Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

false apostle Paul is the 1st AntiChrist! Christians quote Paul to counter radical teachings of Jes

page: 3
5
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join

posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:30 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 





The blood sacrifices were never needed to begin with...


Not what the OT teaches at all. The OT was the foreshadowing of the good things to come in the NT, which was an end to sacrifice and burnt offering. God taught Adam to sacrifice, and Abraham sacrificed. Are you saying you're any better than Abraham? The system of payment for sins has always been blood of the innocent for the blood of the guilty, in this respect the blood of lambs, goats or doves.

The entire point of Genesis 22 and Exodus 12 was the foreshadowing teaching that Jesus would be crucified for our sins. His crucifiction was the prophetic fulfillment of those chapters. The blood sacrifices were dress rehearsals for Christ's crucifiction, but by the time he came the jews had been so steeped in their tradition they missed the prophecy being fulfilled which brought the need for a sacrifice to an end.




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:32 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Why would i care what the OT says?

Im not Jewish... Nor am i Christian...

I know where the truth lies, and its not in the OT...




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by ganjoa
Every time I hear "the Apostle Paul" it gets translated internally to "the apostate Paul" - one has to wonder how Paul got to be an apostle since he never met Jesus! Someone asked what is radical about "Love thy neighbor as thy self" - it's not much of a radical STATEMENT - but especially today it is a COMPLETELY RADICAL way of life if one practices it.

ganjoa


According to scripture he did meet Jesus post resurrection and glorified body on his way to go persecute some more believers in Christ. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" is only a radical statement/belief in a world that is evil and rotten to the core. Such notions seem alien to evil folk.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Why would i care what the OT says?

Im not Jewish... Nor am i Christian...

I know where the truth lies, and its not in the OT...



Then what you have is your own religion. You completely ignore the OT, and only have 3 gospels to go by because Luke was with Paul so you ignore the 85% of the rest of the NT. So basically you get no benefit from anything at all in the bible. You're a strange person to say the least. What you're doing is no different than me picking up a Stephen King novel, flipping to the middle of the book and reading 3 chapters and then not finishing the rest of the book. What's the point? You decieve yourself. Far as i am concerned you have zero credibility in biblical scholarship. Someone who ignores 85% of the book knows absolutely nothing about the truth at all.
edit on 6-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:54 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




Your mistake is assuming those who argue against Paul are even believers of the new covenant.


Well, I recall you posting here that that certain books like 2 Timothy are not of Paul, but rather a forgery.

Now do all christians adhere to your view? Or are there many christians who disagree with you?

Those who argue against Paul, but follow Jesus are still christians.
Jesus is more important than Paul.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 

Originally posted by Akragon
I know where the truth lies...




Knowing where the truth lies is completely useless if you refuse to believe it...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Murgatroid
 


haha!!

Nice one



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Why would i care what the OT says?

Im not Jewish... Nor am i Christian...

I know where the truth lies, and its not in the OT...



Then what you have is your own religion. You completely ignore the OT, and only have 3 gospels to go by because Luke was with Paul so you ignore the 85% of the rest of the NT. So basically you get no benefit from anything at all in the bible. You're a strange person to say the least. What you're doing is no different than me picking up a Stephen King novel, flipping to the middle of the book and reading 3 chapters and then not finishing the rest of the book. What's the point? You decieve yourself. Far as i am concerned you have zero credibility in biblical scholarship. Someone who ignores 85% of the book knows absolutely nothing about the truth at all.
edit on 6-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


Well thats the best part about not being "christian"

I can choose what i like to believe... I believe Jesus was "the truth, the life, and the way" as he said... So i find his words, and like minded "masters" so to speak...

I don't need to stick to one book, and i certainly don't need to believe in the God of the OT who was not the same "God" as the one Jesus spoke of.

And of course it doesn't matter what you or any other "christians" think of me either way... does it?

As far as im concerned...Very few of you so called "christians" understand the guy you supposedly worship at all... so why would i care what you think?



You're a strange person to say the least


thank you!

edit on 6-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Murgatroid
 

haha!! Nice one

I like your spirit Akragon and I'm happy to see that you understood I was only trying to use a little humor and shock value to make a point.


So many on ATS really don't seem too interested in the truth and this is why I love to read posts by Akragon and others that truly ARE seeking what is REAL instead of just trying to win arguments or be right all the time.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Those who argue against Paul, but follow Jesus are still christians.
Jesus is more important than Paul.


Of course he is, and you don't "need" Paul to get to Christ.

But Paul's letters were included intentionally in the New Testament, because they are of value in understanding Christianity, both historically and theologically. So I question people who dismiss him, usually by asking (as I have in this thread and others recently,) for examples of direct contradiction of Jesus by Paul, and I've yet to be given one that wasn't wrongly interpreted, taken out of context or simply not a contradiction when the person thought that it was.

Why? Because these books have stood over 1,900 years of intense scrutiny by some of the most intelligent minds over that period of time. If Augustine, Martin Luther or Thomas Aquinas didn't find direct contradictions, what is the likelihood that an armchair scholar, who thinks ignorance of Judaism, Christian theology and history or the reading of goofball conspiracy theories makes him an expert in religious literature, is going to find valid ones?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 


Or the late Dr. Bruce M. Metzger.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:03 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 


Is this a contradiction?

Mat 23
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

VS.

Romans 4:1
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 9:10
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

And this of course...

1 Cor 4 (NIV)
14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

I use the NIV just for you in that passage...

Interestingly enough, the KJV does not say he said Father...





posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Paul is talking in essence like a "forefather". Like how in America we would refer to the "founding forefathers". There are tons of commentaries explaining this if you would search friend. Stephen also says "our father Abraham".
edit on 6-8-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:24 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Not interested in commentaries my friend...

Just asking a question




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Not interested in commentaries my friend...

Just asking a question



Commentaries shed a TON of light to the scriptures, especially from Greek and Hebrew scholars who point out nuances with both languages that get missed in the English. Stephen also refers to Abraham as "our father" when testifying before the Sanhedrin. Christ's statement was hyperbole, it was never intended to exclude people from calling their relatives father, of for a father-like figure to use the term as a metaphor. And don't apologize, the only way we learn is by asking questions.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:36 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 




Is this a contradiction?

Mat 23 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


I think Jesus is referring to titles of religious leaders.

Matthew 23:8-10

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
The blood sacrifices were never needed to begin with...

Do you believe Jesus changed the rules or corrected them?

The true God does not need one to harm any living creature as a means of atonement for sin... This was mans lack of understanding as is well documented in the OT



It possibly is the way it should be but people on evil intent may have changed OT to include animal sacrifce.

Animal sacrifice is absent and possibly condemned in the Book of Enoch which puts the fall of angels in more details and possibly pre-dated OT (pre-deluvian). It includes the murder of Abel by Cain, but no mention of animal sacrifice made by Abel.

Also the Book of Enoch agrees completely with Gospel of Jesus, even includes Jesus in it mentioned as "Son of Man". It is as radical as Jesus teachings.

This is probably the reason Book of Enoch did not made it into the Bible Canon. There's too much of truth in it! It goes on to say that all the worldly things we take for granted today came from the fallen angels (false gods) and is putting much misery to nature and animals. Earliest 'Green book'??

More info on Paul's twisted doctrines. sad I couldn't edit the original topic!

www.jesusfamilies.org...
edit on 6-8-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:50 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



And don't apologize, the only way we learn is by asking questions.


lol...

I've heard that explaination before along with many others as well...

Why would i appoligise?




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by ahnggk
More info on Paul's twisted doctrines. sad I couldn't edit the original topic!

www.jesusfamilies.org...

Twisted doctrines? jesusfamilies.org is nothing BUT twisted doctrines...

This link source seems to be from some type of cult that also teaches against the Trinity.

Almost ALL cults and false religions attack the trinity because it discredits the deity of Jesus.

ALL cults and false religions are creations of the Illuminati and are based on LIES.


Oh my goodness! Danger, danger!! That website is some sort of cult! Please, no one, be deceived! Wow - scary stuff.

jesusfamilies.org is a cult

Tim Spiess’s anti-Trinitarianism

I have read a number of arguments against the Trinity. I do not think I have seen anything as profoundly ignorant, and I honestly mean that, as Tim Spiess of JesusFamilies.org on the Trinity.

He almost tricked me into leaving my family behind and coming to New York to join his cult. SERIOUSLY!! He has not had much success…THAT was a very scary part of my Journey. He is very slick and sly, I am surprised that he hasn’t captured more people in his net. His false humility charade just about turns you into a zombie…THIS guy is dangerous!

Tim is following the Alexandrian Cult started by the so called Church Father Origen in Alexandria, Changed many things in his so called Bible manuscript, and getting away from the Antiochian Syrian Byzantine text which the Authorized King James was taken from, better known as the textus receptus. Also Origen was the first Jehovahs Witness, as Origen believed the Lord Jesus was a created being. This false doctrine of Origen was passed on to Eusebius, and later to Arias, who received a great following of people in this false doctrine.

Tim Spiess’s anti-Trinitarianism







edit on 6-8-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



And don't apologize, the only way we learn is by asking questions.


lol...

I've heard that explaination before along with many others as well...

Why would i appoligise?



I've also heard "there are no stupid questions..."

But that isn't true, I've heard some utterly moronic ones before.





new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join