Iran vs. USA in one picture

Originally posted by kisharninmah
Why don't you list the reasons for each of those? 1986 was during the reign of Ferdinand Marcos, dictator that sent his people into rampant poverty. Iranians can't even get on a forum like this and do what you are doing now.

Isolationism wouldn't be good either and if Americans didn't do anything, these countries would still hate Americans for not doing anything. That aside, as a human being, should we let other human beings suffer under a dictator who cares nothing for his people?

World War II was the turning point for the United States because of Hitler! After that, the U.S. could not, from a moral standpoint, stay isolated. We're not a perfect country, we have bad people here too, but the entire Government is not filled with people wanting to just go to war.

And you do have freedoms. We can speak out against our Government. And don't post articles saying no we can't because those articles EXIST proving that you can. In Iran, you can't speak out against your Government because if you did, you would be sent to jail or killed. There is TRUE censorship in that country as well.

I have friends from there, who have lived there and visits there now, and who have family there. I've been told horrific things and their internet is highly censored. And don't lie and say you live there now and posting from there now because that is complete bull#.

If you're an American and don't like your own country, then don't live here. Go live in Iran. Laws are needed. They are. And those countries where law is TRULY corrupted, like IRAN, you can see how well that turns out for the people of that country. Now someone is going to google more stuff so they can argue about how bad the U.S. is but never once reflect on the fact that they have the freedom to do so.

***APPLAUSE******

US is not perfect, but at least it cares, along with the rest of the Free world, enough to act and often gets nothing but brickbats in return when humankind communities worldwide suffers under their own leadership tyrannies.

Originally posted by Buffalo Soldier
Brilliant thread, finally something that clearly shows that Iran is not the aggressor. The aggressors is the West and Israel.

Horrible thread. Honestly something that clearly paints Iran ignorantly as not an aggressor. The aggressors are all involved parties, The West, East, Israel AND Iran.

Originally posted by binkman

Stop with the historical revisionism. You know damn well that it wasn't just Irish Americans funding the IRA, it was all corners of your putrid little society.

So, once again, it was US Americans funding and arming the IRA, and it was the US government allowing this to happen.

So who exactly was it that was funding the IRA? Nobody ever asked me, "hey, can you spare a few dollars for the IRA?" and I'll wager that if I ask 100 random people I'll get 100 responses of "what the heck are you talking about"?

You're hiding some critical detail in your rants, here. What is it?

I know US Americans are stupid, but you are pushing the boundaries. You're telling me, that it would have been impossible for your advanced security services to enter any Irish Bar, find the tin marked "NORAID" and confiscate it? You're telling me that even though your security services regularly held coups and deposed elected leaders, they would have been unable to follow the money trail?

DING DING DING BS ARTIST ALERT!!! First you said it was "all US Americans" contributing to the IRA and NOW you're acknowledging these NORAID collection sites would have been in Irish bars. Noraid is an organization formed by Irish descendents! Why wouldn't I find the NORAID collection centers in other places like Jewish delis or Mexican restaurants? That is what you were claiming, after all, wasn't it?...and which Irish bars do they have these collection centers, exactly? I've been to a LOT of Irish bars (I like the live Irish music they have there) and I've never seen any such thing.

Admit it; you're just making up this whole rant off the top of your head, aren't you?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
We may have dirty laundry, but yours is unwashable. No country in 200 years has done as much as you to cause suffering to millions. Your country has done more to advance the causes of genocidal dictatorship than any other.

At first I thought you might have had a legitimate point that I would have to dig deeper to discover, but after reading this drivel I see you're just posting uninformed hater drivel off the top of your head. I will say again that the US has its share of less than finest moments, but your imagining how bad the US is while glossing over the real world suffering from the genocides of other countries like Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and Kampuchea is just dumb as a brick ignorant. Tell me, why is it that these descendents of Irish immigants even have a beef against you Brits, again?

It's one thing to build dream worlds in the clouds...it's another thing to actually try to live in them.

As for your little addendum about yanks, I'll call you what I damn well want to, mos of which would be against the T&Cs of this website. Your pathetic, tiny, stupid little history means nothing to me, you are all damn yanks

I will pay any amoung of money you want to see you go to the back woods of the deep south and call someone a damned Yank. I've met quite a number of people from across the pond and something tells me you're not too popular among your fellow Brits, either.

I know that personal attacks are a TOS violation, but DAMN, man, you really have issues.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Buffalo Soldier
Brilliant thread, finally something that clearly shows that Iran is not the aggressor. The aggressors is the West and Israel.

Horrible thread. Honestly something that clearly paints Iran ignorantly as not an aggressor. The aggressors are all involved parties, The West, East, Israel AND Iran.

That is your opinion Slayer and nothing more.

Recent history and current events clearly prove Iran as a non aggressor, there is no proof to the contrary.

reply to post by binkman


Mate, I haven't funded anybody. I never said a word about the terrorist groups funded by the US. I know history. I know what happened in South and Central America with the CIA and so on. Just to clear something up, I am not an American and I never said a word about what's on the US's side of the graphic in the OP.

As for the answer to my trivia, bzzzzzzz, wrong, Try again. Hint, google Wakilabad.

As for the second answer, I am not good at financing anyone. Tehran on the other hand is another story.

But that's ok, you're entitled to believe what you want, even if facts say your wrong.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

***APPLAUSE******

US is not perfect, but at least it cares, along with the rest of the Free world, enough to act and often gets nothing but brickbats in return when humankind communities worldwide suffers under their own leadership tyrannies.

Just like we did in Rwanda in 1994, right?

No oil in Rwanda, I guess. Or anything else besides just PEOPLE.

Originally posted by binkman

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Go over to the "peace loving" country of Iran and yell out I HATE ISLAM in public, and see what happens to you.

Once again, I just want to make sure we are thinking along the same lines, when you say go over to the "peace loving" country of Iran, and yell out "I HATE ISLAM" for the response, do you think the response would be similar to say, going to the "peace loving", heavily Christian state of Alabama and yelling "I HATE JESUS"?

No, because there's a difference between citizens getting angry at you over what you say, and the gov't getting angry at you over what you say.

From Amnesty International: Iran shows surge in repression of dissent

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Ignorance is bliss.....

Many here can openly admit that not everything the US has done has been honorable, moral, ethical or right. Put your money where your mouth is and admit to something Iran has done [just one instance will suffice] that they have done dishonorable, immoral, unethical or wrong.

Then you'll have some real credibility in discussions such as this.

Until then.

Meh....

Criticisms of the US are common because of their actions.

Yet can't the same criticisms be made because of inactions?

Americans may have been wrong in DOING something, but they were DOING something. Even if it turned out wrong, they tried to do what they thought was right.

A countries inactions can sometimes speak just as loudly. Sometimes a country can do as much, or even more damage by doing nothing.

Originally posted by kyoiism
it saddens me that the USA get's so much heat for preserving world peace.
it's been the USA job as world police since WW2 and no one likes the police right? I'd like to think all the wars we have fought have been justifiable and not just to be bullies and tyrants.

edit on 9-8-2012 by kyoiism because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-8-2012 by kyoiism because: (no reason given)

Right, because each time America has gone to war, it's been to help out others, right? It's never been to secure their own interests like oil and money and power. Of course not, America is a sort of global superhero, spending all those billions of dollars caring for other countries and removing harsh regimes.

World Police my ass. Wake up.

Originally posted by beezzer
Criticisms of the US are common because of their actions.

No, criticisms of the US are common becuase we're a free country, and people are allowed to vent without repercussions. Why is it that ATS doesn't have any servers in Pyongyang, again?

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
Link these attacks! i mean actual military attacking and not just 1 or 2 people launching missles cause that don't count!

Doesn't count?

Why?

Because you say so?

Because those are the actions of an individual! that's why! If wars were always started because of the actions of individuals they would never end and then that is just incredibly redicules! Why don't we just nuke them because they shot some fire works off at someone? Should'nt the puishment fit the crime or should we persecute a whole country for the actions of a few according to you?

Pulling a trigger is the action of an individual, too. Won't make the recipient any less dead, nor is it any less an act of war, for all that. Here's an idea - if you don't want to suffer the wrath, police your individuals better.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

So who exactly was it that was funding the IRA? Nobody ever asked me, "hey, can you spare a few dollars for the IRA?" and I'll wager that if I ask 100 random people I'll get 100 responses of "what the heck are you talking about"?

You're hiding some critical detail in your rants, here. What is it?

US Citizens and companies. That's who.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
DING DING DING BS ARTIST ALERT!!! First you said it was "all US Americans" contributing to the IRA and NOW you're acknowledging these NORAID collection sites would have been in Irish bars. Noraid is an organization formed by Irish descendents! Why wouldn't I find the NORAID collection centers in other places like Jewish delis or Mexican restaurants? That is what you were claiming, after all, wasn't it?...and which Irish bars do they have these collection centers, exactly? I've been to a LOT of Irish bars (I like the live Irish music they have there) and I've never seen any such thing.

They were in Irish bars, and people from all walks of life in your, "society", would have dropped coins in it and funded the deaths of over 4000.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Admit it; you're just making up this whole rant off the top of your head, aren't you?

Nope, but thats a nice attempt at ignoring your history. I'd give it 10/10 for boldness, but execution and method probably sits at around 4/10.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

At first I thought you might have had a legitimate point that I would have to dig deeper to discover, but after reading this drivel I see you're just posting uninformed hater drivel off the top of your head. I will say again that the US has its share of less than finest moments, but your imagining how bad the US is while glossing over the real world suffering from the genocides of other countries like Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and Kampuchea is just dumb as a brick ignorant. Tell me, why is it that these descendents of Irish immigants even have a beef against you Brits, again?

Oh look, you're denying your history again. NORAID was the US funding wing of the IRA, and citizens from all parts of your "society" contributed to it. I don't give a damn about Germany, Russia or Kampuchea, I care about the fact that you armed and funded terror in my country.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
It's one thing to build dream worlds in the clouds...it's another thing to actually try to live in them.

You mean like the way US Americans claim their country has been a force for good?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I will pay any amoung of money you want to see you go to the back woods of the deep south and call someone a damned Yank. I've met quite a number of people from across the pond and something tells me you're not too popular among your fellow Brits, either.

Your currency is worthless in the civilised world. Like I said, you are all yanks, regardless of what happened in your cute little attempt to have a history worth speaking about.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I know that personal attacks are a TOS violation, but DAMN, man, you really have issues.

At least I'm not a US American or related to any US Americans.

double post

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Ignorance is bliss.....

Many here can openly admit that not everything the US has done has been honorable, moral, ethical or right. Put your money where your mouth is and admit to something Iran has done [just one instance will suffice] that they have done dishonorable, immoral, unethical or wrong.

Then you'll have some real credibility in discussions such as this.

Until then.

Meh....

Ignorance is bliss indeed and you have the audacity to speak about "credibility"

Iran is no Saint and I have said that on many occasions but that does not justify the Western meddling in that country since 1953 and even before. Part of the reason Iran is so screwed up is due to Western meddling, can you blame them for being an Islamic theocracy?

Iran has many domestic problems, as all countries do, but for you to compare Iran as an aggressor in the same category as the US or Israel is absolutely laughable and dismisses any credibility you may have had.

Sure, Iran may help provide weapons to it's neighboring allies to help fight the illegal foreign invaders. That is not aggression, these are rightful actions considering that the aggressors are the ones who are stealing land via countless wars. Iran has every right to protect it's regional interests as they actually are a member of the region.

What reason does the US have to be meddling in the region? The answer is NONE other than their imperialist agenda that they are achieving with the help of media manipulation, corporate bankers who fund these wars while they rob the tax payers/regular citizens, and the American Exceptionalism that is so rampant in the real world and on forums such as these.

Let's not forget the Iraq/Iran war who some of you still try and blame on Iran, which was clearly started by Iraq and backed by the United states.

Iran is not the hell hole you make it out to be, even though it has it's problems I believe they have done well with all the adversity they have faced over the last 7 decades.

You want to speak about credibility but we must put things into context first, which you clearly are not ready to do.

I can careless what you think about my "credibility".

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by ANOK

 

I can see there is no middle ground with you.

America is a brand new country- you guys have been fighting wars a lot longer than we have.

Egotistical- Not in the slightest.

Thumbs up my friend. There is no disputing this is there? But I'm quite sure that they will just counter with the old "America=Old Western European White Man".
The amount of anti-America b-s on here is staggering (along with the pro-Hitler crud)!

From nti.org

Israel to Keep Nuclear Policy of Deliberate Ambiguity

April 7, 2010

Israel will continue to adhere to a policy of deliberate ambiguity regarding its nuclear operations, with the support of the United States, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said today (see GSN, Oct. 2, 2009).

"This policy of ambiguity constitutes one of the pillars of Israeli national security and the Americans consider it very important," Ayalon said in a radio interview, Agence France-Presse reported.

"There is no reason for the Americans to change their approach or for Israel to change its position," the deputy minister said.

For the last 40 years, Jerusalem has declared that it would not be the first to introduce strategic arms in the Middle East. It has never formally acknowledged the existence of its widely presumed nuclear arsenal, which is estimated to encompass 100 to 200 warheads.

"This policy will continue and no pressure from any country will make it change," Ayalon said (Agence France-Presse/Press Trust of India, April 7).

Why should anyone be transparent?
Why should anyone think a treaty means anything!?!?

Why make rules if NO ONE is going to follow them?
And YES, I said NO ONE.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Iran is no Saint and I have said that on many occasions but that does not justify the Western meddling in that country in Iran since 1953 and even before. Part of the reason Iran is so screwed up is due to Western meddling, can you blame them for being an Islamic theocracy?

Read. Not one instance.

Iran has many domestic problems, as all countries do, but for you to compare Iran as an aggressor in the same category as the US or Israel is absolutely laughable and dismisses any credibility you may have had.

Read, Not one instance.

Sure, Iran may help provide weapons to it's neighboring allies to help fight the illegal foreign invaders. That is not aggression, these are rightful actions considering the aggressors who are stealing land via countless wars. Iran has every right to protect it's iregional interests as they actually are a member of the region.

Read, Not one instance. Just Justification for their actions.

What reason does the US have to be meddling in the region? The answer is NONE other than their imperialist agenda that they are achieving with the help of media manipulation, corporate bankers who fund these wars while they rob the tax payers/regular citizens, and the American Exceptionalism that is so rampant in the real world and on forums such as these.

Read, Not one instance yet.

Let's not forget the Iraq/Iran war who some of you still try and blame on Iran, which was clearly started by Iraq and backed by the United states.

Read, Still Not one instance mentioned.

Iran is not the hell hole you make it out to be,

Never said it was. Nice try though

You want to speak about credibility but we must put things into context first, which you clearly are not ready to do.

Have you read your own replies?

I can careless what you think about my "credibility".

Fair enough.
The deal is square.

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by binkman

 

"I don't see the Iranians committing even half the crimes the US government has."

Of course you don't.
It must be nice to have a selective memory and eyesight.

Oppression of women doesn't count I guess? How about executing homosexuals? That may not count for much in your opinion,but it sure does in my opinion. What a bunch of horsesheet!

ETA: I hope I responded to right comment. This was meant for whoever said that the Iranians don't commit half the crimes the US govt. does...

Originally posted by MassOccurs
Anyone else ever thought of the possibility that Osama bin Laden was getting close to uniting the Islamic world under one government, creating a super nation including Indonesia and all of the Middle East from Pakistan to Libya? A modern caliphate with Mecca as the capital and a population that would rival China, and huge amounts of oil wealth.

So 9/11 was staged and Islamic countries have been occupied since. Alongside a massive propaganda effort to demonize Islam.

Even if not true, I've always wondered about the Western response if there were a serious movement toward a 21st century caliphate. It would be a powerhouse with a greater GDP than China or India, and a huge threat to Western supremacy.

No, he wasn't getting "close", but that WAS the objective. The only exception was that the capital of the caliphate was to be in Baghdad instead of Mecca or Medina, and it is intended to stretch initially from Spain (aka "al-Andalus", once Muslim territory) to Indonesia. Baghdad is more centrally located as a "secular" capital for a caliphate. The plan was (and is) being pushed by wahabbis, a Sunni faction, in opposition to the Persians, who would rather rule it themselves, which is why we see their intrigues in the middle east, opposing non-Shia governments.

Right now, the torch bearers for that (wahabbist) plan are the Muslim Brotherhood, and they seem to be making more headway than AQ ever could have seriously imagined.