false apostle Paul is the 1st AntiChrist! Christians quote Paul to counter radical teachings of Jes

reply to post by Akragon


Well of course the word "trinity" doesn't exist in any original texts. It's a LATIN term to describe the three in one nature of God. The original text were written in GREEK.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thank you...

Originally posted by Akragon
So the son of God in confined to a label...

A label? No, a religion. Do you not believe that Jesus was a Jew?

Why baptize them in the name of three if only one of them was God?

Why say there is only one God if there are three?

Or three in one?

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

I don't see any conflict there. The Trinity is one God, three hypostases.

Well, you're wrong. Or maybe you don't understand what "repent" means... it doesn't mean "oops, forgive me and I'll run out and do it again."

Thats your opinion...

And why is it always about me?

He said to the adulterer Go and do not sin again... did he not?

That's exactly what I said, why are you arguing with it?

Do you mind answering it directly?

Sure... Saved from what exactly?

Saved from dying to our sins, obviously. Why do you claim to believe three of the Gospels and then act like you've never read them?

So, is one of your problems with Paul that you believe in reincarnation and he refuted it?

Please feel free to cite the passage...

Oops, my mistake, I was thinking of the passage in Hebrews:

Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews 9:27-28 NIV)

which was not written by Paul, sorry.

reply to post by Akragon


The Hebrew word for "one" used in the Shema that you quoted and Christ referenced as the greatest commandment means one in unity, not one numerically. The exact same Hebrew word is used when God said Adam and Eve became "one" flesh. Clearly they did not immediately become one (singular) person when they were joined in marriage.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Thank you...

No problem friend. Just had to point out that's a bad argument. There are many theological carry-over terms from the Latin language that we still use in English. Another is "rapture". If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone in a rapture debate say:

"The rapture is false doctrine, the word rapture isn't even in the Bible!",


That's true, yet the word is in the Latin Bible, it's just a carry-over from that language also.

reply to post by adjensen

A label? No, a religion. Do you not believe that Jesus was a Jew?

Not a very good one...

I don't see any conflict there. The Trinity is one God, three hypostases.

Now where does it say that Gods essence is three?

Better yet, where does it say "the holy spirit" is God?

That's exactly what I said, why are you arguing with it?

Because you have a tendancy of treating people as lesser then yourself... do you believe i don't understand what repentance means?

Shall we continue to state the obvious?

Saved from dying to our sins, obviously. Why do you claim to believe three of the Gospels and then act like you've never read them?

The spirit does not die... ever...

Even lazarus was conscious in the little Narative of "Hell"... which coincidentally is only found in Luke.. go figure

Oops, my mistake, I was thinking of the passage in Hebrews:...which was not written by Paul, sorry.

So clearly you don't read everyones replies... I'll refer you to page 2 of this thread...

Have you actually read the entire chapter of Hebrews 9? Or did you just google it?

It has nothing to do with reincarnation my friend... look again

reply to post by Akragon


Where does it say the Holy Spirit is God?

Genesis 1:2 and right through Revelation. There are many OT references where God is speaking and says "My Spirit" this, and "My Spirit" that.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And how do i feel about the OT?

Let me rephrase... where did Jesus say "the holy spirit is God"?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And how do i feel about the OT?

Let me rephrase... where did Jesus say "the holy spirit is God"?

Jesus called Him the Parakletos in Greek. In Hebrew He is called the "Ruach ha'Kodesh". And you can't separate the OT from Christ. He is the Torah made flesh, the fulfillment of the Law and prophets. Every feast, ritual, type and foreshadow points to Christ. Heck, the genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah when the Hebrew root definitions are used spells out the Christian gospel. The entire book is about Christ.

reply to post by Akragon

It has nothing to do with reincarnation my friend... look again

It refutes reincarnation, pure and simple. You can read anything you like into it, but reincarnation is NOT a Jewish belief, it is NOT a Christian belief, and if all you want from Christ is some basic morality, you'd be better off going to an Eastern religion, which supports reincarnation AND has similar "do unto others" teachings.

But I'm not going to argue with you about reincarnation in the Bible. As I recall, we had this discussion over a year ago, and if memory serves, it ended with my stating that, were I wrong, we can meet up in the afterlife and I'll buy you a beer. I'll let it go at that, again.

I'm not an expert or anything but this is what I think. Paul was a Pharisee. As such he realized the impossibility of anyone obeying the law. It's not possible for a human to never sin. He felt great relief that Jesus made it possible for him to be saved even though he could never ever ever carry out the law. So he was expressing that relief sometimes in hyperbolic language because of his gratitude, but since Jesus IS truth, he embodies the law so anyone who accepts him is going to be carrying out the law in a mysterious way even though they physically can't do it, so there's really no contradiction.

reply to post by adjensen

It refutes reincarnation, pure and simple.

You are completely wrong... The subject being addressed is whether or not Christ had to be sacrificed more than once.

Read the chapter don't cherry pick one verse and call it a refutation...

And yes... since you clearly are not interested in reading what it says, i will leave it at that

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And how do i feel about the OT?

Let me rephrase... where did Jesus say "the holy spirit is God"?

Jesus called Him the Parakletos in Greek. In Hebrew He is called the "Ruach ha'Kodesh". And you can't separate the OT from Christ. He is the Torah made flesh, the fulfillment of the Law and prophets. Every feast, ritual, type and foreshadow points to Christ. Heck, the genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah when the Hebrew root definitions are used spells out the Christian gospel. The entire book is about Christ.

That didn't answer my question did it...

So we have Jesus the son of God, never actually claiming to be God, and also never saying "the holy spirit" is God either...

Yet he did say there is one God, and HE is greater then himself...

That about wraps up the trinity wouldn't you say... (of course you wouldn't... but thats ok too!)

reply to post by Akragon

Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many

I don't know how else to take "Just as people are destined to die once", when tied to "so Christ was sacrificed once" as a simile... if people are reincarnated, then either that comparison is straight out wrong, or Christ is sacrificed over and over.

Barring no clear evidence of reincarnation elsewhere in the Bible, I'd say my parsing of that sentence is the valid one.

reply to post by adjensen


Who was John?

Did God not Hate Esau, yet love Jacob "before they were born"?

Is there anything "new" under the sun according to the bible?

Jeremiah 1:4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Job 1:20-21
Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and he fell to the ground and worshipped. And he said, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I shall return there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."

Theres lots more too... but believe whatever you will i guess...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And how do i feel about the OT?

Let me rephrase... where did Jesus say "the holy spirit is God"?

Jesus called Him the Parakletos in Greek. In Hebrew He is called the "Ruach ha'Kodesh". And you can't separate the OT from Christ. He is the Torah made flesh, the fulfillment of the Law and prophets. Every feast, ritual, type and foreshadow points to Christ. Heck, the genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah when the Hebrew root definitions are used spells out the Christian gospel. The entire book is about Christ.

That didn't answer my question did it...

So we have Jesus the son of God, never actually claiming to be God, and also never saying "the holy spirit" is God either...

Yet he did say there is one God, and HE is greater then himself...

That about wraps up the trinity wouldn't you say... (of course you wouldn't... but thats ok too!)

Of course it did. And we've been over the "greater than" comment a bagillion times. That's not a denial of deity. The Pharisees knew quite well what He was claiming and plotted for His murder for blasphemy.

reply to post by Akragon


Yes He did hate one and love the other before they were born, God has a unique attribute called "foreknowledge". He can see the future because He is not bound by the limitations of the spacetime dimension. That's the same attribute He utilizes to authenticate messages to us. Detailed prophecy in advance. He alone can see the end from the beginning being God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And how do i feel about the OT?

Let me rephrase... where did Jesus say "the holy spirit is God"?

Jesus called Him the Parakletos in Greek. In Hebrew He is called the "Ruach ha'Kodesh". And you can't separate the OT from Christ. He is the Torah made flesh, the fulfillment of the Law and prophets. Every feast, ritual, type and foreshadow points to Christ. Heck, the genealogy in Genesis from Adam to Noah when the Hebrew root definitions are used spells out the Christian gospel. The entire book is about Christ.

That didn't answer my question did it...

So we have Jesus the son of God, never actually claiming to be God, and also never saying "the holy spirit" is God either...

Yet he did say there is one God, and HE is greater then himself...

That about wraps up the trinity wouldn't you say... (of course you wouldn't... but thats ok too!)

Of course it did. And we've been over the "greater than" comment a bagillion times. That's not a denial of deity. The Pharisees knew quite well what He was claiming and plotted for His murder for blasphemy.

And i told you i didn't say it was a denial of deity... no one is saying he wasn't divine...

Claiming to be the son of God would have still been seen as blasphemy from a judaic perspective... but which was the right religion, Judism or something based on what he said?

Yes He did hate one and love the other before they were born, God has a unique attribute called "foreknowledge". He can see the future because He is not bound by the limitations of the spacetime dimension. That's the same attribute He utilizes to authenticate messages to us. Detailed prophecy in advance. He alone can see the end from the beginning being God.

So you truely believe in all the history of time, this is the only instance you've been incarnated into the physical... knowing full well that "nothing can be created or destroyed" apparently...

Mind showing some passages that mention this "forknowledge"?

reply to post by Akragon


Huh?

That speaks to the knowledge of God (that whole "omniscient" bit) not the pre-existence of people.

reply to post by Akragon


You're mixing thermodynamics with quantum physics, specifically the nature of time. Secondly, that's what miracles are, event horizons where the natural observable laws of physics, time and space are interrupted by an act of God. Creation itself is an example. Time was created. Once energy is created it cannot be destroyed.

What do you think "deity" means? (Theos in the Greek)