Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Muslim Brotherhood Starts Crucifixions. Is The U.S. Headed For Sharia Law?

page: 2
29
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join

posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 09:47 PM
link   
I don't think the thing here is about Islam as much as its about Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in power. The country just went from a dictator who people threw out of power for a democracy that leads to this...

war never changes




posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 09:53 PM
link   
reply to post by paxnatus
 

What ever gave you the idea that I was not partaking in intelligent discussion? I am only repeating the things I have learned from well liked, and enlightened scholar's, such as Rush Limbaugh, Glenn beck, and other great leaders of gods chosen republican's.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:03 PM
link   
reply to post by buster2010
 


You do not meet with someone who is nailing human beings to trees, because they believe differently than you!!!!
What does Obama hope to accomplish? "Oh please don't nail anymore people to trees, America is just not down wit it" " Makin me look bad Bro"!!!

I cannot believe someone as intelligent as you could ask such a ridiculous question. Crucifixion??? Really??

A slow and excruciating death meant to disgrace and shame the person.....And this man should dine with the President of the United States?

edit on 8/17/2012 by paxnatus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by paxnatus

They are claiming, that Obama not only knows but condones what Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood are doing.
By the shear fact that he has not come out and condemned Morsi for his actions. Remember to not do something means you have done something.

I am stunned! I mean I don't like Obama at all strictly for his policies and the way he has belittled and put down the USA. Now, if this invitation still stands, We do not have to worry about Obama or Romney, we will have much more important things on our plate.

Is Obama planning to attempt to bring Sharia law here? Yeah, I know what you are thinking, but please someone with a strong understanding of Mid East unrest help me sort this out. I simply cannot understand why we would
befriend a barbarian like Morsi.

Help me uncover some truth here, please?
Thanks Kindly
Pax


First off, I have to complement you on closing out your post the way did...with the open and honest plea for someone who has a really strong understanding of the Middle East to clear things up for you. I have a Master's in History and until I got to that last paragraph or two I thought I was going to have aneurysm.

As you may have guessed, the Middle East is massively complex, so here are just a few bullet points to clear up some all too common misconceptions about the current situation(s) in the region that you had in your post.

1. Morsi was democratically elected by a majority of Egyptian voters in an election which had far greater scrutiny and controls against election fraud than any election in the last 226 years in the U.S....mostly due to the international attention it was getting.

2. Our CIA was supporting the pro-military and former Egyptian general Ahmed Shafik. Less than 48 hours before the polls opened in Egypt, a real coup d'etat by the Egyptian military stating that they had arbitrarily dissolved the newly elected Egyptian Parliament once it became apparent that the CIA's candidate, Shafik, was going to lose the election.

3. You are correct that a true believer in a literal interpretation of the Qu'ran believes that crucifixion is a possible punishment for heresy. However...before we pass judgement we should recall that a true believer in a literal interpretation of The Holy Bible believes that we should execute people for pre-marital sex and mowing the lawn on Saturday, amongst other things. (see: immorality before marriage but detected afterwards, Deut. 22:13-21; Sabbath breaking, Ex. 31:14; 35:2; Num. 15:32-36.) Bear in mind, the modus operandi for the death penalty at the time this was written was either crucifixion or stoning to death. The lesson here? Pretty much anybody who thinks that we should be taking the words of nomadic desert people from thousands of years ago both seriously and literally should probably be checked into a nuthouse as soon as possible.

4. Irrespective of what sort of exceedingly harsh punishments that Mosaic law demands for things like yard work, it also clearly states that all governments derive their power to govern and rule by God himself...thus even questioning anybody's government is, in and of itself, an act of heresy... which is also punishable by death. (See "Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God." Romans 13:1)

5. Just because Obama is meeting with Morsi doesn't necessarily mean they are "buddies". Kruschev was at the White House both before and after the Cuban Missile Crisis. Was Eisenhower "buddies" with the Russians? Was Kennedy? Christ...we almost had full-blown, unrestrained nuclear war with them. Sometimes meeting with one's enemies is a good thing as it fosters communication, negotiation and diplomacy.

6. The original article you cited came off of a religious "news" site, WND Faith. See numbers 3 & 4 for why we shouldn't be looking to Bible-Believers to advise us on matters of law, foreign policy, or reason.

7. The WND Faith site draws it's conclusions from a "report" generated by a think tank deceptively called the "Center for Security Policy"...which incidentally is largely funded by defense contractors who have a monetary interest in promoting fear and mistrust between Americans and the M.East.

8. On Aug. 3rd, 2007 the "Center for Security Policy" also openly advocated declaring George W. Bush emperor for life and wiping out the Arabic people via an organized genocidal campaign to mirror Rome's treatment of the Gauls when they said "If President Bush copied Julius Caesar by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans, he would achieve immediate results: popularity with his military; enrichment of America by converting an Arabian Iraq into an American Iraq (therefore turning it from a liability to an asset); and boost American prestige while terrifying American enemies."

Does this help at all?

edit on 17-8-2012 by milominderbinder because: formatting



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:48 PM
link   
reply to post by paxnatus
 


Ok I will bite. There is VERY little evidence that any "Crucifixion" ever even took place. I find as the first sources, such fine examples of journalistic integrity as.. Nowtheendbegins, Stromfront, WND, Bibleprophecytracker, Jihadwatch, freerepublic, raptureintheairnow, arewelivinginthelastdays, and more. Should I continue? You would be scared of your own fart, if I was on radio or TV and told you to be. Grow up! Egypt is NOT your counrty. It does NOT have the same laws and rules as other countries. Stay out of others !@#$%^. Conservatives love to preach it, but never do it. STAY OUT.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nomadmonkey
reply to post by paxnatus
 


Ok I will bite. There is VERY little evidence that any "Crucifixion" ever even took place. I find as the first sources, such fine examples of journalistic integrity as.. Nowtheendbegins, Stromfront, WND, Bibleprophecytracker, Jihadwatch, freerepublic, raptureintheairnow, arewelivinginthelastdays, and more. Should I continue? You would be scared of your own fart, if I was on radio or TV and told you to be. Grow up! Egypt is NOT your counrty. It does NOT have the same laws and rules as other countries. Stay out of others !@#$%^. Conservatives love to preach it, but never do it. STAY OUT.


I traced the origins of the alleged crucifixions back to being started by a "think-tank" which receives it's funding from defense contractors. See my post above for details on all the reasons why we shouldn't really be taking these reports very seriously at all.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:54 PM
link   
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Thank you. I am sick of these types of stories getting play. People gloss right over the facts and jump into support of one side or the other. I knew from the start this was just an attack on Obama. Keep on fighting for the truth my friend.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nomadmonkey
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Thank you. I am sick of these types of stories getting play. People gloss right over the facts and jump into support of one side or the other. I knew from the start this was just an attack on Obama. Keep on fighting for the truth my friend.


Yep. And it should be noted that I am in no way a supporter of Obama these days...mostly due to the continued erosion of civil liberties in this country.

However...that being said...all this repeated nonsense about Obama being a "communist" or trying to implement "Sharia law" is just plain nauseating and it undermines intelligent critique of his real policies.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:05 PM
link   
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Thank you for a well thought out intelligent post, and yes it does shed some light. However, as a Christian I can tell you that you were siting scripture from the Old Testament and The Old law. When Jesus came He did not come to abolish the law He came to fulfill it. The Jews hold true to the Old Testament the Christians do not dismiss the Old Testament we believe when Jesus died for us meaning all of mankind, He ultimately paid our debt so we would not be bound to the laws of the Old Testament. That means none of us. I do not want to turn this into a religious debate, but although I could see the parallels between the Quran and the Old Testament, No where could I find the redemption in the Quran as in the New Testament.

I do not believe you have tea or whatever with a man whom nails people to trees! I understand the Mid East conflict is very complex but I do not understand the point in reaching out to such a brutal enemy after he is saying he is playing you.

If I were to follow my Christian teaching then I would be the first to extend the Olive Branch. But I am not Christ, I am only human and my nature struggles a great deal with this. I do pray for this country and its leadership but if you were to ask me to pray for my enemies I would have a hard time with that.

So are you defending Morsi and what he is doing? I wasn't clear on that.

Thank you for your time,
Pax



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Nomadmonkey
 


Really?
Republocrats and Demopublicans are two sides of the same coin and have nothing to do with this thread



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nomadmonkey
reply to post by paxnatus
 


Ok I will bite. There is VERY little evidence that any "Crucifixion" ever even took place. I find as the first sources, such fine examples of journalistic integrity as.. Nowtheendbegins, Stromfront, WND, Bibleprophecytracker, Jihadwatch, freerepublic, raptureintheairnow, arewelivinginthelastdays, and more. Should I continue? You would be scared of your own fart, if I was on radio or TV and told you to be. Grow up! Egypt is NOT your counrty. It does NOT have the same laws and rules as other countries. Stay out of others !@#$%^. Conservatives love to preach it, but never do it. STAY OUT.


Excuse me, I will not stay out of it! Why? Because I care about people suffering and hurting and living with such atrocities. I don't care which side they are on! I have a great deal of compassion for mankind in general.

I get it, until it is in your back yard, it does not matter. It is not effecting you so you just deny it is happening!
Perhaps you should grow up and learn to put others before yourself. Try it, you may like it!



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:25 PM
link   
reply to post by paxnatus
 
Thank you for pointing out that Christians believe that a new covenant with Jesus Christ was made with man and that following the old testament laws does not apply. Jesus shows us how to live our lives in the new testament.

On the middle east, I believe that none of us know what's really going on over there. Look at Syria, there's discrepancies about who is killing whom and how many "out of towners" are over there making bloodshed. I do believe that the US is, and has been involved in creating chaos during the whole "Arab Spring".

I think that it boils down to a worldwide financial crises that the west cannot avoid so they need a WW111 to distract? (I use that term sarcastically) the masses.

I believe Obama is a communist, but a puppet communist, at that. The man can't even speak without a teleprompter in front of him.

I fear for all the people in the world at the moment. Who knows the truth? I believe that communists in charge in the US are doing everything they can to create a race war of some sort.

Illegal immigrants, Islamaist, Blacks, whites, rich, poor.....communist vs. constitutionalists.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:28 PM
link   
reply to post by buster2010
 


Dude, do you even know who Mr. Barry Obama is or who supports him? You stated that the constitution will protect us from Sharia Law, yet our own president speaks against our constitution. He has even spoken out against congress. Do you remember all the promises he made, but didn't keep one. If he lied about those things, don't you think he has a secret agenda. Read this www.wnd.com...



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Thank you for a well thought out intelligent post, and yes it does shed some light. However, as a Christian I can tell you that you were siting scripture from the Old Testament and The Old law. When Jesus came He did not come to abolish the law He came to fulfill it. The Jews hold true to the Old Testament the Christians do not dismiss the Old Testament we believe when Jesus died for us meaning all of mankind, He ultimately paid our debt so we would not be bound to the laws of the Old Testament. That means none of us. I do not want to turn this into a religious debate, but although I could see the parallels between the Quran and the Old Testament, No where could I find the redemption in the Quran as in the New Testament.

I do not believe you have tea or whatever with a man whom nails people to trees! I understand the Mid East conflict is very complex but I do not understand the point in reaching out to such a brutal enemy after he is saying he is playing you.

If I were to follow my Christian teaching then I would be the first to extend the Olive Branch. But I am not Christ, I am only human and my nature struggles a great deal with this. I do pray for this country and its leadership but if you were to ask me to pray for my enemies I would have a hard time with that.

So are you defending Morsi and what he is doing? I wasn't clear on that.

Thank you for your time,
Pax



As a Christian you should read the Bible Again. The book of Romans is in the New Testament and I clearly identified that the other punishments were from Mosaic law. Notwithstanding...I didn't criticize Christians at all. Only people who believe in a literal interpretation in the often mistranslated oral traditions of desert nomads who were mostly illiterate and did not understand the mechanics of something as simple as rainfall. As far as I am aware, there is no sect of Christianity in existence which denies the validity of the Old Testament.

Similarly...just because YOU might believe it's wise to extend the olive branch first...that doesn't mean that OTHER christians ALSO believe that way. Thus, condemning a democratically elected official for the alleged actions of a few religious nuts. Remember...if this same rule were applied to America then Harry Truman would have been "guilty" of the last documented "christian" KKK lynching in 1947. In fact, history tells us quite the opposite stance from the government. Did you know that Albert Einstein was put on a communist watch list by the FBI for joining Paul Robeson's organization called the "American Crusade Against Lynching"? Yep. Our government actually thought the one's who were against religiously-fueled mob "justice" were the "dangerous" ones.

As for Morsi...no...I'm not "defending" him. I'm accurately pointing out that to date 100% percent of these reports of "crucifixions" can be traced back to a thinly veiled lobbying group funded by the people who make bombs for the military and thus have a very vested interest in scaring the public into still MORE wars in the Middle East as well as keeping their buddies over at CIA happy since their puppet candidate lost the Egyptian election.

Given that this same think tank ALSO advocates a fundamental destruction of the US Government in favor of bloodline monarchy and the systematic murder of approximately 400 million innocent civilians (Remember...Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot COMBINED only killed about 50 million) for the purposes of political and monetary gain...I am stating quite accurately that there is ZERO scholarly/credible evidence to suggest that anybody has been crucified in Egypt at all. At this point, it's all hearsay...and from extremely biased parties at that.

Shouldn't we have at least some evidence of any of this actually occurring before we get all worked up over it? If you read an article written by Al-Jezeera that had only a single reference to a research division of the Iranian military that said that Lutherans were burning witches in Minnesota...would you believe straight away without asking any other questions?

Then why would you take this story at face value?
edit on 17-8-2012 by milominderbinder because: formatting



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:43 PM
link   
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


He's most likely referring to Peter's Vision, which knocks out most the rules in Leviticus. Not the 10 Commandments.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Thank you for a well thought out intelligent post, and yes it does shed some light. However, as a Christian I can tell you that you were siting scripture from the Old Testament and The Old law. When Jesus came He did not come to abolish the law He came to fulfill it. The Jews hold true to the Old Testament the Christians do not dismiss the Old Testament we believe when Jesus died for us meaning all of mankind, He ultimately paid our debt so we would not be bound to the laws of the Old Testament. That means none of us. I do not want to turn this into a religious debate, but although I could see the parallels between the Quran and the Old Testament, No where could I find the redemption in the Quran as in the New Testament.

I do not believe you have tea or whatever with a man whom nails people to trees! I understand the Mid East conflict is very complex but I do not understand the point in reaching out to such a brutal enemy after he is saying he is playing you.

If I were to follow my Christian teaching then I would be the first to extend the Olive Branch. But I am not Christ, I am only human and my nature struggles a great deal with this. I do pray for this country and its leadership but if you were to ask me to pray for my enemies I would have a hard time with that.

So are you defending Morsi and what he is doing? I wasn't clear on that.

Thank you for your time,
Pax



Oh...one more thing about olive branches, albeit a bit off topic. If you want to find out why Israeli's are so hated in the Middle East read the book entitled "The Gun & The Olive Branch" by David Hirst. Spoiler Alert: You'll never guess which one the Israeli's picked.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jodlum66
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


He's most likely referring to Peter's Vision, which knocks out most the rules in Leviticus. Not the 10 Commandments.



True...but certainly not the one about questioning one's government being tantamount to heresy....which was punished by death under Old and New Testament alike.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:56 PM
link   
You are right, Yeshua( I love that name so I use it instead of Jesus) tells us clearly not to go against the govt. Here is something relevant to this.

Matthew 12:48-59 (ERV)

All of you must obey the government rulers. Every person who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all the people that rule now were given that power by God. So the person that is against the government is really against something God has commanded. People that are against the government cause themselves to be punished. People that do right don't have to fear the rulers. But those people that do wrong must fear the rulers. Do you want to be free from fearing the rulers? Then you should do right. If you do right, then the rulers will praise you. A ruler is God's servant to help you. But if you do wrong, then be afraid. The ruler has the power to punish, and he will use that power. He is God's servant to punish people that do wrong. So you must obey the government. You should obey because you might be punished if you don't obey. And you should also obey because you know that is the right thing to do. And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God and give all their time to the work of ruling. Give all people what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to the people you should respect. And show honor to the people you should honor.

-- This explains it pretty well, plus this. (I didn't write any of this) I copied and pasted
When leaders do what God has gifted them to do and when they teach the truth, we should obey it. Jesus demanded that we respect those in places of authority. Jesus also demanded that his disciples (that is, us!) obey God's truth. The truth is not dependent upon a worthy life-style in the person proclaiming it. So if a person of authority teaches the truth, we are to do it. Just because that person is a hypocrite does not give us the option of ignoring God's truth!
These two principles are key to putting Jesus' scathing words that follow in their proper place. After his opening words here, Jesus is not talking to us about our responsibility to our leaders in Matthew 23. Instead, Jesus is addressing the leaders and telling them what their responsibility is and pronouncing judgment on them for being hypocrites. We are not to follow their example, but we are to practice the truth they speak.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 02:10 AM
link   
reply to post by Jodlum66
 


Nice find my friend! This story deserves a thread of its own! So what do you think? Is the Muslim Brotherhood part of his plan? Would like to hear your take.

Thank you,
Pax



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 02:18 AM
link   
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


I thought I was clear in saying Jesus did not come to abolish the law, He came to fulfill it!!! I never denied the validity
of the Old Testament. Yes I am well aware Romans is in the New Testament.

Show me your links please to what you are claiming about contractors. How do you know these crucifixions are not taking place. Just because you do not like the source does not imply the article to be false.

The burden of proof is in your court friend.





new topics

top topics



 
29
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join