K.I.S.S., page 1

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Topic started on 3-8-2012 @ 04:58 PM by Doalrite

When in the navy this was the motto Keep It Simple Stupid

So when it comes to taxes, laws, government, elected officals, gun control, citizens ...... you wonder why its so complicated?

Its so you the average citizen cannot change a thing.

So here is the solution, keep in mind nothing is perfect. We may never reach perfection however we should just keep it simple.

Taxes,

First FLAT TAX... everyone pays the same percentage out of their income. Simple and Fair.

Next.. each citizen should pay taxes only to the state they live in... then the state should pay the Federal Government... wow chain of command.. taxes flow UP instead of trickling down.

Then each state will be inclined to try and make each citizen as profitiable as possible.

Laws,

States should be able to pass any laws they want individually, as long as they aren't UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

The Federal Government should only be the watchdogs for the people making sure that laws are Constitutional.

This in turn with the taxes would make states pass laws that would attract citizens they think would bring in revenue for said state. It would also allow for diversity among states and people and diversity breeds competition and competition breeds greatness.

Government,

As with the military there should be a chain of command followed and with the previous actions in place the people would have more sayso and pull with elected officals because those elected officals know if they don't take care of there citizens they would be out the door.

Also with the taxes being done the way I suggest it would bring a fair and equal government jobs to the state compared to citizens living in each state. We would shrink the size of government in Washington D.C. by spreading those jobs out across the states. Which in turn would bring more revenue to each state.

Elected Officals,

This is an easy one. TERM LIMITS.

Also there should be harder laws on lying, cheating, and stealing with these positions, just as in the military.

Gun control and Citizens,

In my opinion these go hand in hand and I'm sure not many people will like what I have to say.

I think that all American Citizens should have to serve 2 years in the military in postions that keep them in the States. Never should those kids 18-20 ever serve over seas. During those two years everyone should be trained on how to defend themselves with hand to hand combat and also trained in pistol and rifle use.

Then upon ending the two year service to America they could be given the option to re-enlist at a decent rank with the understanding on what they are getting into and where they want to go. Those who don't rejoin will have the option of retaining their gun permits.

This would make our armed forces stronger because those who stay will have stayed because they love it.

It would stregthen our citizens by giving them life experiences and teaching them how to defend themselves.

This isn't perfect I know... I stated that at the beginning, however I think it is a good start for a good discussion.

If you want to be critical please do but keep it polite or be reported. Please build this idea into something good.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:10 PM by caladonea

reply to post by Doalrite

I think many of the ideas you have stated would work and most likely be a lot simpler. However...I have serious doubts they may happen. TPTB (in my opinion) thrive on confusion and chaos...they want to keep dumping down the common people;so they are easier to manipulate.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:13 PM by searching411

You should include that our government officials should be held responsible/accountable for their actions. We put our trust in them when they were voted into office. If they pass laws that harm the country/individuals, put money in their pockets, use insider trading secrets, get kick backs, break the law (any law) . . ., then the person should be held to swift justice and have no protection from their buddies. They should loose all their ill gotten goods/houses/vacation homes/boats/planes/freedom. And if the confiscation does not zero out the balance stole, then put them in a chain gang until society has been repaid. The same rules/laws should apply to all regardless of government position.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:15 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by Doalrite

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your ideas would never work.
Waaayyy too much common sense and not enough death involved.
/sarcasm

S&F

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:16 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Doalrite

I think many of the ideas you have stated would work and most likely be a lot simpler. However...I have serious doubts they may happen. TPTB (in my opinion) thrive on confusion and chaos...they want to keep dumping down the common people;so they are easier to manipulate.

Of course they wouldn't impliment these ideas. Your right just like I stated they want us not to be able to create change at all.

Unfortunately with the system we have our society will stagnate as it looks towards washington for answers when they should really look towards themselves

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:18 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by searching411
You should include that our government officials should be held responsible/accountable for their actions. We put our trust in them when they were voted into office. If they pass laws that harm the country/individuals, put money in their pockets, use insider trading secrets, get kick backs, break the law (any law) . . ., then the person should be held to swift justice and have no protection from their buddies. They should loose all their ill gotten goods/houses/vacation homes/boats/planes/freedom. And if the confiscation does not zero out the balance stole, then put them in a chain gang until society has been repaid. The same rules/laws should apply to all regardless of government position.

This is why there should be a lying cheating and stealing laws.....

Example: Any Offical for the United States of America found lying, cheating, or stealing from Americans shall be as well as any of their family members, be banned from serving in any offical postion and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and serve detention in a military prison.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:24 PM by crawdad1914

reply to post by Doalrite

Agree with most of that. Do not agree with the mandatory military service.

Good common sense ideas mostly!

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:33 PM by Meaningless

Or we can forcefully crack out of our ignorance and overthrow the governments who continue to destroy our lives and the planet. There's no #ing way I'm agreeing to a tweaked/modified system. Gotta learn that it doesn't matter what we do with governments or the feds, it'll always be corrupted. Best to just get rid of them so we can have our real freedoms back. Start living in peace and all that good stuff instead of worrying where our government will start the next war just to die for them. If we keep governments they'll only get worse over time as well as stronger. I mean have you see what they have in their arsenal now? Just so they can wipe civilization clean again.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:34 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by crawdad1914
reply to post by Doalrite

Agree with most of that. Do not agree with the mandatory military service.

Good common sense ideas mostly!

When i was younger I didn't agree with the military service.. however I think that getting most spoiled kids out of their mothers home and give them an opportunity to work and grow themselves would be good. Also I believe everyone should know how to use a gun even if they don't like them. I also don't think that the military service should be like standard service now... more of a service to the country. It would help people grow.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 05:37 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by Meaningless
Or we can forcefully crack out of our ignorance and overthrow the governments who continue to destroy our lives and the planet. There's no #ing way I'm agreeing to a tweaked/modified system. Gotta learn that it doesn't matter what we do with governments or the feds, it'll always be corrupted. Best to just get rid of them so we can have our real freedoms back. Start living in peace and all that good stuff instead of worrying where our government will start the next war just to die for them. If we keep governments they'll only get worse over time as well as stronger. I mean have you see what they have in their arsenal now? Just so they can wipe civilization clean again.

If we kick everyone out and put new people in following the same rules we will get the same results.

Yes I believe they will kill americans before giving up power. I think they already are, this is why we are in so many wars, keep our boys tired, kill our honorable.

Yes I believe we need revolution, but what after that... what will you have.. what do you want.

I want the constitution, freedom, and peace

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 06:35 PM by Meaningless

If you have a set of rules or a system for people to follow, there will be corruption. We will follow the law, while they hide behind it. Sooner or later corruption takes the top and our lives make a 180 degree turn for the worse. Almost everything we are told is lie meant to confuse and have us fight over each other while the governments put forth another set of plans such as toppling a peaceful nation that might stand in their way once they try to take total control over us. My whole point, any type or kind of government will ALWAYS end up turning against its people. It's the control they have and the possibilities there are. Our problem is most of us follow the law of 'god' while they don't, so we have all this bull # in this world that they cleverly had it tied to some demon only because you wouldn't fight a demon, especially one you cannot see. We are truly ignorant and weak at this point in history, but that doesn't mean we aren't able to fight for what is right.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 07:24 PM by Doalrite

reply to post by Meaningless

i understand what you are saying. Yet you arent addressing the issue. I said nothing will ever be perfect, so we agree.

However I believe by having the chain of command with government and states run themselves and collect their own taxes our government will actually be defined as the UNITED STATES...

So this is why I think we need to simplify our system. Keep it simple and it makes it harder to cheat.

Make cheating lying or stealing so offensive that who ever does will be prosecuted and even their family will be banned from politics.. well people would be alot more careful. No more bushs, clintons, ect.

I don't follow "god" because I am not religous, that doesn't mean I want corruption. Nor does it mean that I am not reasonable.

Religion doesn't mean common sense...

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 07:27 PM by prisoneronashipoffools

Interesting thread Op.

I find it kind of interesting though, that you claim to believe in the constitution and make a point of laws being CONSTITUTIONAL and then later in your opening post suggest VIOLATING the constitution by embellishing the right to bear arms; adding a mandatory military service requirement for citizens to keep one of their inalienable constitutional rights. Isn't that kind of a disconnect? You either believe the citizens rights should not be en fringed or that they should and if you do then it kind of undercuts your argument that laws should be constitutional. No?

In any case I would say it illustrates one of the reasons why the federal government no longer follows the constitution really, because even those who claim to understand it and defend it, still violate it when it serves their beliefs and purposes.

Just my opinion though.

edit on 3-8-2012 by prisoneronashipoffools because: punctuation correction

edit on 3-8-2012 by prisoneronashipoffools because: typo

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 07:45 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by prisoneronashipoffools
Interesting thread Op.

I find it kind of interesting though, that you claim to believe in the constitution and make a point of laws being CONSTITUTIONAL and then later in your opening post suggest VIOLATING the constitution by embellishing the right to bear arms; adding a mandatory military service requirement for citizens to keep one of their inalienable constitutional rights. Isn't that kind of a disconnect? You either believe the citizens rights should not be en fringed or that they should and if you do then it kind of undercuts your argument that laws should be constitutional. No?

In any case I would say it illustrates one of the reasons why the federal government no longer follows the constitution really, because even those who claim to understand it and defend it, still violate it when it serves their beliefs and purposes.

Just my opinion though.
edit on 3-8-2012 by prisoneronashipoffools because: punctuation correction
edit on 3-8-2012 by prisoneronashipoffools because: typo

Nice post sir, actually I don't want to make it a requirement to own a gun to go to the service. However I am of the opinion that ALL people should be trained in combat hand to hand and with weapons. I know my OPINION of this will make people argue... but i do think that it would be good for america and its citizens.. If you disagree please give me some talking points as to why.

Ok say by Citizens going to to service for their state for two years... military service is really just a job. So it would give people a job. Filing paper, cleaning floors.. just out of their mothers house on their own. Providing service for their country and states.. giving them respect for whats around them.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 09:26 PM by prisoneronashipoffools

reply to post by Doalrite

Nice post sir, actually I don't want to make it a requirement to own a gun to go to the service. However I am of the opinion that ALL people should be trained in combat hand to hand and with weapons. I know my OPINION of this will make people argue... but i do think that it would be good for america and its citizens.. If you disagree please give me some talking points as to why. Ok say by Citizens going to to service for their state for two years... military service is really just a job. So it would give people a job. Filing paper, cleaning floors.. just out of their mothers house on their own. Providing service for their country and states.. giving them respect for whats around them.

The impression I got was that you were suggesting that the service would be a requirement for owning firearms, but since you have said it wasn't your intent, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

As far as the idea of mandatory military conscription; even if it is non combat conscription, unfortunately I still can not agree with, though I think you do offer a few good points and ideas. Mainly that citizens could use some hand to hand combat training, arms training and even a bit of discipline and learning to work together as a well regulated unit.

Though, I do not think citizens should be forced to serve in the military, for a couple of reasons. For one, I don't think people should be forced to go against their beliefs, some people are pacifists and whether one agrees with them or not I just don't believe that people should be forced to compromise their beliefs by law. Second, though many people think that the military can iron out the rough edges of anyone, there are some people who can not cope with and should not be part of the highly stressful, regimented and controlled environment of the military. Even now there are some people who wash out of basic training and are sent back home and it's probably a good thing. If you begin to force everyone to serve in the military I think we might find that it could create a great deal of problems down the road even if it is only a small minority of people that can't cope and crack under the pressure so to speak.

Another problem; I have with forced conscription especially at the national level using the military, is cost. As you pointed out it would be like offering a job to people, the problem is you have to pay the people for the job and since the military doesn't produce any products or money of it's own that all comes from the tax payers pockets. I would be interested in how much a national forced conscription would increase the already massive military spending budget.

Now, having said that I would agree that many citizens could benefit with some minor military training, but I would differ in the way that I would implement such a plan.

First, I would rather see it be on a community level basis rather then a national one. More in the form of a local community militia, answering directly to the mayor and city council of the community.

Second, I still think it should be voluntary in nature, but maybe a local incentive could be offered for service in the militia, such as maybe a minor property tax cut for service. In exchange the citizens would much like the national guard give up some of their time for periodic and routine training.

Then, veterans and military officers of the community could pass on their skills to the fellow citizens and in exchange the citizens will have a force that can protect their community in a worse case scenario; riots and invasion, and would even have a well trained force that could be mobilized for peaceful reasons in the event of local natural disasters and etc.

Just my opinion though.

Anyway, thank you OP for your time and response.

*Addition*

I would also like to add that if it is organized on a community rather then a national or state level it would even have the added benefit of strengthening ties between and the sense of community in general, which does seem to be slowly vanishing in the modern high tech, net connected age*

edit on 3-8-2012 by prisoneronashipoffools because: addition

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 09:37 PM by Doalrite

Originally posted by prisoneronashipoffools
reply to post by Doalrite

The impression I got was that you were suggesting that the service would be a requirement for owning firearms, but since you have said it wasn't your intent, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

As far as the idea of mandatory military conscription; even if it is non combat conscription, unfortunately I still can not agree with, though I think you do offer a few good points and ideas. Mainly that citizens could use some hand to hand combat training, arms training and even a bit of discipline and learning to work together as a well regulated unit.

Though, I do not think citizens should be forced to serve in the military, for a couple of reasons. For one, I don't think people should be forced to go against their beliefs, some people are pacifists and whether one agrees with them or not I just don't believe that people should be forced to compromise their beliefs by law. Second, though many people think that the military can iron out the rough edges of anyone, there are some people who can not cope with and should not be part of the highly stressful, regimented and controlled environment of the military. Even now there are some people who wash out of basic training and are sent back home and it's probably a good thing. If you begin to force everyone to serve in the military I think we might find that it could create a great deal of problems down the road even if it is only a small minority of people that can't cope and crack under the pressure so to speak.

Another problem; I have with forced conscription especially at the national level using the military, is cost. As you pointed out it would be like offering a job to people, the problem is you have to pay the people for the job and since the military doesn't produce any products or money of it's own that all comes from the tax payers pockets. I would be interested in how much a national forced conscription would increase the already massive military spending budget.

Now, having said that I would agree that many citizens could benefit with some minor military training, but I would differ in the way that I would implement such a plan.

First, I would rather see it be on a community level basis rather then a national one. More in the form of a local community militia, answering directly to the mayor and city council of the community.

Second, I still think it should be voluntary in nature, but maybe a local incentive could be offered for service in the militia, such as maybe a minor property tax cut for service. In exchange the citizens would much like the national guard give up some of their time for periodic and routine training.

Then, veterans and military officers of the community could pass on their skills to the fellow citizens and in exchange the citizens will have a force that can protect their community in a worse case scenario; riots and invasion, and would even have a well trained force that could be mobilized for peaceful reasons in the event of local natural disasters and etc.

Just my opinion though.

Anyway, thank you OP for your time and response.

Very well put.. I can agree with this. Service on the state level would work well. Of course the pay wouldn't be very good and those people would serve the community, live in dorms which are cheap and there are plenty of shut down bases that would work. Service would produce money, whether those people helped out in emergency stituations or other like problems. They would be able to train in certain options and upon coming out have many benifits whether obtain cheap health insurrance, car insurrance and be able to obtain jobs easier because of the experience.

Like I said before this is just a small idea in my head that isn't concrete. You have helped expand my ideas and for that I say thanks.

Lets say the majority of people see that this program would help people and get them involved I believe they would take the oportunity.. I joined the navy because I had no other options. I would have rather joined something like we speak of and then if I had enlisted I would have had a better idea of what i wanted.

However I believe that the other changes I suggested would have to take place first before this would work.

reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:04 PM by cenpuppie

Bravo! The best system is always the simplest, heh.

I do agree with the military service. But that's just me.

reply posted on 4-8-2012 @ 01:06 PM by Doalrite

I think getting people educated and motivated would be the main purpose of a two year service to your state or country. Also training them on how to defend and protect themselves and others..

I think the crime rate would drop and we would save money.

I think it is very important though on the tax issue that our taxes trickle up instead of trickle down. Just like a chain of command and when the taxes get to the top the federal government keeps it all and can balance its budget. If it runs out of money... well it runs out of money.

Never should there be any agency or buisness or bank that is to big to fail.

Let it fail and other better operations will take its place.

By allowing states to focus on money and its citizens successful states will be those with programs that work and that take care of each citizen. Each state would try and make it as easy as possible for business's to prosper.

The whole system is doomed to fail the way we are running it. It bothers me that the Mainstream Media follows along with the role they are given to pump out crap and drama. I think that it is funny I find more interesting things from this website and would love to see a cable tv show called ATS.

reply posted on 4-8-2012 @ 04:50 PM by Doalrite

I also find the fact that people would rather talk about mundane unimportant things rather than talk about things that would actually benifit everyone.

We need diversity. That is why it is a good thing people think differently.

We as american citizens have the right to move anytime we want and it is quite easy to do so. That is why I believe in states rights to pass whatever law the citizens want.

reply posted on 4-8-2012 @ 05:25 PM by links234

Originally posted by Doalrite
I also find the fact that people would rather talk about mundane unimportant things rather than talk about things that would actually benifit everyone.

Your 'simple' ideas would only benefit a few. I take issue with a number of your solutions but as someone earlier mentioned...you seem to want to adhere to the constitution until it gets in your way.

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