false apostle Paul is the 1st AntiChrist! Christians quote Paul to counter radical teachings of Jes

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posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What didn't you understand when i said i know why they were rejected?



And i've read various opinions on gnostic scripture from "competant scholars"... You're assumptions are astounding sometimes eh...


Okay, name a few of them please.




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What you think i have a list of what i've read handy?


I don't need to display what i've read for all to see... I've told you before i don't care what others think of me, or what i say...

Shall we just derail this thread further and start tossing scholars names around to lend more credibility to what we say? As as we wander down that path you'll call my sources unreliable, and the same old back and forth will ensue as we've all seen many times with you and Mr. jm

No i think not... assume what you will of me my friend... believe me or don't...

But im not interested in that game...




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You should remember the names of well-known scholars you have sought out to find out historical or textual concerns and discrepancies. Im asking because the way you are talking it does not appear you did your research by conferring with competent scholarship.

Just name a few. The only thing I perceive you are not interested in is being called out.

edit on 7-8-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Nope... like i said, not interested in this game...

Im bad with names anyways..


Thing is i don't care if you call me out... or anyone else for that matter... that kinda comes along with not careing what others think.

Now shall we continue with the topic, or continue on about me?

edit on 7-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 



In reality, the only thing that the Gnostic texts have in common with the Christian texts is that they include someone named "Jesus". Attempting to reconcile Gnostic and Christian theology is a nightmare and requires one to discard wide swaths of the New Testament and the whole of the Old Testament, which, in turn, results in the deletion of the rest of the New Testament, as claiming that Jesus wasn't Jewish kind of makes the whole thing pointless


Maddness!


Have you read any of the gnostic texts or just opinions of them from various "christian" scholars?


Of course I've read them, repeatedly.


They're rejection of the OT God is completely understandable


It's understandable to someone who doesn't like the God of the Jews, but that's also the God of Christianity, so either you reconcile that, or you find something else to do, because Christ is explicitly intertwined with the Jewish faith, so rejecting that is rejecting him.

Unless, of course, one just conveniently lifts him out of reality and drops him into a fantasy religion he has no business being associated with.
edit on 7-8-2012 by adjensen because: does != doesn't



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Well let it be hereby declared that your post is pure arbitrary conjecture. That's fine though, you can do that. I'll stick with competent scholarship, especially men with apostolic succession like Irenaeus from the 2nd century AD. He goes into great detail what Marcion and the bunch were doing with the Biblical texts at Alexandria.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



It's understandable to someone who does like the God of the Jews, but that's also the God of Christianity, so either you reconcile that, or you find something else to do, because Christ is explicitly intertwined with the Jewish faith, so rejecting that is rejecting him.


See that i disagree with... The God of judaism isn't the same as the one Jesus spoke of... I have no need to "reconcile" that God with the Father of Jesus, it just doesn't add up...

Christ may be intertwined in that religion, but he also spoke out against much of it... as i've said before, he "might" have been a jew, but he wasn't a very good one.




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Absolutely not. Christ spoke out against the religious hypocrites only.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So he thought the entire Torah was Gods word?

Why did he correct the scriptures then?


And theres no surviving texts from Marcion... so how would you know exactly what he was doing?

There is nothing but reconstructions of his work from the same people that spoke out against him, thats a little one sided wouldn't you say?


edit on 7-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So he thought the entire Torah was Gods word?

Why did he correct the scriptures then?



He didn't. He condemned using one part of it to violate another part of it. Calling those people hypocrites. He also condemned the rabbinical teachings and commentaries of the Torah that the Pharisees elevated to the level of scripture.

And your gnostic texts are all surviving works of his people from Alexandria, as well as 3 complete Bible manuscripts, the TV, TS, and TA. Which have great portions expurgated to align with Gnostic doctrine. Most notably the last 12 verses of Mark.
edit on 7-8-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 



It's understandable to someone who does like the God of the Jews, but that's also the God of Christianity, so either you reconcile that, or you find something else to do, because Christ is explicitly intertwined with the Jewish faith, so rejecting that is rejecting him.


See that i disagree with... The God of judaism isn't the same as the one Jesus spoke of... I have no need to "reconcile" that God with the Father of Jesus, it just doesn't add up...


Ironically, your views are very closely aligned to Marcion, though I doubt you'd like him very much.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


No im not particularly fond of Marcion, but i respect fact that is another view point from an earlier time...

He was a big fan of Paul, so obvioiusly Marcion is at least relevant to this thread.




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Merely because Marcion was quite anti-Semetic. He also heavily altered Paul's epistles for his 130ish AD Gnostic bible, again to align with their doctrines. They were known for "mutilating" the texts.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Merely because Marcion was quite anti-Semetic. He also heavily altered Paul's epistles for his 130ish AD Gnostic bible, again to align with their doctrines. They were known for "mutilating" the texts.


Again this requires trusting the same sect that destroyed a lot of the information about the gnostic belief in the first place...



He didn't. He condemned using one part of it to violate another part of it. Calling those people hypocrites. He also condemned the rabbinical teachings and commentaries of the Torah that the Pharisees elevated to the level of scripture.


So he agreed with all the levitical laws, and the book of Deuteronomy as well?



And your gnostic texts are all surviving works of his people from Alexandria, as well as 3 complete Bible manuscripts, the TV, TS, and TA. Which have great portions expurgated to align with Gnostic doctrine. Most notably the last 12 verses of Mark.


Don't you find it amazing that such things like Alexandria are destroyed?

You don't find it suspicious that throughout history Christians destroy knowledge of other beliefs that don't align with their own?




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


That actually comes from Irenaeus 2ns in apostolic succession from John the apostle. And before the fire at Alexandria to boot. You should read his "Against Heresies" volumes which you can find online. And i don't find it any different than Christ getting pissed at the moneychangers perverting the temple and turning over tbeir tables and driving them out with whips. False doctrine is absolutely critical, men's eternal destiny hangs in the balances.
edit on 7-8-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Originally posted by Akragon
You don't find it suspicious that throughout history Christians destroy knowledge of other beliefs that don't align with their own?


The only thing I find suspicious is how religion will masquerade as Christians and destroy knowledge.

Many criminals hiding behind religious robes have gotten away with countless crimes throughout history.

I am curious as to exactly who you are calling "Christians".

Most who call themselves Christian are NOT Christians.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


That actually comes from Irenaeus 2ns in apostolic succession from John the apostle. And before the fire at Alexandria to boot. You should read his "Against Heresies" volumes which you can find online. And i don't find it any different than Christ getting pissed at the moneychangers perverting the temple and turning over tbeir tables and driving them out with whips. False doctrine is absolutely critical, men's eternal destiny hangs in the balances.
edit on 7-8-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


I have... thank you...


Lets take a look shall we?


Marcion of Pontus succeeded him, and developed his doctrine. In so doing, he advanced the most daring blasphemy against Him who is proclaimed as God by the law and the prophets, declaring Him to be the author of evils, to take delight in war, to be infirm of purpose, and even to be contrary to Himself.


Sounds true so far... OT God contradicts his own laws on the regular... Delights in the death and destruction of his own children (apparently)

And we continue on...



Jesus being derived from that father who is above the God that made the world, and coming into Judæa in the times of Pontius Pilate the governor, who was the procurator of Tiberius Cæsar, was manifested in the form of a man to those who were in Judæa, abolishing the prophets and the law, and all the works of that God who made the world, whom also he calls Cosmocrator. Besides this, he mutilates the Gospel which is according to Luke, removing all that is written respecting the generation of the Lord,


Have you ever wondered why lukes Geneology has 77 members, including God and Jesus... Yet Matthew only has 41?

Which brings back the "questionable" aspect of Luke...


and setting aside a great deal of the teaching of the Lord, in which the Lord is recorded as most dearly confessing that the Maker of this universe is His Father..,

not Good, but theres no proof of this claim since his work was destroyed so we can only rely on the testamony of those that didn't like him...

as i've said.... one sided.


Theres no way to say if what is said about Marcion was true or not without comparing his own work to what is said about it. But i also see no reason to believe what Irenaeus had to say about someone he didn't like to begin with... He wrote about how transmigration of the soul is impossible, and what is wrote about is is a very narrow minded view... which implies that God could not possibly hide the memory of past lives from us... Or even lacks the ability...

Thats his faith in God i guess



Source

edit on 7-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

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edit on 8-8-2012 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid
reply to post by Akragon
 


Originally posted by Akragon
You don't find it suspicious that throughout history Christians destroy knowledge of other beliefs that don't align with their own?


The only thing I find suspicious is how religion will masquerade as Christians and destroy knowledge.

Many criminals hiding behind religious robes have gotten away with countless crimes throughout history.

I am curious as to exactly who you are calling "Christians".

Most who call themselves Christian are NOT Christians.


No one knows what a "christian" is... thats why theres 34k different kinds of said religion instead of one...

They can't even agree amoungst themselves so how can we define the label?

They're supposed to follow what Jesus said... yet prefer his so called followers words to his

*shrug* So i idk bro...




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Because Matthew's audience was Jews who care about the genealogy going back to Abraham. Luke has a gentile audience (as well as Mark) who couldn't care less about His genealogy going back to Abraham.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 





Interesting story... sounds simliar to mine actually... but i came to reject Christianity because i've found that its full of liars/hypocrites and people looking to profit from it... Obviously not everyone involved, but even one ruins the whole batch.


Faulty logic. Humanity is hypocritical in general, not just one religion or group of people. You might as well reject being human at all then, because there isn't a perfect man alive that is walking this world right now. It's a foolish thing to judge everyone for what some people do, that by definition that makes you a hypocrit, because you yourself are not perfect. Welcome to the corrupted human race. What did Jesus tell the pharisees who wanted to stone the adulteress? Right "let him amoung you have has no sin cast the first stone". No one is perfect and when someone thinks they are it's called narcisism. Are you a narcicist?
edit on 7-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)





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