Voucher schools in Louisiana include some teaching creationism

reply to post by murphy22

Originally posted by murphy22
A "theory" is not a fact.

A hypothese is an "educated guess" A guess, educated or not is only a guess.

A guess or a theory is not a "fact." It means you don't know. So in reality, nobody knows. Why can't both theories be taught? One guess is as good as another.

What?! NO! One guess is NOT as good as the other...

I hope your ~12 years old, because even 12 year old minors here would laugh at you for that statement.
You can not be serious!

Have you ever heard of things like objective evidence, the scientific method or peer review?

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by borntowatch
Irrespective your faith, creation is a legitimate belief held by many, children need to be taught it as a view held by many. Not teaching the view of ID is tantamount to ignoring education.

There is a big difference between teaching your kids that some people believe in fairy tales and teaching them to believe in fairy tales themselves.

Reptilian overlords living inside the earth and using us to mine gold for their homeland on Mars is also a belief held by many. Neither is legitimate as neither has any basis in any scientific discovery. They are just things people believe because they were told to.

You would think ATS would be a place people would be against that the most.

Big Bang, abiogenesis and biological evolution cant be considered legitimate either then. Its a fairytale as well.
It is completely illogical and contrary to anything science has found. No basis for any and no evidence.
Seriously a Big Bang, there was nothing then everything. Thats a fairytale
Abiogenesis, no life then dust and water make life...come on thats ludicrous.
No energy then from nothing we have energy. What magic caused energy??? Thats a fairytale.
Evolution is not repeatable observable or testable. A fly turning in to a fly is not evolution.


Evolution is a stupid premise that atheists and some religious people believe without evidence, so why do we have to suffer that inane doctrine of science. I accept people believe that evolution is posssible so I believe it should be taught in school. Your arrogance opposes any one who chooses another belief, your arrogance denies others choice. You are a dictator, a fundamental extremist.

Common sense is not elusive.

reply to post by ColCurious


Dear ColCurious,

The hard part about ATS is that I frequently read bad science against bad theology. Science does not call the big bang or evolution a FACT. Science looks at evidence, evidence is the residue of an event, not the event. The rules that govern how things interact and what we observe are theories because we cannot even prove we exist. If you investigate quantum physics, the cannot even explain gravity, there is insufficient mass for the amount of gravity that is exerted. Please give science it's due, it doesn't claim to have facts, that is Science 101.

As for the bad religious claims, there are some who claim the earth is however many thousand years old. I ask them how long the first day was. The answer is we don't know, it could have been 6 billion years, we don't know whose day is being referenced as there was no earth and different planets have different lengths for their day. I point out that a day to God is as if it were 3,000 years to man (a bible verse).

Both science and religion are attempts to understand where we came from and neither has a perfect vision because both have the same problem. In quantum physics we have discovered the mere act of observation impacts the outcome of a test, the same is true in religion.

The starting point is a baby step, it is the lynch pin of philosophy. The only thing I can know is that I exist, I experience emotions and can effect those emotions and my actions by thought. Our thoughts determine our actions and actions impact things around us, rocks don't do that and our thoughts are not merely responses to stimuli, though we respond to stimuli, we choose how we respond. Science cannot explain this and neither can psychology, we just know it is true.

reply to post by ColCurious


Oh god! One of those. You would think yourself into a corner. Yes, I heard of them. And you probably paid full price to learn of them. And all this leads to what? A theory. Get back with me when you can "prove" something.

Irrespective your faith, creation is a legitimate belief held by many, children need to be taught it as a view held by many. Not teaching the view of ID is tantamount to ignoring education.

Since when is there a democracy in science? Do we also put 1+1 into vote and teach it is 3 if majority rules so? Science is a dictatorship of scientists. Schools are not supposed to teach public opinion, but opinion of scientists in their relevant fields.

reply to post by AQuestion

And which argument are you referring to? Do you even understand the issue I was raising? It had to do with people having a right to determine what their children are taught rather than the government.

Those who determine what children are taught should be primarily scientists. Not the government, or the parents.

Originally posted by Maslo

Irrespective your faith, creation is a legitimate belief held by many, children need to be taught it as a view held by many. Not teaching the view of ID is tantamount to ignoring education.

Since when is there a democracy in science? Do we also put 1+1 into vote and teach it is 3 if majority rules so? Science is a dictatorship of scientists. Schools are not supposed to teach public opinion, but opinion of scientists in their relevant fields.

reply to post by AQuestion

 

And which argument are you referring to? Do you even understand the issue I was raising? It had to do with people having a right to determine what their children are taught rather than the government.

Those who determine what children are taught should be primarily scientists. Not the government, or the parents.

Who taught you about creation, was that valid of them.
If you dont know about creation your argument against creation is stupid and baseless, surely.

Common sense not big on the agenda where you are?

And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more.
You embarrass yourself

reply to post by borntowatch

Who taught you about creation, was that valid of them. If you dont know about creation your argument against creation is stupid and baseless, surely.

My argument is not against creation. My argument is against teaching opinions of parents or politicians in classroom.

Common sense not big on the agenda where you are?

Common sense? Common sense says that schools are to teach the opinion of scientists. Not parents or politicians. You may as well teach astrology or alchemy, lol. And you talk about common sense..

And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more. You embarrass yourself

What does this have to do with the topic? Thats outside the scope of science.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Who taught you about creation, was that valid of them. If you dont know about creation your argument against creation is stupid and baseless, surely.

My argument is not against creation. My argument is against teaching opinions of parents or politicians in classroom.

Common sense not big on the agenda where you are?

Common sense? Common sense says that schools are to teach the opinion of scientists. Not parents or politicians. You may as well teach astrology or alchemy, lol. And you talk about common sense..

And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more. You embarrass yourself

What does this have to do with the topic? Thats outside the scope of science.

edit on 6/8/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

What does this have to do with the topic indeed? You say your argument is not against creation, well whats this thread about then. I think all this thinking has confused you.

As a creationist I find it very important my children understand and are taught evolution, so they can see how pathetic it is and can argue with atheists if they choose.
If the average atheist doesnt know creation how can they....dont worry you do what you want...good luck with that...

Ignorance is a virtue amongst the ignorant

Originally posted by sempul
But its ok to teach evolutionism even though there is NO proof and even Darwin did not believe in it?

I'd say there is a hell of a lot more proof for Evolution then there ever was and most likely will ever be for creationism. I'm with Southern Guardian on this, NO religious beliefs should EVER be taught in public schools. If you want your children to learn creation as our origin teach them yourselves or put them in a religious private school. Don't force your garbage down other people's throats.

reply to post by murphy22

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by ColCurious

 

Yes, I heard of them. [objective evidence, the scientific method and peer review][...]
And all this leads to what? A theory. Get back with me when you can "prove" something.

So you've heard of them, but you never understood the meaning / concept of it, nor are you up to date on the topic of evolution.

You practically just admitted defeat.

Take care.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Personally, I believe a combination of the two is the actual case and they've never been mutually exclusive in my mind. Being so touchy about it being taught at all though is as bad as the fundamentalists going ape when evolution is included. They probably ought to both be covered for kids to be taught critical thinking in making their own mind.

Yes, why not include both theories and let the kids do their own compare and contrast papers. The seculars definitely will not allow such a thing to occur as they are Totalitarians and want their theories taught exclusively.

Originally posted by Procession101

Originally posted by sempul
But its ok to teach evolutionism even though there is NO proof and even Darwin did not believe in it?

I'd say there is a hell of a lot more proof for Evolution then there ever was and most likely will ever be for creationism. I'm with Southern Guardian on this, NO religious beliefs should EVER be taught in public schools. If you want your children to learn creation as our origin teach them yourselves or put them in a religious private school. Don't force your garbage down other people's throats.

edit on 6-8-2012 by Procession101 because: (no reason given)

Then you should be demanding all traces of secular humanism be removed from school curricula, as even the humanists declared it to be a faith and religion until they were challenged in a court of law, then suddenly they decided to pretend they are not a religious cult.

reply to post by AQuestion

As for the bad religious claims, there are some who claim the earth is however many thousand years old. I ask them how long the first day was. The answer is we don't know, it could have been 6 billion years, we don't know whose day is being referenced as there was no earth and different planets have different lengths for their day. I point out that a day to God is as if it were 3,000 years to man (a bible verse).

I have been pointing out a while now that a day in the life of Brahma is a mere 4,320,000,000 solar years.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Big Bang, abiogenesis and biological evolution cant be considered legitimate either then. Its a fairytale as well.
It is completely illogical and contrary to anything science has found. No basis for any and no evidence.
Seriously a Big Bang, there was nothing then everything. Thats a fairytale
Abiogenesis, no life then dust and water make life...come on thats ludicrous.
No energy then from nothing we have energy. What magic caused energy??? Thats a fairytale.
Evolution is not repeatable observable or testable. A fly turning in to a fly is not evolution.


Evolution is a stupid premise that atheists and some religious people believe without evidence, so why do we have to suffer that inane doctrine of science. I accept people believe that evolution is posssible so I believe it should be taught in school. Your arrogance opposes any one who chooses another belief, your arrogance denies others choice. You are a dictator, a fundamental extremist.

Common sense is not elusive.

Biological evolution has been proven so...
sorry reality is not what you wanted it to be.

Originally posted by borntowatch
And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more.
You embarrass yourself

edit on 6-8-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

And uhm, why would your kids need to learn any of those things in a class at school?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Yes, why not include both theories and let the kids do their own compare and contrast papers. The seculars definitely will not allow such a thing to occur as they are Totalitarians and want their theories taught exclusively.

Science is no democracy, so yes, there is nothing wrong with being a totalitarian in this case, just as there is no democracy when it comes to 1+1. In school, you can contrast and let kids decide when there is no scientific consensus. When there is, the only thing you can do is to relay this information to children.

Schools teaching the opinion of scientists is called education. Schools teaching the opinion of parents or politicians is called indoctrination.

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by borntowatch
And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more.
You embarrass yourself

edit on 6-8-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

And uhm, why would your kids need to learn any of those things in a class at school?

Indeed why would they, they certainly dont espouse evolutions survival of the fittest attitude.

They need to learn those aspects of life so they can fit in with the community of school, no wonder your country has turned to crap if basic manners are not taught

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by borntowatch
And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more.
You embarrass yourself

edit on 6-8-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

And uhm, why would your kids need to learn any of those things in a class at school?

Indeed why would they, they certainly dont espouse evolutions survival of the fittest attitude.

They need to learn those aspects of life so they can fit in with the community of school, no wonder your country has turned to crap if basic manners are not taught

I learned those things at home, from my family.
What class do you take to learn those things in your country?

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by borntowatch
And uhm, how does science teach love and compassion, morals, fairness and hope. There is more.
You embarrass yourself

edit on 6-8-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

And uhm, why would your kids need to learn any of those things in a class at school?

Indeed why would they, they certainly dont espouse evolutions survival of the fittest attitude.

They need to learn those aspects of life so they can fit in with the community of school, no wonder your country has turned to crap if basic manners are not taught

I learned those things at home, from my family.
What class do you take to learn those things in your country?

You dont, and like your country mine is not safe any more either.
Science is not life, its not living and its not community.


Wake up.

Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by cconn487
Why do adults bribe their children with stories of a fat man bringing them gifts down the chimney once every year only if they behave? If you can get a child to believe that, you can get a child to believe anything. Just because a teacher or parent tells their child something does not make it 100% fact. It is based on what they were taught. Who knows maybe they were taught wrong.

So you think any and all education for children is wrong and should all be done away with?

Nobody knows the facts on issues like this. I'm not saying I know the answers, I truly believe nobody knows a fraction of what they think they know. Myself included.

I know the facts on issues like this. That fairy tale about a god magically making everything has never been found to have any evidence or scientific backing whatsoever. That is a fact.

But so what? What is your point? Because children are gullible, they should be taught different things at different schools? I do not get your point about children being gullible here.

No not all education is wrong. I didn't say that. Children aren't gullible, they are impressionable. Teach how to think, not what to think is more along of the lines i'm on.

And sorry but you do not know the facts. Your own personal facts sure. Thanks for proving my point. What is the difference between a god creating everything and a big bang type situation or a god particle creating everything?

I could say god used evolution as a stepping stone to get the human beings we are today. I can say its a fact, nobody can disprove it. And again we go on the hamster wheel where we just have to realize every person is different, we don't think the same, we don't have the same thoughts or experiences, and each person comes to their own conclusions.

BTW i am not religious in any way. I may be a man of faith, but it has nothing to do with holy books, old bearded guys in the sky watching and passing judgement on everybody, or anything like that.