Mars - "Water/Ice clouds" - Straight from Nasa

...back on topic.

OP --

It is not a brand new "revelation" from NASA that water-ice clouds exist in the martin atmosphere.

Here are images from the Mars Pathfinder mission (which landed in 1997). The pathfinder spotted water-ice clouds and photographed them, way back in the late 1990s:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

Look towards the bottom of the linked page. There are images of completely overcast skies -- overcast with stratus clouds consisting of water-ice. So, most of us who follow NASAs mars missions are very aware of water-ice clouds on Mars, and have been aware of this for years.

It is common scientific knowledge. There is not a large contingent of skeptics (if any) on ATS who are trying to deny the existence of H2O clouds.

reply to post by Phage


A challenge that you took up You where the strawmans strawman

Originally posted by grubblesnert
are you and the other responder to the OP seriously asking for "links" to provide proof of the above statement?
I find it odd that this is what you choose to challenge the OP on, the fact that he states that other members have stated that water clouds don't exist.....
I think you and the other responder are either unintentionally missing the main point or purposely choosing to obfuscate.
Or.....I'm totally misreading this whole thing

I think you did not read this

I´m not saying your thread is worthless, don´t get me wrong. I was curious (as phage was probably) where all these people you talk about are. Since phage asked you for any link to a thread, and you did not provide one I´m thinking you´re intention to make this thread was from your gut feeling. Which is okay of course. My whole point was I never ran across those people (or more of a handful).

Not trying to obfuscate as Phage doesn´t either.

If you post a picture of an Elephant and tell me it's a Tiger, I'll say "No, your wrong, that's not a Tiger, it's an Elephant"

That doesn't mean I'm saying that Tigers don't exist. That means I'm saying what your are claiming as a Tiger is in fact an Elephant.

But then you take what I'm saying wrong, and think I'm saying Tigers don't exist.

I think perhaps this mentality of being attacked or persecuted by people stems from simply misunderstanding what people are saying. Take the example above for instance.

As far as I know it's been accepted as fact for quite some time that there is water ice on Mars (underground and in clouds) and some evidence of actual liquid water (or some type of liquid at least) The picture from one of the rovers with what appears to be droplets of liquid on one of it's legs comes to mind. There was talk of extremely high salt content allowing some water to stay liquid on the surface, at least for short periods of time before freezing or sublimating.

reply to post by James1982


perchlorates. i believe that's what the phoenix lander discovered, high concentrations of perchlorates at least in the soil where it landed....well...not really soil, soil has all sorts of stuff in it like bacteria...sand? dirt? whatever the technical term is for mars regolith.

Originally posted by optimus primal
reply to post by James1982

 

perchlorates. i believe that's what the phoenix lander discovered, high concentrations of perchlorates at least in the soil where it landed....well...not really soil, soil has all sorts of stuff in it like bacteria...sand? dirt? whatever the technical term is for mars regolith.

Interestingly, one of the reasons for choosing this landing site (Gale Crater and Mt. Sharp) is that orbital analysis shows the presences of clays. Clays are known only to form in a very wet environment, and only in neutral water (i.e., NOT salty water and NOT perchlorates).

Other analysis of the area shows some of the higher elevations also show signs of having once been underwater. All of this points to the idea that Gale Crater could have once (maybe a couple billion years ago) been the location of a lake full of more neutral water.

That was one of the major reasons NASA chose this landing site over others. Another reason is because there are outcroppings of exposed strata along the walls of Mt. Sharp that could be studied by the rover in order to discern a geologic history of that part of Mars -- which NASA thinks was once a very watery part of Mars.

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by Phage

 

With so many contributions and a long standing membership on this site perhaps you could set a better example for newer members?
"I want to ask anyone here who has ever stated that Mars does not have water/ice vapor clouds to explain why Nasa and JPL say differently as per a recent "weather" mapping image used for the landing of curiosity... "
The "I have members go on and on that they are all only dust clouds and that water clouds don't exist on Mars... so then explain that again please..." is more an afterthought than a topic of discussion.

edit on 6-8-2012 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)

The answer is there is no one here who does that, therefore there is nothing to discuss. How do you not get that? The responses that were garnered is due to the OP making a false assertion. There is no informed debate about ice clouds on Mars, it is a known fact. The OP was asked to show where the debate he claimed was raging .. was raging. Unless we know what he is referring to, we can't discuss his topic. He was unable to show even one instance of this.

It would be like me creating an OP talking about the recent disbelief in the existence of Solar Flares. It's completely reasonable for someone to ask me for proof such a debate exists. If I can not find proof, I should retract my OP.

Simply put, he called people out that aren´t there. Anyways, did OP think those special people would come here (if the even find it) and say, yes OP, I was wrong. You won´t see that. Ergo it would be better placed in RANT.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Your responding to the wrong person. You should have got at me 3 days ago when I gave a crap.

Well, we've beat that horse regarding water-ice clouds in the sky...

...However, just as interesting (and some may say more interesting) is the possibility that the area in which Curiosity is now sitting could have once been a relatively deep water lake.

Much of the low-lying floor of Gale Crater may have been the bed of an ancient Martian lake a couple of billion years ago -- although much of the lake bed may have been covered up by blowing dust after the lake dried up. However, but there are exposed areas of strata on the sides of Mt. Sharp (the mountain inside the crater) that could have been formed by muddy sediment being laid down inside the lake. NASA hopes to investigate these strata, and perhaps find layers that existed during the time Gale Crater was still a lake.

There are also alluvial fans to the North of the site, which also looks to have been laid down by running water. Those alluvial fans could be the remnants of localized flooding, and the investigation of that sediment could be quite exciting.

This is a great landing site, with the potential for some interesting discoveries.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


yeah, i'm really excited about this new mission. It's only Sol2 of the mission and there's already some really awesome pictures. can't wait till they start doing experiments!

reply to post by optimus primal


Absolutely.

NASA's mantra for its mars exploration program has been "Follow the Water", and Gale Crater seems like a prime place to go in order to follow that water.

The clay deposits, sulfates and the overall layout of other sediment deposits certainly makes Gale Crater seem like it was once a watery place.