female.

My opinion was about the difference male and female , not about superiority.

reply to post by chr0naut

Not very politically correct, I know (its not the people I dislike, it's their actions).

It's not very a number of things

Calling it their 'actions' is undermining the gravity of their situation. It's a full on sexual orientation out of their control. Dislike it if you wish, call it abomination if you desire, but please understand calling it 'actions' is way too simplistic of a view and in fact greatly undervalues even heterosexual orientation as they are the same (minus the obvious omission of the sexes involved). I assume you understand it is an orientation not of choice.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
There were a large group of male transexuals. They identified as women but had not gone through sex change operations. Did I use the term correctly anyone?

There is debate about this and confusion. It's deemed respectful to refer to male to female trans persons as female trans in most respects since it's acknowledging where they are going not where they are.

And honestly, OP ... your reaction is understandble. I'm not a massive fan of divulging personal stories for the sake of it but ... I've had similar reactions myself to some topics. It's hard not to. I had a very young friend a while ago come out as trans to me and honestly my first reaction was actually fear and some odd kind of shock.

Everyone wants the best for their friends, family and children. To hear a person admit that they're gay or transsexual or visit that possibility wtih your children will bring about those feelings I believe. It took me a while to process it - days actually. I tried to talk my friend out of it at first, and with hind sight I hadn't actually heard my friend out on how they actually felt. I just jumped straight to it.

Ironically, I'm not normal myself. So my reaction was very confusing. I realised in the days and weeks later that a large part of it was understand the pain my friend was about to go through. I once had an endricynologist tell me that being diagnosed as transsexual is a tragic diagnosis. It always stuck with me. I just didn't want my friend to have to go through any of that, and desperately wanted it to be something else.

I don't believe being trans is wrong. I don't believe being gay is wrong. But it hurts to hear a young person admit it for the first time, and I imagine this film you were watching may have had echoes with that and the possibilities for your family and children. I certainly have some of the same feelings when it's someone I know.

Even just with homosexuality .... I can understand that, whilst having nothing against it, you might wish your child to be one of the majority. I honestly imagine that very few people, even gay people, would ever want a child to have to go through something that makes their lives more complex and sometimes that's even just being exposed to some of the complexity and hurdles that life brings later.

Originally posted by Thescripter
What's to stop a weirdo perv male to just walk into a woman's bathroom and if confronted say he identifies as a woman.

Hi scripter.

If you live in the US, it is perfectly legal to handle a person based on their birth certificate gender. Even if a person does identify as a woman they're still bound by that certificate.

Further to this, if a male to female transsexual is serious they should be taking the appropriate pills and hormones which amounts to a form of chemical castration for lack of a better term. If they're predisposed to being a pervert it might not change that but the urges would be significantly less.

Basically, I think it comes down to two things:

1. A non-trans person pretending to be trans to get access to a women's toilet is going to be rather easy to spot running down the street. I don't think any intelligent criminal would attempt this?
2. Heterosexual and trans statistics are similar in a lot of ways. It is possible a trans person could be a 'pervert', but it's not any more or less likely in most cases I've seen.

And I think it's ordinary to have these thoughts. Especially when thinking of protecting our friends, family, and children.

Originally posted by Pinke
Even just with homosexuality .... I can understand that, whilst having nothing against it, you might wish your child to be one of the majority. I honestly imagine that very few people, even gay people, would ever want a child to have to go through something that makes their lives more complex and sometimes that's even just being exposed to some of the complexity and hurdles that life brings later.

I think this is a viscous circle. Society doesn't change unless people change. The only reason there is a perceived difference in opportunities and equality is because people refuse to move with it. The fear of the challenges a young person might experience are a direct result of the fear of the challenges a young person might experience

And it really isn't based in reality either. Other than the views of the right wing, what is there that prevents me as a gay person from doing anything I want? I now run a successful business, I'm relatively happy, I can have kids if I want, I can get married if I want, I only face challenges in society because of what others demand, not because of my sexual orientation.

I think people are looking at this the wrong way, they're challenging the wrong argument. And it's the same side the gay "community" (for want of a better term) has been fighting for.

It's the inequality people fear for their children, and that inequality will continue as long as parents refuse to acknowledge the inequality and continue to support it through silence or inaction.

If parents are truly scared about the inequality their children could face if they happen to prefer members of the same sex, they should be joining in and fighting the prejudice, not bowing to it and feeling powerless or confused about it.

reply to post by detachedindividual

If parents are truly scared about the inequality their children could face if they happen to prefer members of the same sex, they should be joining in and fighting the prejudice, not bowing to it and feeling powerless or confused about it.

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."
--- John Stuart Mill

Amen

reply to post by detachedindividual


Don't disagree with your comments at all detachedindividual, though my examples are more on the topic of the OP than the correct method to approach gay rights or change people.

Change might be the correct action, but fear is certainly the emotion for a lot of parents.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I found out im kinda of a hypocrite too... I dont mind homosexuality, not at all... But i do dislike homo celebration parades... I mean there is no need for people to throw their sexual direction in EVERYBODYS faces... I just dont get it, some people have sex with animals (i dont support that), but no parades there, some have "dominance sex" thats frauned upon too, yet i see no SM parades... I just really really dislike it, its okay to be gay, but tongue kissing in public infront of 100 people just to get a reaction, well its just pure bull#.
Gays and lesbos, Grow up. We accept you, its time you accept that some people dont accept your choices, having gay parades and TONGUE'ing out in public wont get you anymore support. quite the opposite actually...

You have been forced by society to think something is ok when you were programmed from birth by God to know instinctively that it is wrong. I personally do not give in to peer pressure. So my beliefs do not change to suit the current fads. You appear to be the other kind. The kind who accepts things to be fair and appear tolerant. Nothing is fair and that is not going to change and I merely tolerate those who I feel are immoral in so far as I do not actively seek them harm. Few have the intestinal fortitude needed to go against the tide in a manner that one knows will eventually overwhelm them and pass them by. You are not one of those people. Therefore you reacted normally to hearing the boy was a perv. Then your societal programming kicked in and you doubted your reaction. This is normal for people who deny obvious morality. As you flow with the outgoing tide, going deeper into your programmed depravity you will encounter this more and more.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
Have been reading this thread and I agree with others that have said putting a sexual reference, especially a gay sexual reference, was not appropriate in a childrens movie....it would have shocked me too.

LOL....I had to laugh though and reply to some saying a woman is needed to teach a girl about tampons.....I noticed one day my daughter had switched from pads to tampons, and I asked her "how did you learn how to use them"...lol....it was an ordeal when I learned......anyways, she looks at me and says......."I read the instructions in the box".......

MountainLaurel - that was awesome....

I was wondering why this thread was becoming tampon obsessed. No one taught me how to use a tampon. I too read the damned box! No parental coaching required.

I find it really funny that the boyfriend reference was in a children's movie. We almost saw that movie last night. Now I wish I had seen it before reading this post so as to see my own reaction. I am 99% sure we all would have laughed. Our house is very open to variety. Ken dresses up in prom gowns all the time.

What I think is a bigger issue is a lot of these so called "kids" movies have a whole lot of adult references in them that make me wonder who the hell is rating these movies these days? It's not so much the reference itself that gets me, and whether I am comfortable with my children seeing it, but that a movie rated for children should not have so many clearly adult references and humor in them. I had the same reaction to the movie Madagascar 3. That had all kinds of adult themes in it that my husband and I raised our eyebrows over. But then again Bambi and Fantasia and Dumbo have some pretty strong adult themes too so I suppose this is nothing new...

First an foremost....someone who has a personal preference to sleep with someone of the same sex is not natural.Second, everyone's personal sex choices should be kept private, not strewn all throughout media and internet...etc,does not matter if they are gay,straight,or whatever the case may be,it should be kept private from internet,and television for the same respect one has to be 21 to purchase nude magazines,pornography.etc.Sex subjects should be handled with more reserve and judgement than they are....but demoralization of people seems to be a new "sickness"(trend). I for one am offended by this demanding and forceful expectation to accept such lewd behavior and disrespectful display's of one's own personal sexuality.