America On Verge Of Communist Takeover, Says Former Castro Revolutionary

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by AntiNWO

Originally posted by beezzer
Earlier in this thread I asked "how" something like this could occur.

I think I found an answer.

In order to enact martial law and have a ruler versus a president WHILE having the populace embrace the idea is this.

Destroy the power grid.

You may be onto something there. And consider this: They could blame the outage on "cyber-terrorism" and take control of the internet at the same time.

As conspiracies go, I'd have to put this one in the "plausable" category.

In fact, Obama may be in the "set up" mode already....

Senate Republicans recently blocked cybersecurity legislation, but the issue might not be dead after all.

The White House hasn't ruled out issuing an executive order to strengthen the nation's defenses against cyber attacks if Congress refuses to act.

“In the wake of Congressional inaction and Republican stall tactics, unfortunately, we will continue to be hamstrung by outdated and inadequate statutory authorities that the legislation would have fixed," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said in an emailed response to whether the president is considering a cybersecurity order....

After defeat of Senate cybersecurity bill, Obama weighs executive-order option

He will blame the "incident" on his "enemies" as usual.

I'm confused. While Cyber Security may infringe upon our personal freedoms.. It isn't inherently communist or socialist. And it isn't any more facist than... Well, things that -most- presidents do. Remember reopening GITMO and getting caught wire-tapping by the British Royal Family thanks to Donald Rumsfeld?

“We need to counter the shockwave of the evildoer by having individual rate cuts accelerated and by thinking about tax rebates.” —Washington, DC, Oct. 4, 2001

Blaming enemies for... having... tax... cuts...?

Originally posted by HairlessApe
To use the government to decide who has what job would be socialist.

No it wouldn't. Socialism is an economic whereby the workers own of the means of production. The workers themselves make the decisions, no state required.

"Anarchism is stateless socialism", Mihail Bakunin

To use your personal feelings to determine who is fit for a job would be facist.

Fascism is a political system that is highly nationalist, but also allows private ownership, capitalism.

What has personal feelings have to do with it?

To go back to the gold standard would follow what all the communist countries are currently doing.

Hmmm, really? What all "communist" countries would that be?

To ask an American to understand these concepts would be insanity.

Hmmm, so where are you from?

reply to post by HairlessApe

When the vote is analyzed I think that a major part of the defeat of the bill will be because of the rider attached that related to high capacity magazines, etc (an infringement on the 2nd Amendment).

reply to post by xuenchen

Well that's all good BUT....

You certainly must know by now that a high percentage of Humans are psychopathic.

What is the grand solution for THAT little problem ?

Yes, I know that. The "grand solution" is "STOP PARTICIPATING"....!!

reply to post by murphy22


Thank you!!! I am speechless....
I try

reply to post by HEYJOSE


You make a good point. The US gov will act in it`s own self interest. It is a `state` after all. Any state must act in it`s own self interest for it`s own survival, which is exactly why there will be elections in America because the people demand that in order for the state to carry on. The US gov. does not want to create any type of revolution for the purpose of increasing their power over the people. A state backed revolution will backfire in the US because Americans are already really angry with the direction of the state. If the US gov attempted an all out state backed revolution from within the United States no branch of the gov would be able to control it. Not the FBI, CIA, US military or even the legislators. It would cause a breakdown of the government and the society. It would be risking way too much. It makes better sense to carry out a power grab slowly though the use of buying off politicians and creating a disconnected between the people and the government. Increasing the size of state control departments is also a more wise move. The state must maintain itself so full blown state backed revolution would be suicide. The American people are ripe for revolution at a time when distrust of government is very high. There will be a strong counter-revolution to any state backed revolution in America.

This former general from Cuba is at best a socialist revisionist who wants to spread the `Red Scare` for the purpose of preventing any socialist movement from gaining ground in the US. A socialist revolution, coming directly from the people, can end up going in many different directions as this Cuban man is well aware of. It is clear to see his agenda. He wants to spread the so-called red scare to promote the capitalist agenda and prevent socialist from having more of a voice in the American political discussion.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by HairlessApe
To use the government to decide who has what job would be socialist.

No it wouldn't. Socialism is an economic whereby the workers own of the means of production. The workers themselves make the decisions, no state required.

"Anarchism is stateless socialism", Mihail Bakunin

To use your personal feelings to determine who is fit for a job would be facist.

Fascism is a political system that is highly nationalist, but also allows private ownership, capitalism.

What has personal feelings have to do with it?

To go back to the gold standard would follow what all the communist countries are currently doing.

Hmmm, really? What all "communist" countries would that be?

To ask an American to understand these concepts would be insanity.

Hmmm, so where are you from?

edit on 8/5/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to take the time to re-quote everything, but I will point of the obvious fallacies in your logic.

Socialism.. Or "Social ownership".. may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.

Common misconception, while socialism gives it's citizens "ownership" of the state, a state (more commonly than not) still exists, and makes executive decisions. You realize Canada is socialist, right? The only socialism in which the citizens truly own 100% of the state is one that exists in theory.

To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration

Fascism is more of an ideology than a political system. It backs certain political systems, and manipulates them, but it is not one on it's own. It requires a form of capitalism to function, because fascism is the use of wealth to perpetuate personal beliefs.

China's grab for gold is accelerating at a rapid pace, and it's raising questions about the country's ultimate intentions. China consumed 175.2 tons of gold in the fourth-quarter of 2010, bringing its grand total for the year to 579.5 tons, or 18.5 million ounces, according to the World Gold Council. That's a lot of gold. The U.S., in comparison, consumed 233.3 tons in 2010. It's unknown how much of that gold was consumed by citizens or its central bank, but the question still remains: What will China do with all that gold? There is a controversial theory percolating in the gold community that China wants the yuan to become the world's reserve currency and is buying gold and silver in order to make it happen.

Arkady Dvorkevich, the Kremlin's chief economic adviser, said Russia would favour the inclusion of gold bullion in the basket-weighting of a new world currency based on Special Drawing Rights issued by the International Monetary Fund. Chinese and Russian leaders both plan to open debate on an SDR-based reserve currency as an alternative to the US dollar at the G20 summit in London this week, although the world may not yet be ready for such a radical proposal. Mr Dvorkevich said it was "logical" that the new currency should include the rouble and the yuan, adding that "we could also think about more effective use of gold in this system". The Gold Standard was the anchor of world finance in the 19th Century but began breaking down during the First World War as governments engaged in unprecedented spending. It collapsed in the 1930s when the British Empire, the US, and France all abandoned their parities. It was revived as part of fixed dollar system until US inflation caused by the Vietnam War and "Great Society" social spending forced President Richard Nixon to close the gold window in 1971.

Which countries? China and Russia, mainly. And if we followed them back to the gold standard, we'd be in a big thick heap of "uh-oh."

For the record, I'm American. It's just hard to find peers that utilize critical thinking. Not impossible, just hard.

reply to post by ANOK


just to correct you on one thing...Fascism can exist in ANY form....it is extremism....

A democracy can be Fascist.......it is the interpretation of law and obligation that can be Fascist...

like NO SMOKING.....NO SKATE BOARDING......NO LITTERING.....NO TRANS FATS....ect....

those are forms of Fascism...

Just to add, Hitler was a naturalist...a military hippie...mother earth and all that. that´s where that came from FYI.


EDIT:
HairlessApe I didnt see your post...I agree, you are correct.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

the truth of what happens to EVERY country which has completely embraced socialism/communism.

Communism has never completely been embraced anywhere (the same is valid to capitalism). As for socialism, it is hard to say it is such a mixed bag that we could say that it has especially in northern Europe and it has been working great for them (see Sweden, Denmark, etc...)

reply to post by TechUnique

whats up with those Chinese trade zones?

Those are pretty standard, a sign of decline but standard. You should worry more about the Chinese takeover and buildup of deep sea ports...

reply to post by BIHOTZ


Ain't no thing.

Your definition of fascism goes into a bit more detail than mine, plus I like your examples. And obviously I agree that you are correct as well.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by SG-17
If this is true (and I severely doubt it) I would have to say ABOUT DAMN TIME.

I see, so you are one of them who has accepted the indoctrination fully... nice knowing you...

BTW, if you like socialism/communism so much why haven't you moved to a country that has fully embraced it instead of wanting another nation to fall into another leftwinger dictatorship?...

edit on 3-8-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I would rather have socialism then what America is heading for which is nationalism and fascism!
Any time commerce is in the hands of the few or in the hands of the government is not good for the people!
This is not like saying i am a communist but i do believe that stateless communism is a better system then what we have now! This is what's also known as a resource based economy and Would still have to be democratically run! This system would still have the same freedoms and laws which we have now only they would not be subjuct to status like today! Everyone as an equal just like it should be!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

It seems our man in Cuba is onto something. Socialism does make a strong comeback after a steady uninterrupted run of Corporatism and old style Fascism.The United States is at just such a point. Don't get me wrong I'm no commie, but neither am I an unabashed member of the opposite edge hugging folks who say," give me a right to money, and I'll have it. I'll have all of it please.". We here in America, are somewhat blessed in knowing that a well organized working for a living sort of society can work out very well for a large majority. and we seem to understand that a complete turn to a " from each according to their ability and to each according to their need." hasn't proved to work very well. What worries me is that we seem to forget the pitfalls of, and the hardships suffered by the many under the equally extreme opposite. Somewhere in here, there is always a vastly superior center. Being wholly committed to a position does not allow a person to consider the possibility ,of another position, having any legitimacy Want a better world? It's out there.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
If anyone can make communism work it would be America.

I think we need to take the best from all isms and create a new system that caters to all not just the elite.

Heh. Well now that is just stupid. You think communism doesn't cater to an elite group? That is all it does. It takes from the entire populace, leaving them in squalor, while the elite party leaders take everything for themselves.

That is communism.

Sheesh.

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


Socialism is a revolution from capitalism. Capitalism---Socialism---Communism
I think America is somewhere in between capitalism and socialism. It is very clear that capitalist in American do not want the nation to move towards more socialism than what America has today. A hardcore capitalist does not any socialism because the days of using capital to control others and gain power would be over. So, we have a split in the USA. Those with massive wealth and power hate the idea of not being able to hold onto power using money. Those who work hard each and everyday, only to see the benefits of their labor go towards a small elite class of capitalist want to reduce the power of having capital gives. It seems America is using the `Third Way` model which brings with a lot set of problems a lot of people are not fully aware of yet. Although, G.W. did a lot to ruin the benefits of the Third Way model.

reply to post by ANOK


Fine. China is statism par excellence.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by ANOK

 

Fine. China is statism par excellence.

And I believe our common ground would be the mistrust of the state.

Yet the state is a necessary part of capitalism, why supporters of it can't see that, or try to deny that, I don't understand.

But regardless, whether it is the state, or property owners, you are a slave to their system. The state is a product of the economic system it has. The state system we have has been molded by capitalism to serve its interests, the interests of the people come second, and only when demanded.

The only way to have a stateless system is with worker ownership. That way one class of people can not gain political power through economic power. If all those that work have access to the machinery to do their work, no one can deny them it's use thus creating artificial scarcity in order to control markets and peoples lives.

Capitalism simply can not work without a state system, who would protect capital? How would they keep the masses ignorant and supporting their own exploitation? Socialism can work without a state system...

Argument: Socialism Has Shown Itself to be Very Efficient

A prime example of this is the Spanish Revolution. Information and explanations are given on the Spanish revolution in the argument (and argument page) socialism has greatly improved societies (in the history section) and information on how socialism in the Spanish revolution not only brought prosperity and improvement of life to the Spanish people, but also economic efficiency is given. To take a few examples, In socialist Aragon, in which 70% if the rural population had voluntarily collectivised (the rest had chosen not to and were given the freedom to do so), productivity rose 20% during the time of the revolution. According to Dave Markland "agricultural production and deliveries were strongest in the anarchist [socialist] areas" of Spain...

Argument: Socialism Has Shown Itself to be Very Efficient

FOR WORKERS around the world, the Spanish Civil War was a beacon of hope against the tide of reaction then sweeping Europe. As the promise of workers’ revolution was being dashed by the rise of fascism in Germany and the rise of Stalinism in the Soviet Union, the workers of Spain led a heroic fight against the 1936 uprising of General Francisco Franco. In the process, they led not only a struggle against fascism, but also a workers’ rebellion that gave the world an inspiring glimpse of what workers’ power could look like...

Anarchists in the Spanish Civil War

Remember there was also the civil war they were dealing with. Both Hitler and Mussolini were supporting Franco militarily. The first time the Stuka was used in combat.

Condor Legion Stukas over Spain 1939...

The Condor Legion (German: Legion Condor) was a unit composed of volunteers from the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) and from the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer) which served with the Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War of July 1936 to March 1939. The Condor Legion developed methods of terror bombing which were used widely in the Second World War shortly afterwards.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think if stateless socialism can work during a war, and both increase production and improve peoples lives, it can be done anytime. The only difference between now and then, is then the people new what socialism was and embraced it. That is what the capitalist class fear, an educated revolutionary working class (and by working class that means 80% of you).

We are at a stalemate. If we declare martial law, then the global economy collapses due to chaos in the markets. China and others will demand payment. On the otherhand, if nothing is done then it will all deteriorate so that the US economy will collapse. The only options are world war III or to accept the end of the socioeconomic system. Martial law will not be able to be maintained in any case. They neeed a third party excuse to blame but will never find it, for they have lost.

However this collapse was not unplanned, they knew and like the rats they are, will hide in the darkness of their underground shelters when the event occurs. These shelters will be their tombs. What is the event, I wish i knew, but it is more important to know when... November 23, 2013; but those who experience this will be allready dead and not know it.

The real event will occur without warning appearing as three days of darkness sometime between September 14 2012 and December 27 2012. After this event 95% of earth's human population will be gone and the earth will be changed in an undescribable way. A psychic friend of mine saw what happened during that time and ended up in a mental hospital. He would not tell me exactly what he saw, but was noticibly changed, like he lost all hope.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
The only options are world war III or to accept the end of the socioeconomic system. Martial law will not be able to be maintained in any case.

There is a third option, namely global debt forgiveness. The ancient Greeks and the ancient Hebrews practiced it. That would give everyone a clean slate to start new. Greece has already gotten a partial debt forgiveness and the another one is being discussed already.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
However this collapse was not unplanned, they knew and like the rats they are, will hide in the darkness of their underground shelters when the event occurs. These shelters will be their tombs. What is the event, I wish i knew, but it is more important to know when... November 23, 2013; but those who experience this will be allready dead and not know it.

I doubt that the international capitalist plan such collapses; they just happen mainly because the markets are not regulated enough which leaves a lot of freedom for speculation. I don't think anything special will happen on November 23, 2013. All date predictions for impending doom are futile.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
The real event will occur without warning appearing as three days of darkness sometime between September 14 2012 and December 27 2012. After this event 95% of earth's human population will be gone and the earth will be changed in an undescribable way. A psychic friend of mine saw what happened during that time and ended up in a mental hospital. He would not tell me exactly what he saw, but was noticibly changed, like he lost all hope.

Are you sure he was psychic and not just mentally ill? There are only a few things that can make the earth be blanketed in darkness, like massive volcano activity, asteroid impact, nuclear war. I don't see any of that happen in the near future.

Originally posted by beezzer
Beezzer's Think Tank.

Martial Law has occured. Obama has been made president (pro tem) for the forseeable future. UN soldiers are walking the street. The Army is walking the streets.

All Constitutional freedoms have been suspended.

Now lets walk it backwards.

The people, the huddled masses support it, so the alternative HAS to be worse than Martial Law. 250 million weapons in the hands of Americans are a powerful deterrent. So whatever happened to initiate martial law has to be so bad that even the NRA is supporting it.

What could it be, that would make the people, the Tea Party, the freedom lobbyists support martial law?

edit on 3-8-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

I was once asked by a clueless person, "what on earth do you need an AK for?" My reply was "to keep knot-heads like you from taking it away from me." The same applies to your question - "What could it be, that would make the people, the Tea Party, the freedom lobbyists support martial law?" - the only thing that could be that bad would be the lack of support for such a measure by the People, Tea Party, and the freedom lobbyists. When the Big Dawgs can no longer get their way, they would attempt to force their way.

The prospect of war in the streets scares the bejesus out of the Big Dawgs and most other living things. In other words, the prospect of war in the streets could itself manufacture war in the streets. media manipulation could be used to bring about such an eventuality with a manufactured threat of unrest, turning it into real actions of unrest.

Fear often feeds on itself.