Poll shows atheism on the rise in the U.S.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by SeventhSin

 

See the end of my thread posted in my signature.

I've had a taste of it, of this absolute liberation, and it's of another order of magnitude than any of us have previously realized. I would call it a hyper-freedom capable of causing you to run around, laughing, crying, and laughing some more while exclaiming OMG what do I DO NOW?!

We don't know what real freedom is, or what kind of freedom is really intended for us by the God of love.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis:

The fact is free will means we can travel through time and space at our will, of which, we can't. If you really think about it we can do exactly the same things we could on earth before the so-called Son of God came with the whole free will hook for this group think concept. If anything, we have free will to suffer ad infinitem until we die them we get to find out that everything was a man made scam and the true penalty for humans was following blindly the workings of evil men that would enslave their society with lies of a deity and his father.

"Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. We will one day understand what causes it and then cease to call it divine. And so it is with everything in the universe." - Hippocrates

I've said in the past that Science isn't against religion, but this quote changes my mind. Where religion will believe without proof, science finds that proof and then gives us something to believe in. I have no doubt that as our understanding of the universe grows, religion will become less and less important because we'll be able to explain those things that people currently need God for. If there was a God, I think he'd want it that way because man would then become the God.

How should a religious and awake person trust washingtompost ?

Specially when they talk about their concern about atheism.

That won't get many people to think about it.

Maybe pope was a better figure to express his concern.

Those newspapers just care about their profit.

This will not help you much.

One example of politicians kidnapping religion is Bush who said "god told me to attack Iraq".

The blood is still on their hands.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
One of the things about being an atheist is that you do NOT have to worry about the afterlife AT ALL. Once you accept that you are simply gone when you are dead all stuff ...

And if you're wrong?

Then I'm wrong.

What if the truth of the matter is that we are already stuck in eternity without escape such that there is and can be nothing that is not? What if materialist monism (where matter alone is primary and consiousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter) is false, and a monistic idealism (consciousness is the ground of all being and becoming and matter, a manifestation of consciousness in a downward causation from a first/last cause) the only way that all the quantum paradoxes can be satisfactorily resolved, what then? If that were the case, you could believe all you want that you're "wormfood" and that life is meaningless and insigificant, but it won't help you when you find your consciousness still existing after your present body has succumbed (see all the NDE experiences for more).

Cool - that would be most interesting.

Originally posted by ParacelsusPontifex
New here, Just posted on the Introduction Forum.........................................

Anyway..............................

1) Has it ever ocurred to anybody that maybe folks are rejecting not God but what they THINK God IS? (I.e. God is the God of the OLD TESTAMENT.................Literally. NOT God of Love but God of Judgement).

2) CAN one REALLY believe in NOTHING??????????

3) Is NOTHING really better than SOMETHING??????????????????

Just wondering..........................................Sigh................................Ultimately, I and many others do n ot have enough Faith to be Atheist. Yep.

I think some of us want to believe in "NOTHING" because we wouldn't have to give our alllegiance to "SOMETHING."
So much simpler I reckon! But then again, that substantiates that we MUST believe in "SOMETHING" since we believe in "NOTHING." Ah forget it! Not so simple afterall!

this is why I embrace death as a friend and an ultimate equalizer.

All these atheists who think they know, are in for a big surprise after leaving here. (Just seeking cause I was privy to a sneak peak of what comes after here)

This coming from an ex-atheist. I had to give up atheism when I remembered pre-existing, which lead to the question of who made that pre-existant consciousness and what is its source.

Life is cool and all, but death destroys and puts an end to all religion and all atheism, and then in the afterlife we all find out who was right.

Personally I've gotten to state where I dislike any stance that anyone takes. Ur an Atheist huh? Guess what ur wrong.

Ur a Buddhist huh? Guess what ur wrong.

Your a Christian? Evangelical? Baptist? Catholic? Guess what your wrong.

Bring on the Atheism. Then we will see SUPER loss of all morals, ethics, and mass chaos.

reply to post by dominicus

Life is cool and all, but death destroys and puts an end to all religion and all atheism, and then in the afterlife we all find out who was right.

Maybe not???

Originally posted by flice

Because sometimes the only way to win a debate against psychos (which is my fitting description of people who stupidly believe the various fairytales of religion to be true) is to remove yourself from your higher post and drag yourself down to the same level.

This is rubbish. If you fancying yourself as being the rational side should never go down to their level or better yet have the common sense to not waste your time bickering with a psycho.

Originally posted by fliceReligion is THE biggest reason for hardship in this world.

I would say the negative characteristics our species possess are the cause for the biggest suffering in the world. The people who think simple removing religion will somehow usher in a new age of enlightenment are deluding themselves.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Assuming for the moment that the poll is accurate, what could be behind such a rapid and sharp change? Some suggest that the "New Atheism" movement has been particularly successful.

Divine intervention? Sorry I had to

Maybe more people are having doubts.

Doubt is integral to an intelligent mind.

Or maybe more people consider themselves "spiritual but not religious" (I hear this one a lot).

That phrase often bugs me too. Still, it's quite fair. You can be spiritual and not religious. For instance you can believe in God and not dogma (aka know the mind of God). You can believe in some interconnectedness within the physical Universe and not believe in dogma. Both atheism and spirituality without the dogma are much more reasonable than believing the Bible represents the will of God.

Perhaps organized religion is getting a bad name while people still believe.

Could be yeah. But on that front some members of the religion could say they are religious but are actually atheists.

And because by now you know which side I am on...



To really answer your question. I think the answer is simply that we now culturally cherish scientific methodology, and that values evidence over faith. For better or for worse I suppose. Considering some of the grave consequences that are manifesting from these religious beliefs, I think it's great they are being doubted.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Yeah, a lot of atheists can be annoying, confrontational and bullish.

just like anyone else.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

So the best option is to completely go by the Scientific Method in Life?

A scientific method which does not look for God, does not know what Love is, what Good Art is, what a genuine person is, and lacks Love and emotion?

Some cold scientific unit of measurement is now the final say???

Screw that...... if that's the case I'm out......

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

So the best option is to completely go by the Scientific Method in Life?

there is no "scientific method in life"

the scientific method is a tool for determining what is most likely to be true about any given phenomena, within the limits of observation & measurement available at the time.

Once you have that information you can then "live it" any way you like.

Screw that...... if that's the case I'm out......

And yet here you are, writing on a computer that was built as a result of "the scientific method", using electricity generated as a result of "the scientific method", and I bet you live in a house that is full of all sorts of things that have resulted from "the scientific method", fly occasionally, travel by car, train, bus or even bicycle occasionally, make toast, use a microwave oven, have clean water on tap??

The scientific method has not told you to live like this - it has given you the opportunity to live like this - and you have decided, to some degree both consciously and unconsciously, to accept the opportunity.

reply to post by dominicus

So the best option is to completely go by the Scientific Method in Life?

A better option than believing you already have all the answers is believing you don't.

A scientific method which does not look for God, does not know what Love is, what Good Art is, what a genuine person is, and lacks Love and emotion?

I assume these attributes are to be extended to the atheist and other non-Christian belief systems. They lack morals, love, emotion (rolls eyes)....

Sorry if your religion fills your mind with that kind of understanding, then yes, something other than that would be a better option.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

there is no "scientific method in life"

exactly, and yet you take that scientific method to be end all be all...... if it's not testable via "scientific method" then it's not true. scientific method is limited to the confines of the limited understandings of men, the current, but limited knowledge base of mankind, and the limited instruments with which you take measurements.

And yet here you are, writing on a computer that was built as a result of "the scientific method"

Everything already IS. We are not discovering anything new in science, but finding out new things about what has always been. It's the same with God, which all cultures say has always been, but is yet to be discovered by science, who doesn't look for God and has a bias against finding God. Self fulfilling ideological trap.

The possibility to create computers existed 1000 years ago, but we were too stupid to figure it out then, just like Atheism could be an experiment in being to stupid to figure out God

The scientific method has not told you to live like this - it has given you the opportunity to live like this - and you have decided, to some degree both consciously and unconsciously, to accept the opportunity.

its a tool of measurement that certain educational systems use to find out about things which already are. Cool beans, you want a trophy now?

Every breath I take is fascinating, every second of existence containing the whole yet expanding is fascinating, the possibility of the existence of God is fascinating, those who get to experience God call that experience fascinating.

Still at the end of the day scientific method is flawed. I've been saying it for close to a decade and now others are following suit. The method itself is invented and relies on a set of rules and principles that are constructed based on the limited understanding of mankind. For example something is not true within the scientific confines of the scientific method, unless they are repeatable results.

And yet we are finding within the quantum physics studies, that some realities and results may never be repeatable.

Uh oh. So no we enter experiments who's results will always be different and never be repeatable (i.e. anomalies) and yet all of our knowledge is based on set of principles which have to result in repeatable results.

Looks like we have to rewrite everything all over again.

This is life and reality. 1 day, any day, a single finding can completely demolish and uproot everything we thought we knew. In such instance, at least Agnosticism is a safer bet, and Atheism as an absolute falls by the way side.

All these decades writing off anomalies, when they are also need to be studied.

What else ya got?

reply to post by dominicus

In such instance, at least Agnosticism is a safer bet, and Atheism as an absolute falls by the way side.

Atheists can be agnostic.

Lacking the belief in god because there is not sufficient evidence. That's holding the atheist position through agnostic methodology.

So you should hate on both

Religion and God are two different things. In fact, very often, religion is the thing in your way when you go looking for God.

Let's not throw the Creator out with the baptismal waters. We're going to need a little bit of God to get through the next few decades.

thevicarslamp.blogspot.com...

My family has always been very religious/spiritual in God, and just recently my second cousin, Jerry DeWitt (you may have heard of him), "came out" as an Atheist and abandoned the two churches he was a pastor of in this town. My family is devastated by his shift. He showed up to the town's biggest church about a month ago with a news reporter demanding a debate with the pastor there.

religion.blogs.cnn.com...
recoveringfromreligion.org...

My family keeps referring to this scripture and believe we are approaching The End Times.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4

This, combined with many different other 'strange occurrences' of late led me to devote my life to God and everything good. I was like a lot of other people before as well, rejecting the belief because of how Christians had always treated me my whole life. But now it all came into perspective, evil spirits are able to enter into a holy place and spread negative energy & hate, causing people to turn away from the faith with psychic brainwashing.

I'm glad I was saved in time. Feel really bad for those who keep traveling down the left hand path.


My cousin's twitter:

twitter.com...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Atheists can be agnostic. Lacking the belief in god because there is not sufficient evidence. That's holding the atheist position through agnostic methodology. So you should hate on both

I dont hate on both ...... I used to be both and found out that it was not sufficient to hold these views.

Atheism does absolutely nothing in the long run. Completely neutral and pointless, its just the anti-religion, and so just like religion, is also capable of producing mass killing monsters and movements of chaos and militancy.

I left Atheism/Agnosticism because in the long run, I saw that to take these views results in pure random chaos.

There ends up being no point to anything. Were no different than bugs, than squirels, cats/dogs. In that case its survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, all rules, morals, ethics out the window. Now there are no rules, no morals, no ethics ......if their are then they are relative... they are created out of chemical reactions and brain neurons randomly firing and truing to find an answer.

And so if thats the case, I should be sleeping around left and right, getting women pregnant and leaving them to deal with raising the child and the Gov't has no right in taking any alimony from my paychecks. I then have the right to beat up those who anger me, rob banks, and act on every animal instinct.

I use to be athiest, but then I learned something, it's silly to think there's no afterlife..I mean who created everything? A big bang...okay and what started this "big bang"? oh whats that it just happened to of happened?! You dont have to believe in religion to believe in God, but to deny there is an higher being is just silly.

Originally posted by SolarIce
I You dont have to believe in religion to believe in God, but to deny there is an higher being is just silly.

You ever read any part of the bible?

Now, if you believe what you read in that book, you may need to research the meaning of silly.