Mars - "Water/Ice clouds" - Straight from Nasa

reply to post by Arken


I can´t remember that we ever had an argument. Please explain to me what "climbing on mirrors" means. If you post such things about me, then make it clear what you mean. I always respected your far fetched posts and topics and not once made a comment like you did.

If your saying I blindly follow what phage says, you are so damn wrong. Read what I posted and think about it. I said I never came across such people here like the OP said. Its a known fact that there is any form of h2o on mars. OP apparently has the feeling / impression that there are vast amounts of such people here on ATS. I simply said I never ran across more than a handful of people posting such nonsense. Phage did this, too. Nothing wrong with it!

But I guess I will get a message or two the next minutes "x has added you as a respected foe" like I did the last days from people I never had talked with.

If someone could humour me for a second please.

Ice is frozen water right?, and there is ice clouds on mars, so.......it would not be unreasonable to say there is water on mars?

Are they solely formed in the atmosphere and evaporate there?

Also why are we calling them Ice Clouds?, do we get Ice Clouds on earth?, I thought we just got clouds.

reply to post by Murad


Icicle particles... like snow...

reply to post by verschickter


So you have never heard of the "water on Mars debate" then...?

Carbon Dioxide Debate:

CO2 (carbon dioxide) is made whenever a carbon based item or lifeform burns (is oxygenated). It is also made whenever a hydrocarbon is degraded into water and carbon dioxide. CO2 generation is a natural process. Some examples include:

Converting sugar to energy, in almost all living matter. (Reverse of photosynthesis)
Burning fuels. (Car, bus, train and other exhausts such as factory pollution).
Adding vinegar to baking soda.

Read more: wiki.answers.com...

First images from Mars MSL - Curiosity -

reply to post by Havick007


So it snows on mars?

reply to post by Havick007


Yes, 10 years ago maybe. My point is, I´ve not the impression that there are so much people on ATS that deny water on mars (or moon for the sake). Not so much at least to dedicate them a thread and say here is your proof, while the proof was there for years.

I´m not saying your thread is worthless, don´t get me wrong. I was curious (as phage was probably) where all these people you talk about are. Since phage asked you for any link to a thread, and you did not provide one I´m thinking you´re intention to make this thread was from your gut feeling. Which is okay of course. My whole point was I never ran across those people (or more of a handful).

I finally was able to get the meaning "climbing on the mirrors" which means, something like clutching at straws.
I would like to know from Arken, what straws am I clutching at?
I can´t stand people who never had a debate with me calling me such and then put a word "as usual" behind it.
I always smiled at Arken but had respect for his claims, even if very very far reached. Gone now for sure!

Originally posted by Murad
Ice is frozen water right?, and there is ice clouds on mars, so.......it would not be unreasonable to say there is water on mars?

Yes, there's water on Mars.

Are they solely formed in the atmosphere and evaporate there?

No, according to some ESA scientists, water is frozen in the poles, but is covered by CO2 ice (that freezes at a lower temperature, so it freezes after the water). When the warmer weather returns, the CO2 ice evaporates and the same happens to the water. The water then forms the clouds, where it freezes again, and the clouds move over to the opposite pole (where the weather is colder at that time) and it snows.

Also why are we calling them Ice Clouds?, do we get Ice Clouds on earth?, I thought we just got clouds.

Yes, high altitude clouds are ice clouds, like those that make an halo around the Sun or the Moon.

Originally posted by Havick007
I have members go on and on that they are all only dust clouds and that water clouds don't exist on Mars... so then explain that again please...

I don't remember anyone denying that there are water ice clouds on Mars, although I admit that I may have thought so some years ago.

I do remember that there are several photos of clouds, taken both from the ground and from orbit, and those photographed from orbit, if I remember it well, are usually photographed using an orange filter, as it shows better those clouds.

See here.

reply to post by Havick007


H2O clouds have been confirmed to exist on Mars for quite some time now. I remember the Mars Pathfinder mission in the late 1990s studied H2O fog and clouds.

I'm not sure which ATS members the OP is referring to, but they are probably just ignorant of that fact about Mars -- and hopefully they are a minority of people on ATS who profess to know something about Mars...

...(what I mean is I hope the people who were unaware of water clouds on Mars being common science knowledge for about for at least a decade or two aren't the same ATS members who are trying to make like they know something about Mars).

Sure -- there was a time years ago that people were not sure about there being water-ice clouds on Mars, but the spate of mars science missions since the late 1990s has taught us a lot about mars -- including confirming the idea of water-ice clouds on mars that was only a theoretical hypothesis prior to the 1990s.

Please stop bickering Lets discuss the topic on hand to the best....if possible

Nice images on the exosky.net website.

Originally posted by hp1229
Please stop bickering

Lets discuss the topic on hand to the best....if possible

Nice images on the exosky.net website.

The topic at hand is the OP's false assertion that ATS is full of people who don't beleive there are water-ice clouds on Mars.

That is a straw-man argument that only seems to be made to discredit some members of the ATS community. The fact is that most of us ATS-ers who have been active in discussions about Mars KNOW that water-ice clouds had been confirmed to exist several years ago. The OP is making it sound as if most of us have been vociferously denying it, when we haven't.

So for the OP to say something like "See! I told all you non-believers that there are H2O clouds on Mars!" is simply a straw-man, and thus is not a valid argument.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I did not wanted to take it to this level but yeah, it looks like this. Additionally there are people then who blindly believe its this way and call other member names just because they have another opinion. I think most posters here showed its not like OP thinks it is.
But its then "climbing the mirrors" if you know what I mean

argue backbite name call argue backbite name call argue backbite name call argue backbite name call argue
2nd line.

reply to post by Havick007

I thought this was common knowledge for years... These people must have been living under a rock for at least a decade or so if they actually don't think Mars has water ice clouds.

Originally posted by AlphaHawk
reply to post by Havick007

 

I don't think you have proven a point yet.

No doubt there are people here who claim there is no clouds (dust or vapour).

But last time I checked, there are people here that claim the earth is flat, that reptilians live among us and that the worlds space program is a hoax...

Such diversity!

Personally I'd chose another word..but I don't want to offend such-diverse-people!

science.nasa.gov...

Could just refer to them as "Diversities". You will offend them by merely not believe what they say. You will get them angry if you dare to post information that proves they are wrong.

reply to post by Havick007


These have been known about for like 3-4 years now.

It's your average moron at home who only gets his info from MSM that doesn't know it's possible.

Originally posted by verschickter
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

I did not wanted to take it to this level but yeah, it looks like this. Additionally there are people then who blindly believe its this way and call other member names just because they have another opinion. I think most posters here showed its not like OP thinks it is.
But its then "climbing the mirrors" if you know what I mean

I'm not necessarily saying it is a straw-man argument intentionally meant to make a group of ATSers look bad, but the argument is indeed a straw man, and if the OP's straw man argument is taken at face value, intentional or not, it does serve to make some ATSers look bad -- as if there is a large group of people on here denying the existence of H2O clouds on Mars, ignoring evidence indicating otherwise. That is simply not true.

I´m not saying that either